Shias? Muslim or not?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Salam,

I often find people labeling different sects within Islam as Kaafirs and Munafiqs. This bothers me, and I want to know if I’m wrong in my stance or not.

I’ll consider Shias as an example since I’m a Sunni. Most people I know would consider them Kaafirs, or borderline them with the Munafiqeens. However, I kind of fail to see the point.

I understand we all have differences, we all pray differently, we do our rituals differently, have our different religious dates etc, but our belief, in our hearts is the same.

If I look at a devout Shia, I see love for Allah and his Messenger pbuh in his heart. He has genuine love, despite the way he prays or the rituals he has adopted, the love in his heart is Genuine. Will Allah deter him away or embrace his love?

In the eyes of a Shia, Sunnis may be kaafirs, or Munafiqs. However, Muslims in general, no matter what belief and background have genuine love for Allah and his Rasool saw. So how can I place a label on a Shia as a Kaafir or a Munaafiq, somebody who is only pretending, or has gotten the rituals wrong so his love is automatically defective and futile?

Can this really be the case?

Just because someone has different rituals and practices does that mean the genuine love in their heart for Allah and his Rasool is useless? Does the sound heart full of Love for his creator and messenger hold lessor value than rituals and physical practices?

Am I wrong to call a Shia my brother? To put aside differences of rituals and practices, and to unify on the basis of genuine love for our Lord which his heart and my heart contains?

Can we not as a community, from both sides do that? To love our lord in unity, despite the differences in our belief and practices. As long as their is this genuine love both our hearts, the same love in his and the same love in mine.

This applies to anyone who asserts (again) genuine belief in Allah and his Rasool? So what if he rejects a certain hadith, or prays differently, to each its own right? THat matter will clear up on the day of judgement. But for the sake of humanity, for the sake of living on this earth can we not unify on the basis of a sound heart filled with love for Allah swt?

I hope I got my point across, because Allah is the judge of Hearts, while we may not conform to rituals and practices that another person may claim to be true, does it really make us a non believer, even though we have genuine love in our hearts for Allah?

2

Anyone who reads the kalima La illaha illallah, Muhammadur Rasoolullah is a Muslim.

Btw, Shia ulemas have never in 1400 years declared anyone who recited the kalima as a Kaafir or non believer (permitting adherence to the fundamentals like oneness of Allah, Khatam e Naboowat of the Prophet etc)

3

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

My dear brother, though I might be wrong (as I am not a scholar) InshaAllah it would be better for us if we only focus on learning and sharing good knowledge, and search for the ultimate truth. Life is too short to waste time in calling bad other people who call themselves Muslims, because even the prophet (saw) didn't call any munafiq as munafiq on his face (who are the worst people on the face of earth and deserve the highest punishment in hell, according to a hadith). WHY should we take responsibility of Judging others which is only the RIGHT OF ALLAH (s.w.t). I am sure our negative views about other sects would not be asked in our exams on the day of judgment. We would only be asked of what difference we made with our own practical example.

We may only guide people with our knowledge of Quran and Hadith when anyone specially come to us for guidance and asks which sect to follow. But that too should be done with wisdom without mud slinging on other sects. We are not here to become "police inspector of Islam" and brain wash anyone but only help them in searching and deciding themselves which sect to follow, as at the end we all would be held responsible for our own deeds and what matters is anything which is done from heart with sincere intentions, that can only be achieved after self research, accepting advice of everyone and not taking any belief for granted.

When good is preached bad itself perishes.

Qalallah Ta' ala: - Qul Ja'al Haq WA Zahaqal Batil inal Batil Ka'ana Zahuqha
*
Allah Ta'ala Says: - **Tell that "Haq" (Truth) has come and "Batil" (False) has been destroyed. And Batil was bound to perish.
*

In the process of calling others bad, we at times forget the sunnah of NOT hurting others feelings with personal attacks because that is a greater sin. We might have had different attitude if we were born in the same sect we are criticizing now. We should humbly present ourselves as an example (to our level best) by our practical actions and pray for guidance of every single human on earth with tears of repentance in the darkness of the nights in front of Allah (s.w.t).

We must remember that Allah doesn't like pride and we might be tempted to consider ourselves better then others in the process of criticism.

May Allah (s.w.t) forgive me if I said anything which Allah (s.w.t) didn't like, as I am an illiterate and only Allah (s.w.t) knows BEST!

4

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

As far As calling other Kafir is concerned, accoding to these ulemas, none in Pakistan is muslim, as deobandi declare braivvies Kafir and vice versa, shia are regared as Kafirs , wahabi are none as non muslims, so as a matter of fact there is no muslims left in Pakistan.

In Sura-e-Inam, It is said that (mafhoom), when one declare him/herself as muslim, S/he is muslim, and S/he should treated like muslims. What lies in his heart is matter between Allah and that person.

In days of Prophet (PBUH) Abdullah bin Ubbi was well known for his connections and conspiracies against the Prophet (PBUH) and Islam, still Prophet (SAAW) treated him well. I think this example should be good enough for us.

There can be difference of opinion, there can be few people who think that somebody in the past was better than somebody else, but as long as they have the believe on Kalima, they are muslims.

5

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

Thank you for your posts, It further strengthens my argument that if someone has belief in Allah and his Last messenger Muhammad S.A.W. Then I can consider him part of the Muslim Ummah, treat him as my brother, and disregard the differences between him and I.

It happens to often that we forget this and engage in useless slander against one another, for I wonder sometimes, How can two people who love Allah so much, be so aggressively abusive towards each other?

It's not possible, we need to seriously stop the slander and these divisions between the muslim community, and be more tolerant for the sake of Allah and for the sake of our deen.

6

o ho Cresent What happened? Who did you come across? Who would have expected you to open threads like that in Ramadhan.

7

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

present day mainstream 12er sect of shias are muslims as they clearly believe in finality of prophethood
but many sects of rafidas in the past had heretical beliefs and were considered nonmuslims

[QUOTE]

However, Muslims in general, no matter what belief and background have genuine love for Allah and his Rasool saw. So how can I place a label on a Shia as a Kaafir or a Munaafiq, somebody who is only pretending, or has gotten the rituals wrong so his love is automatically defective and futile?

[/QUOTE]

great approach

pagluu shias and sunnis both have used label of apostasy for political reasons in their history

8

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

I agree to all the sentiments expressed. Anyone who calls himself a muslim is a muslim to me. Whether he truly is or not is only God's decision and He alone can judge that. However, it is my experience with most people who express such sentiments that as soon as one talks of Ahmadis, they bring in a 'but'. So just to clarify, are all the sentiments expressed for everyone who recites the kalima and calls himself a muslim regardless of their sect or belief or is there a 'but'.

It sould be understood that the same 'but' thats reserved for ahmadis was and is still used to label every sect as non-muslim by some other sect. So the principle outlined by the thread opener should a universal principle without any 'buts' because as soon as you reserve one 'but' the game is out of your hand and someone is going to use the same 'but' for one sect or another.

9

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

Who are we to decide if someone is a muslim or a kafir? No one! It's not us who will decide about the fates of all human beings on Yaum'ul'Qiyamah. So I think it's useless to even start these discussions. Jisnay kalimah parha hai, woh muslim hai. Uske baad jo bhi amal karta hai aur kis niyat se karta hai, usko Allah ko hi jawab dena hai. Humko nahin. As a muslim ummah we should start uniting. But instead we are only falling apart even more. Because we don't accept other muslims beliefs, thinking the belief we are following is the only right one. Labelling others as kafirs. Yeh ghalat baat hai. Humko aik dosray ko accept karna chahiye. Aur Allah se du'a maangni chahiye ke Woh humko seeda raastay per laaye, humari ummat ko seeday raastay per laaye aur humko unite karay. May Allah forgive us....

10

well i think we should discuss abt that too, coz some people really want to know the views of other n they usually follow what majority says.for example where co-education is very common in our society, now ur friend might b a shia n u r sunni a vice-versa so in some cases the sitution arises thet a sunni wants to arry with a shia so what would b the solution?
they can b married to each other or not?
what r the reasons not to b getting married?

so it might possible that sum1 frm us come with authentic knowledge n other people would see the right way.

thanx

11

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

i agree with chilli milli and chacha jee

12

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

"mujse kia puchti ho munni
na mein shiya na mein sunni"

i only no that i born muslim n die muslim,,,
a saying is "pehle khud ko sahi muslim banalo to badi baat hai ".

13

Anyone who divides with the Muslim-Kaafir accusations is playing a deadly game. You should judge Muslims based on this, are they bringing Muslims together, or they putting one Muslim against the other?

Everyone knows the famous hadith, that if one Muslim calls another Kaafir, one of them will certainly be. That's a enough of a reason to not call people kaafir. Who wants to to take that gamble?

None of the 4 major Sunni schools ever declared Shias kaafir.

And they were the best in understanding the faith and it's principles. So if some crack-head Imam in your local masjid is calling Shia's kaafir, then he should be compared against Islam's greatest scholars. And if it's just some wacko half-baked guy who went to study Islam overseas in Saudi, and comes back with this dis-unity attitude, then I would ignore anything that he says. All of this disunity preaching plays right into the hands of those who truly hate all of us.

14

an interesting video on topic:

15

Totally agree :k:

16

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

60% of my family is Shia.. There was never a topic raised like tat in my family.... They get married together.. No issues.. I don't know why people now a days have to pinpoint these things...

17

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

Prinsess..
saarim ka replay zara ghaur se parhye ga..apke bohat mofeed sabit hoga.

18

parh li hain mayri jan.. and iam agreeing with him/her.. Read my comment again.. i said kay my family is mix of both shia and suni.. and no one has raised this issue (not tat it is an issue for me or for my family).....

19

Re: Shias? Muslim or not?

no agar parha hota to ap kisi ko non-muslim kehne par sharminda hotin-..ap sirf apne matlab ki bat hi kyun parhti hain..apne dusre Topics me bohat ghalat bola hai.aur yahan ap agree kar rahi hain. i have also much points against shias..but i never discuss on them becuase i dont want to hurt some one by my words... everyone is & should accept other.

20

i think its not fair if u dont discuss them and keep them inside.... if u think shias are on wrong path then u shld atleast bring em up in a nice way, u might be able convince someone, or othewise ur points cud be wrong.