Shias

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Maro Maro Sunni Agayay, Pakrro Pakrro Shi’a Aggaya. Phadda karo Q K hum Shi’a hian, Mar peet karo Q K hum Sunni hain.
Sakoon se mat betho Q K hum Musalman nahi hain.

Sharam aai? Nahi aai?
Mujhay bhi nahi aai!!!

Q K hum joker hain, hum jahil hain, unn cheezon per larrtay ahin jo 1400 saal pehlay khatam ho gai hain. Na Khalifa rahey na Khilfat to ab kya Shi’a Sunni phadday ka achar dalo gay. Larro larro sab larro main yahan beth ker puri dunya ke saath hansta hoon woh bhi aisay

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Rota iss liyay nahi hoon Q K bohat ro chuka hoon tum logon ki lashaen dekh ker. Tumharay janazay utha ker, tumhara khoon mera kaprron per bhi laga tha eak dafa.

Yad hai 1991 ka Shi’a Sunni fasad Karachi or Jhang wala, mainay pooray 15 janazay utthay thay. Sab mer ker eak jaisay lagtay ho, kissi maa ne yeh nahi kaha tha meray betay ko sunniyon ne mar diya ya shi’a ne maar diya. kaha to sirf Molvi ne kaha ya phir Allam ne kaha.

Sunno sunno bhai unn ki sunno!! Main to pagal hoon meri kon sunta hai? Haan magar eak baat bata doon uss din jab meray hathon per Shi’a or sunni dono ka khoon tha na! tab main apni poori koshish ke bawajood yeh nahi bata saka tha ke Shi’a ka khoon kon sa hai or Sunni ka kon sa! Pat anhai Q!

Tumhain pata hai to zara batana. Main to chala Hansnay woh bhi aisay

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–I know I’ll be a King One day, When Im Dead, They Gonna take me on their shoulders, Just like a King–

[This message has been edited by freestylla (edited May 22, 2001).]

22

Jazak-Allah Bro
couldn’t completely understand your post but still its worth reading…very realistic

23

Salaaam
You fellow sunni brothers have problem that we don't believe in Abu Bakr being khaleefa and beleif in Imamat of Hazrat Ali given by the Holy Prophet.

Now tell me friends if khilafat was so important then the burrial of the Prophet, Who is the Khaleefa now, Ok even if i believe in the khilafat lets see how it goes, First Abu Bakr, Then Umar, Usman, Hazrat Ali, Imam Hussan, wats after that Mahvia, and then Yazid, now u want us to believe in his khilafat, the person who shed the blood of the Holy Prophet's family, who took away rida from his grand daughters, it looks more like a govt then Islamic, and who is the khaleefa now, who are we supposed to beleif if we beleive in khaleefa, we still have Imam as a way of our guidance.

[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**Dear Sheraz you said...
" O Ali! You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa except that there will be no prophet after me"

I don't know why you interpret Hadiths wrongly....Prophet(peace be upon him and his family) said this to Hadrat Ali(Radi allah anhu)when he went to Fight the battle of Tabook.....This was a temporary order didn't mean that Hadrat Ali (Radi Allah anhu)Will be the Caliph afterwards......As Hadra Moosa said this to Hadrat Haroon when he went to Toor Mountain....after coming back again He was the Leader of Bani Israel......Got it
And you said.......
At Ghadeer Kum Prophet said it will be Ali after me..doesnt that hadith make sense? but after Prophet the munafiqs come forward..now u know the meaning of munafiq....
Again you express your funny belief...you r calling Hadrat Abu Bakr, Hadrat Umar and Hadrat Usman(Radi Allah anhum) the Munafiqs......While these are the great great Sehabas......You say you love Hadrat Ali but you are insulting those personalities who were the loving ones of Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah anhu) and he loved them more than any other person.....he never fought with them to win Caliphship......You are actually Insulting Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah anhu)**
[/quote]

Brother when Hazrat Moosa left for the mountian he elected Haroon to look after him, and you think Holy Prophet will leave us with no leader and let us choose who we want, Can't U seee what happened to the Khilafat, and where did you qoute that Hazrat Ali loved those personalitlies more then anyother person. Do u know what happened after Abu Bakr became the Khaleefa, What happened to Bibi Fatima for whom Holy prophet said that the person who hurt her hurts him.

Brother think about the that hadith open mindedly, if it was temporary, Why would Holy Prophet mention, that the only difference is there isnt any prophet after him, he could have said i have elected him temporarily.

24

Mr. Punjab_Police!

Seems like you got the answer to your question afterall!!! the funny thing is the way you got it. No one bothered to answer your simple question earlier, but soon as a brother posted some FACTS, in which there was no pun intended, everyone came crawling outta their holes and started uttering garbage. See how twisted things are here?!!

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Admins here is a suggestion for you…please start a new forum named “Bakwaas” as in religious bakwaas, and make NYAhmadi, SherazCT and StingeR as moderators since they seem to have a full command on the topic of the forum. Everyone who wants to utter all religious/sectarian garbage can go there to utter his or her garbage, so that this forum is reserved for some real religious topics.

thanx

I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work… I want to achieve it through not dying.

25

Dear wasir you said
“You say you love Hadrat Ali but you are insulting those personalities who were the loving ones of Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah anhu) and he loved them more than any other person…he never fought with them to win Caliphship…You are actually Insulting Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah anhu”
I AM SORRY TO TO SAY THAT YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT RELIGION SO I WILL SUGGEST YOU TO STOP YOUR POSTINGAS AS YOUR POSTING ARE SHOWING HOW MUCH YOU KNOW

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BY THE WAY WHERE YOU READ THIS

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26

Mr Don Juan,

I totally agree with you on this. The funny thing is that these losers will fight over & over and again & again on the SAME things.

Bit-tut is bothering them,

Police Ka Hay Farz Madad Apnay Aap Ki..!!

27

I am 100% Shia-en-Ali.

[This message has been edited by Farhina (edited May 22, 2001).]

28

array yaar choRo sub ko as you don't know I might be the biggest jaahil here :) You don't have to agree with me.

I don't know who u r referring to as munafiq. I know Imams are from prophet's (pbuh) family but isn't Islam against the rule of family. I know Hazrat Imam (ra) was well capable person but Amir Mua'awia did the same thing of continuing government within his own family. We see the same thing happening in the middle east and it is wrong. Islam only distinguish between people on the basis of taqwa and their ability to the right deeds according to Quran and Sunnah of prophet (pbuh).

I know prophet (pbuh) said that Ali (ra) is the door of the city and prophet (pbuh) referred himself as the city. We also know that prophet (pbuh) in his last days when he was unable to do Imamat in the mosque, took Hazrat Abu-bakr Siddique's hand and asked him to lead (imamamt). It was a clear sign from prophet (pbuh) that who would lead the muslim ummah when prophet (pbuh) is not among them. Here we are left with interpretations of prophet's sayings. You might say I am wrong and I might not agree with you and that's where most of the problem arises.

I didn't understand what is ghadeer?

I know that Hazrat Imam Hussain (ra) didn't need anyone and he didn't need to check if people would come to save Islam. Again, I would say that a lot of muslims espicially in the capital area were unaware of the fact. You would know better how Hazrat Imam Hussain (ra) sent Hazrat Aqeel (ra) * to negotiate and see the situation in Koofa and later how he was deceived by the government.

I agree with you that u can't be a better muslim on the basis of majority as the only way to be a better muslim is Taqwa - piousness.

[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
**khan sahab its better to discuss things with u then some jaahil

with munafiqs u know which personalities i am talking about..Imams are from Prophets family..they have the blood of Prophet running in them..shia basically means the follower of Imam Ali

khan sahab i was going through virtues of Imam Ali in sahi book and i read this hadith " O Ali! You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa except that there will be no prophet after me"

At Ghadeer Kum Prophet said it will be Ali after me..doesnt that hadith make sense? but after Prophet the munafiqs come forward..now u know the meaning of munafiq

on 10th when everyone got killed..Imam Hussain asked..hai koi jo meri madad ko aaye?? it wasnt because Imam Hussain was afraid of yazeed..but to see if there is anyone who would die for Islam..but no one came forward..these were all so called muslims..we dont think these are ordinary people..follower of yazid were far more then the follower of Imam Hussain

to say sunnis are better because they consist of 90% the muslims..its totally retarded**
[/quote]
*

29

By the Grace of the Almight (swt), I am a muslim who strives to follow the commandments of Allah (swt) and his holy messenger (pbuh), as taught to us through his chosen Wasis - the 12 holy imams (as).

30

[quote]
Originally posted by khan_sahib:
** I know Hazrat Imam (ra) was well capable person but Amir Mua'awia did the same thing of continuing government within his own family. We see the same thing happening in the middle east and it is wrong. Islam only distinguish between people on the basis of taqwa and their ability to the right deeds according to Quran and Sunnah of prophet (pbuh).

**
[/quote]

Mr. Khan,

Can you let us all know how Muwayah "did the same thing of continuing the government in his family".

You mean to say that there was no difference in the way a munafiq like Muwayah governed and the way the holy Imam (as) would have conducted affairs of the ummat.

And Khan, the big difference is where Imam Hussain (as) is the chosen holy Imam (as) of the Almighty (pbuh), Muwayah was a munafiq would desired only to rule for worldly pleasures.

There lies the difference Khan.

Jahaliyat has no bounds. Muwayah did a good job brainwashing the simple minded.

And ofcourse Khan, why would you know about Ghadeer. It is not a subject taught in yr madrassahs now, is it ? It wouldn't go down well with the other "truth".

31

a1shah kidher ghayab ho gaye thay..welcome back

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khan sahab i recently went to a majlis..and the maulana was sunni..then after majlis we prayed behind him…the guy is a lover of Prophet and His Family so why wouldnt we listen?

He said its in bukhari somewhere that Imam Hussain when He was a kid would come to the mosque and would stand on the Quran..go back and do the same again..sahabas got worried..but the Prophet smiled and said dont worry..its same as if u put a Quran over another Quran

this is in bukhari so do u realize the Azmat of Imam Hussain

another point he made was..when Prophet lost two teeth in the battle of Ohod..Hazrat Awais Kurni heard this and he broke all of his teeth..when Prophet heard that he said He is my Aashiq..never in life Prophet said anything like this about any sahaba

Prophet could have been mad..oh why did you do this..God will punish you…put you in hell..instead He said He is my aashiq

if we do matam then how can it be wrong?

khair baat kidher say kidher aa gayee

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32

Sheraz, I don't know if u read my post or not. I am not questioning your belief and has never done it as I believe that my belief to me and urs to you.

btw, what a1shah is saying. I really don't want to answer him coz he sounds like another jaahil on this forum.

Btw, I didn't mean to compare Imam Hussain (ra) with Muawiyah. Muawiyah nominated his son for khilafat and that's where most of the problem started in the history. Ask a1 to read something on the history. He might listen to you and I still don't know what ghadeer is.

33

Khan,

Besides running, whatelse is there that you can do. Best to avoid the truth. This way, you can continue clinging onto yr beliefs.

Why don't you teach us some history ? Let me see how good muwayah's students really are.

So you admit muwayah putting his cursed son Yazid was a bad thing. What say you about Usman plundering the ummat's wealth, giving carte blanche to his relative Marwan to do as he pleased, and to start the whole Umayad dynasty ?

Jahaliat has no bounds.

34

[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
**
how ignorant some people are..
Azadari of Imam Hussain hasnt started recently..we are the lover of Ahlebait..shia's arent the only ones who love Ahlebait..anyways there is no point arguing with u
u can love ur munafiq sahabas and we will love the Ahlebait
**
[/quote]

Are you trying to say that the sahabas are munafiq??? if so you are the biggest munafiq on this world. You don't have the knowledge and the right saying things like these 1400 years later..they were people who were in our prophets(peace be upon him) life, they the ones who spread islam to the world.

Do you really think Islam is about blood, where are our prophets blood family now???

[This message has been edited by kingshah (edited May 23, 2001).]

35

a1shah, do you know how Hazrat Usman was murdered-and-where he was murdered-and-what was he doing when he was murdered-and-what was he holding when he was murdered?

Do you know who were those men, who murdered Hazrat Usman?

Lets see what you know about history…true ISLAMIC history that is.

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36

PG,

I see that you conveniently left out why people wanted to kill Usman.

As to who killed him, it was Talha, in league with Aisha and Muwayah. Your sunni books confirm this:

Talha Ibn Ubaydillah was one of the biggest agitator against Uthman and was
the one who plotted his murder. He then used that incident for revenge
against Ali by starting the first civil war in the history of Islam (i.e.,
the battle of Camel).

I will just give few paragraphs from both of al-Tabari and
Ibn Athir to prove my point.

The following report also supports that the murder of Uthman was led by
Talha, and the killers came out to inform their leader that they took care
of Uthman: Abzay said: I witnessed the day they went in against Uthman. They
entered the house through an opening in the residence of Amr Ibn Hazm.
There was a skirmishing and they got in. By God, I have not forgotten
that Sudan Ibn Humran came out and I heard him say: "Where is Talha
Ibn Ubaydillah? We have killed Ibn Affan!"

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari,
English version, v15, p200

And reading the Qur'an doesn't give you a one way pass to heaven.

Usman, the coward that he was, probably was reading the Qur'an out of fear of the crowd of people outside his house that wanted to kill him.

37

And lets review what Mother of Believers, Aisha has to say about Usman:

Many Sunni historian reported that Once Aisha went to Uthman and asked for
her share of inheritance of Prophet (after so many years passed from the
death of Prophet). Uthman refrained to give Aisha any money by reminding
her that she was one those who testified and encouraged Abu-Bakr to refrain
to pay the share of inheritance of Fatimah (AS).

So if Fatimah does not
have any share of inheritance, then why should she? Aisha became extremely
angry at Uthman, and came out saying:
"Kill this old fool (Na'thal), for he is unbeliever."

Sunni references:- History of Ibn Athir, v3, p206- Lisan al-Arab, v14, p141
- al-Iqd al-Farid, v4, p290- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v16, pp 220-223

Conveniently enough, we should remember that Aisha was Tahla's cousin, the murderer of Usman.

How much Islamic history do you actually know, besides the "selected" topics taught to you in your madrassahs.

Live and learn.

38

Dear Bro…If you want I will Prove with Historical facts that Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah Anhu) used to like All three Khalifas before him…just let me know if you want an answer…I will post it here…and don’t worry about my knowledge about Islam but whatever I post here will take full responsibility for that…

39

Dear Bro.....If you want I will Prove with Historical facts that Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah Anhu) used to like All three Khalifas before him.....just let me know if you want an answer....I will post it here.....and don't worry about my knowledge about Islam but whatever I post here will take full responsibility for that......

quote:

"
Dear wasir,
First of all you proved it that Hazrat Ali was not like peoples(I will not point out those people who started fighting even they did not buried Hazarat Muhammad(PBU))
NOW YOU CAN CHECK THE DIFFERENCE HAZARAT ALI DID NOT FIGHT WITH THEM FOR CALIPHSHIP AS HE WAS NOT GREEDY FOR THAT, HE DID NOT WANT TO SPOIL ALL THE STRUGGLE THATS WAS MADE TO SPREAD ISLAM, SAME THING WITH IMAM HASSAN NAD IMAM HUSSAIN, BUT WHEN ISLAM WAS IN DANGER IMAM HUSSAIN TOOK THE STAND....
AND THAT IS GREATNESS OF HAZARAT ALI EVEN IN GADEER HAZARAT MUHAMMAD TOLD EVERYBODY TO FOLLOW HAZARAT ALI...
NOW YOU TELL ME IF THEY CANT LISTEN HAZARAT MUHAMMAD THEN WHOME THEY WILL LISTEN??????????????
I KNOW IT WILL BE HARSH REALITY FOR YOU BUT FACT IS FACT
AND YOU CAN FIND THIS IN ALL BOOKS EVEN YOU FOLLOW
"MUN KUNTO MULA FAH HADA ALI MULA"
I HOPE YOU WILL AGAIN GO TO BOOKS NOT BEING A BLIND BELIEVER WILL STUDY MORE

40

salam to all people.

please allow this jahil to say something. there is a hadith of our Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) which means that his sahabis are like stars, whichever we follow we shall be rightly guided.
Who knows better than Allah??? a1shah? Sheraz etc?? Allah told Prophet (P.B.U.H.) whoever munafiq was, right? howcome we after 1400 years decide who is munafiq, who is "momin", who is "kafir" ??? did Allah give us the authority? did Allah give powers to us to decide who we allow to enter Heaven or Hell?
who are the ten from "ashara mubashhara" ???

THE Decision is Allah's only, and HE knows the BEST. We should stop accusing each other of treason/traitory/etc and do our faraidh as Allah told us. I'm sure Shi'it and Sunni beleive in all the five pillars, and have same "kalima". whatever, bottomline is
La ilaaha illa-Allah Muhammad-ur-Rasool-ul-Allah.

We, the Muslims, are facing crisis after crisis. and what are we still doing? fighting for what happened 1400 years ago.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?