Shirk Amongst the Ummah

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Here’s a question i came about in the ISLAMQA mailing list…

Question :

It is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Shaytaan has despaired of ever being worshipped by the worshippers in the Arabian Peninsula.” In another hadeeth it says: “Night and day will not cease until al-Laat and al-‘Uzza are worshipped.” And in another hadeeth it says: “Until the buttocks of the women of Daws bump into one another going around Dhu’l-Khalasah.” 
My question is: from the first hadeeth it may be understood that no shirk will ever be committed in the Arabian Peninsula. Whereas the second hadeeth indicates that it will be committed.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.  

One of the things that are established by the scholars is that shirk will take place in the ummah as is indicated by the sound texts, and reality confirms this. 

Many of the Arabs apostatized after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and many of them went back to worshipping idols. 

The mujaddid (renewer of the Faith) Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said: “Chapter: Reports that some of this ummah will worship idols”, then he mentioned some ahaadeeth which indicate that.  

With regard to the hadeeth: “The Shaytaan has despaired of ever being worshipped…” the scholars have interpreted it in several ways: 

1 – That the Shaytaan has despaired of ever getting all worshippers to unite on kufr. 

This view was favoured by the great scholar Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali. Al-Darar al-Sunnah, 12/117. 

2 – That this is a report of the despair that befell the Shaytaan when he saw the conquests and how the people entered the religion of Allaah in crowds. So the hadeeth is telling us what the Shaytaan thought and he expected to happen. Then what really happened was something other than that, for a reason decreed by Allaah. 

This view was favoured by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him). Al-Qawl al-Mufeed, 1/211. 

3 – That the Shaytaan despaired of the believers whose faith is complete, because the Shaytaan has no hope that they will worship him. 

This view was favoured by al-Aloosi. See Da’aawa al-Munaawi’een, 224. 

4 – That the “al-” in the word “al-musalloon” (worshippers) refers to a specific group of worshippers, and that what is meant is the Sahaabah. 

All of these interpretations are close in meaning, and the most likely is the second. And Allaah knows best. 

See Ahaadeeth al-‘Aqeedah allati yuwahham Zaahiruha al-Ta’aarud fi’l-Saheehayn, 2/232-238 .

It occured to me that perhaps many of us already fall into the trap of worshipping idols or the shaitan, we follow pop and media stars on an almost religious level and glue ourselves to the TV for our favourite shows.

2

Re: Shirk Amongst the Ummah

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
“Until the buttocks of the women of Daws bump into one another going around Dhu’l-Khalasah.”
[/quote]

is that acceptible language to be attributed to a noble Prophet? do we even need to read further?

it's absurd to think there'll be no one doing shirk in the whole of Arabian peninsula for all times to come.. we don't need to drag the name of our esteemed Prohpet with these kinda sayings attributed to his name.

3

shirk doesnt have to be praying the idols..at times ppl do it unintentionally like some ppl believe going to certain mazaars will heal them etc etc

4

Why can not you openly say that associating religiously to some wali ullah or imam is shirk. Why shall you take hidden route and leave on readers to understand what you mean to say.

Why do not you say using wasella for prayers to be accepted by God is shirk. If this is shirk, in your opinion then please confirm it. Later I would like to comment on definition of your shirk, in detail. Bye sokoon

5

Re: Re: Shirk Amongst the Ummah

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

is that acceptible language to be attributed to a noble Prophet? do we even need to read further?

it's absurd to think there'll be no one doing shirk in the whole of Arabian peninsula for all times to come.. we don't need to drag the name of our esteemed Prohpet with these kinda sayings attributed to his name.
[/QUOTE]

it's sad..really

6

well if you say so,
it is shirk to ask any one who is dead , not even the prophet :saw: can help us from the grave, and asking him is shirk
saying ya muhammad is shirk, saying ya ali madad is shirk
going to graves of saints to ask from them is shirk
beliving in some person other than the rasul :saw: to be the source of ultimate religious guidance is shirk,
any more questions?
may allah protect us from shirk, knowingly or unknowingly

7

Thanda Mazaq,

God himself did not communicated with his creation (US DIRECTLY) at all.What it indicates? how he wants us to communicate with him??? ZARA SOUNCHOU TOU SAHE PLEASE.

If he(GOD) wanted he would have easily communicated with us individually all the time. But he kept a baricade himself between us and him . he selected OUR PROPHETS; all of them as communication wassella, between him and us. Subhan allah sokoon wah wah.

Wasella between us and GOD to communicate, is needed by us also as does our GOD.

So do we use wassella to communicate with GOD, we feel if he had used wassella of mohammed and other prophets to communicate, it means what? we dear not to communicate with him, directly; we use waseella of prophet mohammed and aale mohammed, to communicate with GOD.

All correct astane walley mazars waaley sub kay sub aahlal baeit e rasoul hein, Chhei Ali houn ya, shah abdul Qadir jelani houn ya kouei bei jalil ul qadar houn. Sub ka sub, karamat walay thay or sub shaheed hein or shaheed zinda hein.hum say(GOD SAY) rizq milta hei un kou mat pounchou hum un kou rizq key say pouchatey hein. ( FRom QURAN about shaheed),

Bacha doud mangta hei ma say etc etc khuda khud peat pahr sakta tha. magar ous ney ma kou pap kou wasella chunna.

Wassella shirk nahei hei

Zara AAQAL KEY BEI BAAT KAROU.

Shirk khuda key zat ka sath shariek karney kou kahtey hei. For example.ESSA allah ka betta, maryam allah say pragnant ho ein

Quran christian, and jews waghara kou Mushrik kayta hei. or tum loug wasselay waloun kou; bus ies leyay ka shia muskrik hein kah sakou.

Apney aaqabat ka bei tou sounchou .keya kessi khalifa na khouwab mein aakar wada key ya hei bakhshesh karwaney ka youm e hashar.

Salawat on mohammed and his aale ibrahim

8

the fact that asking dead and taking them to be waseela is shirk has been proven beyond any doubt by the scholars who are grounded in knowledge and if some one does not want to believe thats up to them.
lakum denay kum wali ya deen.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
the fact that asking dead and taking them to be waseela is shirk has been proven beyond any doubt by the scholars who are grounded in knowledge and if some one does not want to believe thats up to them.
lakum denay kum wali ya deen.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, the fact that making dua through a waseela of religious persons (whether dead or otherwise) has also been proven beyond any doubt by the scholars who are grounded in knowledge and if some one does not want to believe thats up to them.

So, there you go. Works both ways, haan! :)

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Actually, the fact that making dua through a waseela of religious persons (whether dead or otherwise) has also been proven beyond any doubt by the scholars who are grounded in knowledge and if some one does not want to believe thats up to them.

So, there you go. Works both ways, haan! :)
[/QUOTE]

what ever you want to believe buddy,

11

I didn't say I believe in either of them... I am just saying that there is a valid difference of opinion on this issue, amongst very knowledgable scholars. So lets get off the high horse and let others breath. When you insult someone else's faith, you are most likely inviting them to insult yours. Apni izzat apnay haath. :)

12

Re: Re: Shirk Amongst the Ummah

So I guess matters like Istinjaa, masturbation, wet dreams, sex e.t.c., could not be discussed with the Holy Prophet :saw: because these are not acceptable terms to be used by a Prophet?

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Thanda Mazaq,

God himself did not communicated with his creation (US DIRECTLY) at all.What it indicates? how he wants us to communicate with him??? ZARA SOUNCHOU TOU SAHE PLEASE.

If he(GOD) wanted he would have easily communicated with us individually all the time. But he kept a baricade himself between us and him . he selected OUR PROPHETS; all of them as communication wassella, between him and us. Subhan allah sokoon wah wah.

Wasella between us and GOD to communicate, is needed by us also as does our GOD.

So do we use wassella to communicate with GOD, we feel if he had used wassella of mohammed and other prophets to communicate, it means what? we dear not to communicate with him, directly; we use waseella of prophet mohammed and aale mohammed, to communicate with GOD.

All correct astane walley mazars waaley sub kay sub aahlal baeit e rasoul hein, Chhei Ali houn ya, shah abdul Qadir jelani houn ya kouei bei jalil ul qadar houn. Sub ka sub, karamat walay thay or sub shaheed hein or shaheed zinda hein.hum say(GOD SAY) rizq milta hei un kou mat pounchou hum un kou rizq key say pouchatey hein. ( FRom QURAN about shaheed),

Bacha doud mangta hei ma say etc etc khuda khud peat pahr sakta tha. magar ous ney ma kou pap kou wasella chunna.

Wassella shirk nahei hei

Zara AAQAL KEY BEI BAAT KAROU.

Shirk khuda key zat ka sath shariek karney kou kahtey hei. For example.ESSA allah ka betta, maryam allah say pragnant ho ein

Quran christian, and jews waghara kou Mushrik kayta hei. or tum loug wasselay waloun kou; bus ies leyay ka shia muskrik hein kah sakou.

Apney aaqabat ka bei tou sounchou .keya kessi khalifa na khouwab mein aakar wada key ya hei bakhshesh karwaney ka youm e hashar.

Salawat on mohammed and his aale ibrahim
[/QUOTE]

r u saying that if I sit here n pray to God, He wont listen? Why do u need someone else to pray for u? It says in the Quran that He sees n hears everything, then why do u need other ppl (as pious as they mayb be) to communicate with Him?
plus shirk is such a big sin, isnt it better for us to avoid things that even MIGHT just be shirk?

"Surely Allah will not forgive the association of partners (shirk) with Him, but He forgives (sins) less then that to whomever He wishes"
(Surah An-Nisa 4:48)

14

My God! what a confusion the whole umah has?

Association of partners is like christians do Essa is GOD's son

Association of partner is like jew say God has son etc those who do not believe in sorah Ahad " Qoul " are mushrakeen and they do shirk by associating with God his children or they say mareyam was pragnant with GOD.

Wassella is exactly like this as GOD used prophet Mohammed to communicate with us , and he has send all his hedayat through him to us, even his quran.

Do you think God was incapable of communicating directly with all of us at one time? No he could have done, if he wanted, But he decided to use wasella between him and all the mankind.

We all know GOD had selected Hazrat Jibraeel as wassella to communicate with prophet mohammed.(pbuh), although at meraj he did meet him by doing masafeya.

We use wassella every day for every thing starting from the time we are born for every thing. And now also we when we get up we use wassella in every part of our life.

The salary I get through some one is actually GOD's blessing to me.

The health we enjoy after we recover from a sickness is GOD's blessing to us through a doctor.

So wassellas are in use between GOD and us from azal and would be used till abad.

Now the question is, would GOD listen to us directly or not? why not?

He listens to each and every creation of his,either muslims or hindu, christians, insects,animals etc etc Every one asks him for their needs.
He gives, he loves all.

But the best method is to use wasella between him, we only ask him Saying "O GOD wastta hai toujhe mohammed and aale mohammed ka and teray neik bandoun ka merei fallana douwa soun lay please" wagaera wagaera. Every day on GEo TV channel per aalim oun line sub say pahlay yahe sumjahta hai ka douwa keis terhan zeyada qouboul houtea hai.

Also shaheeds can be used for wasella as one must have eman on qurani aayat . quran key aayat per yaqeen na karna kufr key neshane hai. Quran says SHAHEED KOU MURDA MAAT KAHOU WOU ZINDA HEIN OR MOUJ SAY REIZQ PATAY HEIN

The rest you know better what satisfies you , the same way you pray for yourself, but do not say wassella is associating some one with allah.

Those who associate with allah are non muslims who associate his sons with him. etc

wassalam

15

Sokoon, i think maybe the easy way out of this argument is to provide some reference from Quran or Sunnah that says we should use waseela.

Allah wouldnt keep us in the dark. If waseela is ok then it must be mentioned explicitly in the Quran or Sunnah.

When mentioning Quranic Ayats and Hadith, its best to give the ayat # or provide the chain of naration as well as the book of the hadith.

16

Dear Maniac

Jahan aasani say aaqal kam na karay wahan Doundna chahe ye. Sunnat's key stories.

Magar mei na tou aasan see baat bataei hai ka shirk allah ka sath shariek karna kou kahtey hein.

Eis terhan jaisay eissa allah ka baeita hei. Ye tou aam see baat hai quran yahe kahta hei.

Allah na khoud wassella istemal keya, rasoul ka to communicate with us

Allah na wasella istemal keya jibraeil ka to communicate with prophet

for your satisfaction; because many get satisfaction , not with quran or prophet, only they get satisfied with khulafas sunnat.

khalifa doem na wasella istemal keya and asked rasoul's uncle to pray from GOD for BARish as it was barren those days.

Zeyada ter zinda lougoun say tou rouz he wasella istemal keya jata hei.

wasilla ka meaning hein use of wastta.

Murda ka waastta nahe deya saktey but of zindas and also those who are shaheed, as they are better than zindas, they are hayat according to quran.

This copy paste business, is for me wastage of time. And now since I know about their collections method very well, I do not have that much faith that all are the same as were in prophet's time. Different firqas collect them, correct them , rearrange them according to their believe; if they find it different, they say Doushmanou na chap deya nekalou eis kou, yei tou youn hai, since they have conviction that whatever their believe is , is correct.

So behter hai ka aaqal key kasouti per bei tou kaas kar deikh lein. Jou kouei allah say mangta hei direct ya indirect mangta allah he say hei. Wou kessi kou allah ka shareik na he kar raha hei.

If due to vested interest some one has propagated such things against some one like Barailvis or emamies. I do not agree, khuda khud hesab karna waalla hai. Humarei keya majal ka musalmanoun kou ya kh dein ka wou shierk kartey hein.

Dear Tanda mazaq,

anyone who is shaheed is alive. If you have faith in aayate qurani.
Asking with zinda is normal for every one.

But if you think Ali was not shaheed by ibne muljim, it is your conviction, but what I know, till date no one could dare to say he is not shaheed.or his sons and family is not shaheed in mouharamul Haraam. If you think yazeid was right upto you or ibne mouljim was right it is upto you; but please acknowledge it and let me know.

If I am in company and your boss is very close to you. And I am afraid that I have done some mistake and likely to be punished, if I ask your help, to request your friend, is it sheirk, in the end I know it is in the hand of your boss, not yours.

Malakul mout comes to take the life, like this GOD has appointed prophet Mohammed for to recomend BAKHSHEESH for us. Is it sheirk if we ask him or through him, forgiveness. Islam has bigger perimeters, everyone can not follow it.

Do not make islam so difficult.

17

Sokoon, i once again ask ,could you please provide Quran or Hadith sources for such topics that you discuss ?

Im not askign for anything extra ordinary, i never said im not fullfilled by Quran and Prophet, thats the only thing i follow.

So provide me with Quranic Ayats , or Saheeh hadith, they are not collected by any firqa or whatever, they are collected by a few people and over the years they have been accepted by almost all scholars of islam.

So once again, instead of posting sweet insults in urdu, please provide Quran and Sunnah sources to back up your claims.

As for asking waseela from someone living, thats as simple as me asking my mother to pray for me. When you ask a dead man to pray for you its totally different.

Yes shaheed are not dead, and wallah , they are indeed great great men and women, but where in the Quran or Sunnah does Allah ask us to ask the shaheed to make Dua to Allah for us or use them as a waseela ?

Now on the topic of waseela, please also provide me with an 'example dua' done thru waseela of some shaheed person or whatever, just give me the wordings so i better understand how you go about it, and then perhaps i`ll have a deeper understanding of it.

As for me making Dua to Allah, i ask Allah directly, i ask others to make Dua for me too sometimes but i make dua myself too.

As for Allah providing wahee to the prophet through Hazrat Gibreel, he has also spoken to the Prophet directly in the Hadeeth Qudsi, do you believe in those ?

Sincearly waiting your Quran and Sunnah sources.

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
Sincearly waiting you Quran and Sunnah sources.
[/QUOTE]
Since it will be a long wait, aap jaa ke koi aur kaam shaam karr ayein. :)

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Since it will be a long wait, aap jaa ke koi aur kaam shaam karr ayein. :)
[/QUOTE]

But ..but i just got here!

20

Maniac, I dont wish for a debate. Merely posting this to show that our position is not without basis.

Then heres an instance of intercession through Hazrat Yusuf’s father (who was a nabi too)

Ayat - ul - Kursi

then this is particularly compelling

Theres more on this rather specific website called answering ansar apparently setup to answer questions raised by ansar.org. anyway.. it gives sahih ahadith and snippets from sunni imams.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/en/chap5.php