shia's and sunni's

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141

Ibrahim;

I see that you have no answer to my previous post. As such, you have resorted to lengthy babble to throuw the reader of his track.

It will not work my friend.

Patting yourself on your own back does not make you right nor does it add to your wisdom.

I suggest you let the readers decide what is right and what is wrong.

As far as having answered my posts, I think that you have been blinded by your own pride in believing that this is so. On the contrary, I have found your logic flawed with pre-dispositioned assumptions, relying heavily on emotions rather than fact.

Your explanation of the ayats that you post as well as your explanation of them has left no doubt that you are a master of pasting but have not an iota of their comprehension.

As much as you may want to accuse or believe that I am shia, I am sorry to inform you that I am very much a follower of the hanafi madhab. However, this is not the issue.

Your tactics have included outright accusations that I embarked on insulting the Umm Momineens. This is clearly not so to the unbiased reader. What I have proposed all along is that the purified ahl-bait mentioned in the qur'an does not include the wives of the ahl-bait, simply because some of them did not behave in a manner befitting a sinless person who is purified by Allah (swt).

Such purified modes of conduct can only be found in the true ahl-bait of the holy prophet (pbuh) and this includes only the holy prophet himself, Ali (ra), Fatima (ra), Hasan (ra), and Hussain (ra).

All your ranting and ravings will not change that fact, just as your last post has tried its best to ignore upon the points that I mentioned in my previous post.

Don't think that I am unaware of you when you hide from the true issues.

w'salam

142

I refer you to Sahih Bukhari to the following hadith:

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 152:

Narrated Anas:

While the Prophet was in the house of one of his wives, one of the mothers of the believers sent a meal in a dish. The wife at whose house the Prophet was, struck the hand of the servant, causing the dish to fall and break. The Prophet gathered the broken pieces of the dish and then started collecting on them the food which had been in the dish and said, "Your mother (my wife) felt jealous." Then he detained the servant till a (sound) dish was brought from the wife at whose house he was. He gave the sound dish to the wife whose dish had been broken and kept the broken one at the house where it had been broken.

From this hadith, we can see that one of the wives of the prophet (pbuh) felt so jealous that she broke the food dish that was sent to the holy prophet (pbuh) by one of his other wives.

Now, please tell me whether this sort of insolence infront of our holy prophet (pbuh) is acceptable ?

Is this the way this particular wife should be behaving infront of Allah's Rasool (pbuh) ?

Is this the way of obeying Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) as stated in surah Azhab ?

Is she to be included as the ahl-bait that Allah (swt) purified of all sins as stated in verse 33:33 ?

And if you try to say that she hit it by mistake, please read the hadith carefully whereby the prophet (pbuh) is explaining that his wife became jealous - hence the fit of rage.

And Allah (swt) knows best.

143

Ibrahim,

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/kiss.gif

I bow to your extensive knowledge about ‘disgusting’ and ‘filthy’ shias!

144

I don't usually get involved in these type of threads, but I have no choice, but to give my opinion on this one.

I have been following the thread, and will state that I agree with Ibraheem on the issue in question.

Call me biased if you like, but Ibraheem has presented valid arguments.

I believe that Gandalf has also countered in his view, but a fundamental issue was missed!

Namely:

The Ahl'Bayt does NOT apply to only 5 members of the Prophet PBUH's household. This is made very clear in the Qur'aan. When the families of the Messengers are mentioned it includes all members:

003.033 Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of

‘Imran above all people,-

028.029 Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."

A family does not become complete, until at least both Husband and Wife are included into the equation, as they are the primary source of the household.

When you marry someone, you automatically become a member of that household.

This is the only way a FAMILY can commence and continue. Through marriage.

I have yet to meet a Shi'ite who includes all the wives and children of the Prophet as Ahl'Bayt.

No mention is made of Hazrat Khadijah RA, Ibraheem, Al Qasim, Zaynab, Ruqqayah, Umm Kulthum, or their children Ummamah, Ali, Abyssinia, or the husbands Abul Aas and Uthman. Even Hazrat Ali RA's other three children are left out of the equation, when Ahl'Bayt is mentioned.

What carries more authority, the Qur'aan or A'Hadeeth?

Obviously the Qur'aan.

The Qur'aan quite clearly mentions who the Ahl'Bayt are and NO I repeat NO A'Hadeeth is required to explain the family.

Secondly, if I was to use the same reason of thought as certain people, then the following would be said.

Hazrat Ali RA is NOT mentioned in any ayats relating to the Ahl'Bayt, but the Wives are. Therefore they carry more authority.

Hazrat Ali RA did NOT treat one of the Mothers of Believers as a Mother. Therefore, this is in direct contradiction of the Qur'aan!

Hazrat Ai'shaa RA spent 10 years with the Prophet PBUH, which is nearly half of the period of revelation and Prophethood. But obviously, according to some logic, the Prophet PBUH was wrong in doing so, and furthermore, 10 years was not long enough for the warning of a bad choice to be revealed to the Prophet PBUH.

Ahl'Bayt means ALL the Prophet PBUH family and not just a select few.

Either you accept all the members or none at all. Very simple.

Ayat 33-63, is particularly addressed to the Nasara inviting them to accept the truth revealed in the Qur'aan and to correct their various false notions about Jesus. We also find in this discourse, the Qur'aan completely absolves Jesus and and his mother of the malicious views of the Jews about them and also refutes the erroneous belief of the Nasara regarding the Divinity of Jesus.

The whole issue is dealing with Jesus and the false attributes connected to him.

Furthermore, when the ayat mentions the bringing of sons, women and ourselves, it relates to the communities and not just the Family of each party. If this was the case, then how could Jesus's followers bring the Family of Jesus! Jesus was not even married, let alone had children!

The Qur'aan regularly speaks in parables. For instance when Mary is spoken to in the following ayat:

019.028 "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

Mary had NO brother named Aaron. Check the chronolgy. So what does this mean!

The nearest you will find of Aaron to Mary is the brother of Moses. But Mary shares the same lineage from Isaac.

Can it be that the Qur'aan made a mistake!!!

In Arabic grammar, their is no such thing as Negative and Positive Grammar.

All of the Arabic alphabet with exception to alif, are consonents.

These consonents are divided into 2 groups, the sun letters and the moon letters. I won't elaborate further on this as it may be a bit too deep for you to take on board at the moment.

You have vowel markings for the likes of you so that reading can be made easier and these markings are known as I'rab markings.

When Fatha, Kasrah or Dammah are doubled, This is called Tanwin.

You have 2 Plurals in Arabic, the Complete plural and the Broken Plural. I'll leave their formations for the time being, as I'm sure you're struggling as we speak.

The Noun has 3 genders, which is Masculine, Feminine and Common.

For the record, the ayat in question is an Adverstative sentence due to starting with OH! and the meaning is Declarative due to some kind of desire being present and continuation of declaration.

The Declarative sentence has ten kinds:

Order
Prohibitive
Interrogative
Hypothetical or Optative
Probability
Contract
Vocative
Supplication
Oath
Exclamatory

History and A'Hadeeth DO NOT override the status of the Qur'aan.
The Primary source for all queries, IS the Qur'aan.

So, if the Qur'aan has made it abundantly clear, concerning the Ahl'Bayt, then noone can dispute this fact.

However, if individuals want to totally ignore the ayats and put A'Hadeeth and History before the Qur'aan for Political Gain, then so be it.

This is why we have been given the best gift of all. CHOICE.

We can CHOOSE to accept or decline!

And Abdullah Ibn Saba decided to decline.

145

Brother Sholay;

Thank you for your post which was enlightening and knowledgeable.

The fact of the matter is that when the verse of Mubhaila was revealed, the holy prophet (pbuh) only took his daughter Fatima (ra), his two grandsons (ra), and his cousin (ra), although he could have taken his wives as his ahl-bait since the quranic verse said bring our womenfolk.

Howeverm the holy prophet (pbuh) did not do any such thing since the ahl-bait which Allah (swt) had ordered were none other than the 5 under the cloak.

As such, based upon the following:

1)The events of Mubhaila

2)The event of the cloak where the holy prophet (pbuh) enclosed his ahl-bait under a cloak and at which point verse 33:33 was revealed

3)The quranic ayats warning the wives of the prophet (pbuh) against bad behavior

4)The hadiths that describe some of the behavior of Umm Momineens infront of and against the prophet (pbuh)

5)The quranic ayats giving examples of previous wives of righteous prophets having sinned and as such are not exempt from punishment or atleast are not guaranteed divine protection from sin

6) The warnings to the prophet's (pbuh) wives in surah azhar that their punishment would be double for any sin due to their special position

7) Verse 33:33 guaranteeing the purification of ahl-bait from all sins

8) The change in tense from feminine (referring exclusively to the prophet's (pbuh) wives) to masculine (where a group of both men and women can be present - consistent with the event of the cloak where 4 males and one female (Fatima (ra) ) were present)

All clearly suggest that the ahl-bait that the prophet (pbuh) was equating with the quran as the two weighty things, as per authentic Sahih hadiths, were none other than the prophet (pbuh), Ali (ra), Fatima (ra), Hasan (ra), and Hussain (ra).

The bottomline, no individual who has been purified by Allah (swt) against all sins, would exhibit character that would cause anger and pain to the holy prophet (pbuh).

Quran always comes first with our Sahih hadiths as a guide for its explanation. To ignore the Sahih books all together is a different issue, and one that would limit our understanding of the events that occurred at the time of the prophet (pbuh)

w'salam

146

Ibrahim says : salaams to all
A CLEAR message to those who have in ignorance, arrogance and hatred decided to slander the pious companions and wives of the Prophet (pbuh) !

Read and BEWARE.

9: 78 ** Know they not that Allah doth know their secret (thoughts) and their secret counsels ** and that Allah knoweth well all things unseen?

79 ** Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labor and throw ridicule on them Allah will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty. **

80 ** Whether thou ask for their forgiveness or not (their sin is unforgivable): if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness Allah will not forgive them: because they have rejected Allah and His apostle; and Allah guideth not those who are perversely rebellious**

147

Another hadith from Sahih Bukhari. Please give a thought as to whether it is appropriate for an Umm Momineen to speak to the prophet (pbuh) like this:

Volume 7, Book 70, Number 570:
Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:

'Aisha, (complaining of headache) said, "Oh, my head"! Allah's Apostle said, "I wish that had happened while I was still living, for then I would ask Allah's Forgiveness for you and invoke Allah for you." Aisha said, "Wa thuklayah! By Allah, I think you want me to die; and If this should happen, you would spend the last part of the day sleeping with one of your wives!" The Prophet said, "Nay, I should say, 'Oh my head!' I felt like sending for Abu Bakr and his son, and appoint him as my successor lest some people claimed something or some others wished something, but then I said (to myself), 'Allah would not allow it to be otherwise, and the Muslims would prevent it to be otherwise".

Now, lets look at this hadith from Sahih Muslim:

Book 031, Number 5915:

This hadith has been narrated. on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camelg. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind hrin in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'All said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.

Notice the words in bold. The prophet (pbuh) said that the 5 (including the prophet (pbuh) ARE HIS FAMILY. He DID NOT say they are AMONGST my family.

Bottomline, respect the wives of the prophet (pbuh) as Umm Momineen, but do not include them as part of the purified ahl-bait.

148

Quote of the Year

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

May Allah reward you for your efforts Ibrahim. Aameen.

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, ** I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: ** Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (Holy Qur’an 2:186)

149

I don't want to drag this issue longer than necessary, but here is some food for thought!

The Qur'aan explicity gives a woman the right to Inheritance, Marrriage, Divorce and Re-Marriage.

If the re-marriage right is universal, then why would this fundamental right be taken away from such important women, such as the Wives of the Prophet PBUH?

Obviously, there has to be a reason for this, otherwise we fall back into the period of Ja'haliyaa.

Basic common sense dictates that the reason they were not allowed to remarry was for the protection of their PURITY. This falls in line with the ayat in question.

Secondly, the Prophet PBUH was the light and example for ALL Mankind and I find it literally impossible to comprehend that the Prophet PBUH would only choose one of his children and her prodgeny as his family, and disregard his other children and wives including Hazrat Khadijah RA, who was THE Mother of the children, and also the first person the Prophet PBUH confided in upon receival of Prophethood, and the first Woman to accept Shahaadah!

Islam teaches us to treat all our children with equality!!! Not favour one over the other or favour boys over girls, light skinned over dark skinned etc etc.

Furthermore, the Qur'aan states:

033.006 The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs:

If blood relations are closer, than the Prophet PBUH could not have left out the remainder of the children!! As this would be in direct contradiction of the Qur'aan!

Finally, I feel comfortable treating ALL the Prophet PBUH's wives and children as the Ahl'Bayt, rather than a select few!

This is my personal choice, and I believe it in my heart to be the RIGHT choice.

Salaam.

150

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**

Secondly, the Prophet PBUH was the light and example for ALL Mankind and I find it literally impossible to comprehend that the Prophet PBUH would only choose one of his children and her prodgeny as his family, and disregard his other children and wives including Hazrat Khadijah RA, who was THE Mother of the children, and also the first person the Prophet PBUH confided in upon receival of Prophethood, and the first Woman to accept Shahaadah!

**
[/quote]

Brother Sholay,

Of the righteous wife of the holy prophet (pbuh), Khadija, whom Allah (swt) guaranteed heaven, please note what Umm Momineen Aisha has to say about her from Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 168:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Gabriel came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is Khadija coming to you with a dish having meat soup (or some food or drink). When she reaches you, greet her on behalf of her Lord (i.e. Allah) and on my behalf, and give her the glad tidings of having a Qasab palace in Paradise wherein there will be neither any noise nor any fatigue (trouble) . "

Narrated 'Aisha: Once Hala bint Khuwailid, Khadija's sister, asked the permission of the Prophet to enter. On that, the Prophet remembered the way Khadija used to ask permission, and that upset him. He said, "O Allah! Hala!" So I became jealous and said, "What makes you remember an old woman amongst the old women of Quraish an old woman (with a teethless mouth) of red gums who died long ago, and in whose place Allah has given you somebody better than her?"

Please let me know if this is the way Aisha should be talking and feeling about a righteous, heavenly woman like Khadija (ra), who was informed of paradise by Allah (swt) Himself.

Is this a way a purified ahl-bait talks to a dead person, who happens to be the most beloved wife of the holy prophet (pbuh).

These are foods for thought before you consider all the wives as part of the purified itra, as stated in Verse 33:33.

Also, please remember that it is not the holy prophet (pbuh) that decides who his purified ahl-bait are, but Allah (swt), as the following verse tells us:

[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed

As such, questions as to why the holy prophet (pbuh) did this and not that DOES NOT arise.

It is more important to ascertain the facts than to believe in something because it feels better to do so.

w'salam

151

Gandalf

I tried in vain just to be brief in my reasoning, but unfortunately I now have no alternative but to give you a more detailed response to my stance.

If the verse you are debating, addressed only the wives of the Prophet , why didn’t it contain a feminine pronoun of (Meem) instead of using an article implying plural of men?

It should be clear that the Messenger of Allah was the head of his household. So, in order to include him, it was incumbent to use the article “ Meem” that denotes talking about a group of men. For he was a man and a leader of his household. For more explanation of this, refer to the verse wherein Allah talks about Prophet Ibraheem (Pbuh).

“ They said: Do you wonder of Allah’s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, oh ye people of the house ! For He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of glory.” Quran 11 : 73

Since Abraham was also included in his family, the Holy Qur’an addressed his wife using musculine plural of men with the article ”Meem” as it is customary in the Arabic grammar. For the plural of men is applied even though there is only one man in the group of females according to the classical Arabic. Moreover, in Arabic, a wife is addressed as ”Ahl”, which also means ” People” as revealed in the verse wherein Allah almighty was talking about Prophet Moses AS:

” Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family…” Quran 28 : 29

So, what do you find so strange if this verse was addressed solely to the wives of the Prophet (Pbuh), though the article of musculine plural was applied ?

In the verse: ” And Allah wishes only to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the family, and to make you pure and spotless.” Allah’s statement was not to assure them that they had already been purified, but rather to stipulate a condition that if they obeyed Him, He would remove all abomination from them and thus purify them. He only wished to purify them if they met this Condition.

If you analyze the context, you will find that Allah Almighty was giving the prophet’s wives some divine directions to do all what He commanded them and to abstain from what He forbade. He thus informed them that if they Conformed to his commands and abstained from what he forbade, He would reward them by removing all abomination from them and make them pure and stainless.

It should be noted that Allah Almighty has used this pattern of speech to address our predecessors. Consider the following verses:

“ Allah does not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favor upon you , that ye may be grateful.” Quran 5 : 6

In another verse, He thus says: “Allah does wish to make clear to you and to show you the ordinances of those before you.” Quran 4 : 26

He also says: “ Allah does wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created weak (in flesh ). “ Quran 4 : 28

The purification mentioned in the aforementioned verse was not meant to make the kith and kin of the Messenger of Allah infallible, but rather to remove all abomination and mischief from them. This style is widely used in the Holy Qur’an. We read in the Holy Qur’an:

“ Of their goods take alms, so that ye might purify them and sanctify them………” Quran 9 : 103

The verse does not whatsoever mean that purification has already taken place, but it rather asserts explicitly the will of Allah Almighty to purify the Staunch and sincere Wives of the Prophet PBUH.

If we presume that the purification verse was revealed only to address the relatives of the Prophet PBUH and not his spouses, so the purification stated in the verse does not suit them, due to following Qur’anic text in which Allah Almighty says: “ But He so will to purify you and complete His favors on you.” He so addresses His servants in so many other Qur’anic verses.

So, if the aim of Allah Almighty in purifying the spouses of the Prophet PBUH was to make them infallible, it would necessitate us to say that all the believers are infallible, following the Qur’anic verse which states that Allah Almighty so Wills to purify them. I am pretty sure that neither the Sunnis nor the Shi’as can allege that analogy.

So how can the purification theory be executed in respect of some sects of people and leave others out of bound? Can’t you see that in this preposition, there is some whimsical and temperamental inclination? There is not any scientific methodology in it!

Finally, the cloak A'Hadeeth that some people swear alleigance to, has been misinterperated for ceturies. The reason why the Prophet PBUH put Hazrat Ali, Bibi Fatimah, Imaam Hassan and Hussain under the cloak, was a reassurance to them because Allah had already revealed the ayat concerning the Family which was specically for the Wives!!

Not the other way round!

Since the purification verse was revealed in regard to the Wives of the Allah’s Messenger PBUH and Allah Almighty affirmed to make them pure and spotless, the Messenger of Allah PBUH gathered his closest kith and kin and invoked Allah Almighty to purify them as promised his Wives (Prophet’s).

He thus said in his supplication: ( O Allah ! those are my kith and kin, remove all abomination from them and make them pure and spotless ). So after Umm Salama saw that the Messenger PBUH of Allah had included Ali, Fatima, Al-Hasan and Al-Hussein in the members of his household, she requested him earnestly to include her among the people he supplicated for. The Messenger PBUH of Allah informed her undoubtedly that there was no need for him to include her among his kith and kin since she was one of his Wives, and the verse was revin their regard. This is a sound evidence that states categorically the fact that the verse was not revealed in regard of the Prophet’s kith and kin but rather it was addressing his Wives. Had it been addressing also his kith and kin there would be no need for him to gather his daughter, son -in-law and his grandsons to invoke Allah to include them among his spouses who were promised to be purified!!

Salaam

152

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**

It should be clear that the Messenger of Allah was the head of his household. So, in order to include him, it was incumbent to use the article “ Meem” that denotes talking about a group of men. For he was a man and a leader of his household. For more explanation of this, refer to the verse wherein Allah talks about Prophet Ibraheem (Pbuh).

“ They said: Do you wonder of Allah’s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, oh ye people of the house ! For He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of glory.” Quran 11 : 73

Since Abraham was also included in his family, the Holy Qur’an addressed his wife using musculine plural of men with the article ”Meem” as it is customary in the Arabic grammar. For the plural of men is applied even though there is only one man in the group of females according to the classical Arabic. Moreover, in Arabic, a wife is addressed as ”Ahl”, which also means ” People” as revealed in the verse wherein Allah almighty was talking about Prophet Moses AS:

” Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family…” Quran 28 : 29

So, what do you find so strange if this verse was addressed solely to the wives of the Prophet (Pbuh), though the article of musculine plural was applied ?

**
[/quote]

Brother Sholay;

Let's examine the verses that you quoted:

[Shakir 11:71] And his wife was standing (by), so she laughed, then We gave her the good news of Ishaq and after Ishaq of (a son's son) Yaqoub.

[Shakir 11:72] She said: O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old woman and this my husband an extremely old man? Most surely this is a wonderful thing.

[Shakir 11:73] They said: Do you wonder at Allah's bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O people of the house, surely He is Praised, Glorious.

Based on these verses, you have suggested that the wives also form part of the ahl-bait.

This is why not everyone can interpret the qur'an and why Allah (swt) has given us "those firmly grounded in knowledge" to teach us their hidden meanings.

Please note that in these verses, the prophet's (pbuh) wife, Sarah was included in the Ahl ul Bayt because firstly she was a cousin of Ibrahim and secondly she was going to give birth to Is-haq, in addition to her own merits, otherwise a wife (particularly one who does not possess required merits) cannot be included into the Ahl ul Bayt, a divinly chosen term to praise and glorify certain persons, ***because a wife can be divorced, after which she ceases to be a member of the house.*

Some of the Holy Prophet's wives had been censured by the Quran for their unbecoming conduct. The event of mubahila (Ali Imran: 61) has confirmed that the wives of the Holy Prophet were not chosen as nisa-ana, because none of them were among the Ahl ul Bayt.

The term Ahl ul Bayt has been used exclusively for the family of Ibrahim, including both the Israelite and the Ismailite branches. As the chosen party of Allah, since time immemorial, they strived to establish "houses of prayer and worship" to serve Allah, and kept these houses purified, because they themselves had been thoroughly purified by Allah.

I also see that in your posts, you have deliberately ignored the Sahih hadiths clearly showing the unbecoming behavior of certain wives of the holy prophet (pbuh).

Let's cut to the chase and answer the following:

1) Why didn't the holy prophet (pbuh) take ANY of his wives to Mubhaila ? Allah (swt) commanded him (pbuh) to take his WOMENFOLK, YET HE ONLY TOOK FATIMA (ra).

The hadith on Mubhaila TELLS us clearly who the ahl-bait are since the holy prophet (pbuh) said clearly "This is my family" - NOT amongst my family. ONLY the ahl-bait of the prophet (pbuh) were commanded to be taken to this event.

2) How do you consider the wives as the purified ahl-bait after reading Sahih hadiths showing their malicious behavior. Both you and Ibrahim have conveniently tried to overlook these hadiths, but it has and will not help your cause.

3) How do you consider the wives as the purified ahl-bait after reading ayats from the holy qur'an whereby they a couple of them were warned by Allah (swt) ?

And let's make this clear:

1) Verse 33:33 tells us that the ayat is addressing a group of people who have male members and who may or may not include female members. On its own, it may or may not include the wives of the prophet (pbuh).

2) The sahih hadiths as well as the history of the wives, sahabahs, and family members, TELLS us who the ahl-bait are.

ws

153

Gandalf

I merely gave you my reasoning for the stance I take in identifying and determining who the Ahl'Bayt are! I am not the one who has a problem with this!

However, you seem to be going round and around in circles, clutching to the A'Hadeeth rather than the Qur'aan.

Secondly, do you have any idea of the Synopsis of Context regarding the ayat concerning the wives and the warning! If you do, then please feel free to explain. Otherwise I can do it for you.

Now, coming onto your questions, let's deal with them one by one:

1) Why didn't the holy prophet (pbuh) take ANY of his wives to Mubhaila ? Allah (swt) commanded him (pbuh) to take his WOMENFOLK, YET HE ONLY TOOK FATIMA (ra).

OK, let's for one moment assume that you are correct and the Wives are NOT part of the family.

Are you then indicating that the Prophet PBUH willfully left out at least 3 more daughters, therefore making a grave mistake:

Zaynab RA, Ruqayyah RA and Umm-Kulthum RA.

Be very careful how you answer this!

2) How do you consider the wives as the purified ahl-bait after reading Sahih hadiths showing their malicious behavior. Both you and Ibrahim have conveniently tried to overlook these hadiths, but it has and will not help your cause.

Firstly, we do not have a cause, as you may want to allege. There are no 'hidden agendas' on our end!

Moving onto the A'Hadeeths. This A'Hadeeth is showing you that the Wives were only Human and not Divine,(like you allege the Imaams are). They had feelings! Jealousy is a natural trait! Or do you believe that the notion of jealousy is a figment of ones imagination?

3) How do you consider the wives as the purified ahl-bait after reading ayats from the holy qur'an whereby they a couple of them were warned by Allah (swt) ?

Like I stated before, do you have any idea of the Synopsis of Context of the Ayat. Does warning a particular individual oust them from the group?

This ayat has absolutely NOTHING to do with who the Ahl'bayt are.

Gandalf, brother. Please don't clutch at straws!

I am not here to make you change your ways and vice versa. I am giving you my own opinion backed up with the Qur'aan as the primary source.

We have been given the best gift of all.

CHOICE.

We CHOOSE to believe or not. It's a simple formula!

I am well versed in Arabic, Urdu, Hindi and English, therefore have no problems understanding my Faith.

I am not lost or trying to find myself. I am a Muslim following the Ummah of the Prophet PBUH.

I accept all the Messengers family members to be their families and believe this to be the right stance. Some members that did not accept Tawheed were dealt with by Allah, but they were still classed as the family member!

Finally:

071.026 And Noah, said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth!

071.027 "For, if Thou dost leave (any of) them, they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones.

071.028 "O my Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong-doers grant Thou no increase but in perdition!"

Allah is my judge, and Allah knows best.

Salaam.

154

Brother Sholay,

The holy prophet (pbuh) did not consider the holy qur’an enough as a guidance for muslims. If this was so, we would not be here with different interpretations of the same ayat.

In Sahih Bukhari, we find the following hadiths:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/013.smt.html

Book 013, Number 4016:

Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us.
Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away)
'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them.

So though your proposition is similar to Umar (ra) who considered the qur’an has sufficient, this was not the view held by the holy prophet (pbuh).

This is why the quran and the ahl-bait were given to us as guidance.

Why are wives not part of the ahl-bait ? Because from the behavior of some of them (which you dismiss very mildly as jealously), it becomes clear that with their flaws, they cannot be a guidance to the believers as the prophet (pbuh) equated the ahl-bait with the quran.

Secondly, why did the holy prophet (pbuh) take Fatima (ra), his two grandsons, and Ali (ra) to Mubhaila. Simple, to clarify that they alone are the guidance for the Ummah.

Why didn’t he take his other daughters ? Well, accept what the prophet (pbuh) gives you, as this ayat very well stipulates:

[Shakir 59:7] And whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):

Also, since the ahl-bait were the guidance of the Ummah, protected by Allah (swt) through Verse 33:33, defenders of Islam at Mubhaila, none except that woman could go who was the Best of all Women. Let’s see what the prophet (pbuh) said about Fatima (ra):

From Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 61:
Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.”

&

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 819:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Once Fatima came walking and her gait resembled the gait of the Prophet . The Prophet said, “Welcome, O my daughter!” Then he made her sit on his right or on his left side, and then he told her a secret and she started weeping. I asked her, “Why are you weeping?” He again told her a secret and she started laughing. I said, “I never saw happiness so near to sadness as I saw today.” I asked her what the Prophet had told her. She said, “I would never disclose the secret of Allah’s Apostle .” When the Prophet died, I asked her about it. She replied. "The Prophet said.) ‘Every year Gabriel used to revise the Qur’an with me once only, but this year he has done so twice. I think this portends my death, and you will be the first of my family to follow me.’ So I started weeping. Then he said. 'Don’t you like to be the mistress of all the ladies of Paradise or the mistress of all the lady believers? So I laughed for that."

Similarly, all members of the ahl-bait had distinguished positions in the Sight of Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh).

The ahl-bait were exclusive members of an elite group of righteous souls who were sent as a guide to the believers.

Not any individual can enter such a group, lest of all wives who behaved obnoxiously infront of the prophet (pbuh) and gave him distress, and whose relationship from the prophet (pbuh) can be cut off by divorce.

Hope this helps.

155

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:
The holy prophet (pbuh) did not consider the holy qur'an enough as a guidance for muslims. If this was so, we would not be here with different interpretations of the same ayat.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : salaams to all

Gandalf, when will you be able to think in a sound manner? It is Allah (swt) alone who decides what is and what is not enough for Muslims not your infallible imams invented by Shiites. The different interpretations arise because that is what you want and the devil thought such people to tailor it their way.

[quote]
In Sahih Bukhari, we find the following hadiths:Book 013, Number 4016:

Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; these silly shi'ites will NEVER desist in understanding that you cannot take one hadith and construct your folly on it, while not realizing that other hadiths may expose other details that was not found in one hadith.

So read!

Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5879 Narrated by Aisha

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) in his (last) illness asked me to call AbuBakr, her father, and her brother too, ** so that he might write a document for he feared that someone else might be desirous (of succeeding him) and that some claimant may say: I have better claim to it,** whereas Allah and the Faithful do not substantiate the claim of anyone but that of AbuBakr.

Ibrahim says : so Gandalf, see how you enned up making a mockery of yourself? very sorry you fumbled again! But that is expected when you pick and chose the hadiths while omitting others out of pride and wickedness.

[quote]
This is why the quran and the ahl-bait were given to us as guidance.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: and when was that? And why would it is exclude any of his wives or the closest disciples and companions of the Prophet (pbuh) ?

[quote]
Why are wives not part of the ahl-bait ? Because from the behavior of some of them (which you dismiss very mildly as jealously), it becomes clear that with their flaws, they cannot be a guidance to the believers as the prophet (pbuh) equated the ahl-bait with the quran.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: ** you mean the flaws of your infallible imams were alright? So kindly explain why they approved mutah when Allah (swt) forbade it? In which revelation did Allah (swt) approved mutah????

Please tell us, if indeed your gray matter is capable of functioning?? And try not to call me a dog, it will not help you in any way!**

[quote]
From Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 57, Number 61: Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: what logic! Yes the shia logic is indeed the most silliest of them all. so if anyone made Fatima (ra) angry that would anger the Prophet (pbuh) right and that means they disobeyed Allah (swt) right???

hence does this means we have to now erase your first Imam from your fabricated dogma???

Read!

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 8.297 Narrated bySahl bin Sad

There was no name dearer to 'Ali than his nickname ** Abu Turab (the father of dust). ** He used to feel happy whenever he was called by this name. Once Allah's Apostle came to the house of Fatima but did not find 'Ali in the house. So he asked "Where is your cousin?"** She replied, "There was something (a quarrel) between me and him whereupon he got angry with me and went out without having a midday nap in my house."** Allah's Apostle asked a person to look for him. That person came, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! He (Ali) is sleeping in the mosque." So Allah's Apostle went there and found him lying. His upper body cover had fallen off to one side of his body, and so he was covered with dust. ** Allah's Apostle started cleaning the dust from him, saying, "Get up, O Abu Turab! Get up, Abu Turab!" **

Ibrahim says: based on this shia folly in trying to judge people , Now what happens when Ali (ra) angers the Prophet (pbuh) ????

Read!

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.446 Narrated by ** Ali bin Abi Talib**

That Allah's Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle at their house at night and said, ** "Won't you pray?"** 'Ali replied, "O Allah's Apostle! ** Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up." When 'Ali said that to him, Allah's Apostle left ** without saying anything to him.** While the Prophet was leaving, 'Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, "But man is quarrelsome more than anything else." (18.54)**

Or have you not read this……….

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 7.157 Narrated by Al Miswar bin Makhrama

I heard Allah's Apostle who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to ** allow them to marry their daughter to Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless 'Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, ** and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me."

Here try this………

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 5.76 Narrated by Al Miswar bin Makhrama

** 'Ali demanded the hand of the daughter of Abu Jahl. ** Fatima heard of this and went to Allah's Apostle saying, "Your people think that you do not become angry for the sake of your daughters as 'Ali is now going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl." On that Allah's Apostle got up and after his recitation of Tashah-hud, I heard him saying, "Then after! I married one of my daughters to Abu Al-'As bin Al-Rabi' (the husband of Zainab, the daughter of the Prophet ) before Islam and he proved truthful in whatever he said to me. No doubt, Fatima is a part of me, I hate to see her being troubled. ** By Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of Allah's enemy cannot be the wives of one man." So 'Ali gave up that engagement.**

'Al-Miswar further said: -I heard the Prophet talking and he mentioned a son-in-law of his belonging to the tribe of Bani 'Abd-Shams. He highly praised him concerning that relationship and said (whenever) he spoke to me, he spoke the truth, and whenever he promised me, he fulfilled his promise."

Ibrahim says : so you see, when you try to use hadiths in favor of your follies Allah (swt) will expose your follies by revealing what you have been hiding from.

[quote]
The ahl-bait were exclusive members of an elite group of righteous souls who were sent as a guide to the believers.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: what a silly notion, but than again you are right ** because that was the command given to the Jews and they indeed had to follow the priest hood that was from one family , ** but in Islam it did not apply as Allah (swt) made it clear to Muslims , by removing all male children of the Prophet (pbuh) who may have caused this problem in Islam.

Read!

Genesis : 18:

  1. ** For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, ** so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."

Deuteronomy 18

  1. ** The priests, who are Levites--indeed the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the offerings made to the LORD by fire, for that is their inheritance. **

  2. They shall have no inheritance among their brothers; the LORD is their inheritance, as he promised them.

  3. This is the share due the priests from the people who sacrifice a bull or a sheep: the shoulder, the jowls and the inner parts.

  4. You are to give them the firstfruits of your grain, new wine and oil, and the first wool from the shearing of your sheep,

  5. ** for the LORD your God has chosen them and their descendants out of all your tribes to stand and minister in the LORD's name always.**

Ibrahim says : ** so you see! Gandalf your faith is based on Judaism and shi'ism was originated by a Jew as such what you say only applies in Judaism and not in Islam.**

Gandalf dear! Sorry to burst your bubble again and again but I can do no such thing except by the Grace of Allah (swt)

Allah(swt) knows best.

Was salaam
Ibrahim

** anger makes you mad why not be sensible ? **

156

Ibrahim;

Though my post was meant for brother Sholay, it seems like you do not trust him to give an answer.

Must be annoying to you that as a sunni muslim, I do not agree with many a strange explanations that you dish out to innocent observers.

So now, let's burst the bubble.

Unlike the qur'an, hadiths have to be judged according to their authenticity.

Just as you very easily dismiss the hadiths pin-pointing out the flaws of the prophet's (pbuh) companions and wives - though for some you have to eat the dust due to ayats in the qur'an - there are good reasons to believe that the hadiths you posted alleging what you will is not what it seems.

For arguments sake, assuming Hadith 8.297 is correct, it states that Ali (ra) was angry on Fatima (ra). It does not say that Fatima was angered by Ali (ra). Hence, you are clutching on false straws.

Hadith 9.446 we can reject simply because those who know Ali (ra) know that he would not 1) Talk to the holy prophet (pbuh) in this manner & 2) Never delay prayers. Enouugh said on this.

Similarly, hadith 5.76 can be dismissed because Ali (ra) in doing anything would ask the prophet's (pbuh) permission. In addition, the love that Ali (ra) had for Fatima (ra) was intense and he only re-married after Fatima (ra) passed away.

To see their relationship, I suggest you browse through the following sermon in Najhul Balaghah by Ali (ra):

Sermon 210

Certainly what is current among the people is both right and wrong, true and false, repealing and repealed, general and particular, definite and indefinite, exact and surmised.

Even during the Prophet's days false sayings had been attributed to him, so much so that he had to say during his sermon that, "Whoever attributes falsehoods to me makes his abode in Hell."

And read Sermon 202 to understand the relationship between two members of the infallible ahl-bait:

Sermon 202

O' Prophet of Allah, peace be upon you from me and from your daughter who has come to you and who has hastened to meet you. O' Prophet of Allah, my patience about your chosen (daughter) has been exhausted, and my power of endurance has weakened, except that I have ground for consolation in having endured the great hardship and heart-rending event of your separation. I laid you down in your grave when your last breath had passed (when your head was) between my neck and chest.

... Verily we are Allah's and verily unto Him shall we return. (Qur'an 2:156)

Now. the trust has been returned and what had been given has been taken back. As to my grief, it knows no bounds, and as to my nights. they will remain sleepless till Allah chooses for me the house in which you are now residing.

Certainly, your daughter would apprise you of the joining together of your [1] ummah (people) for oppressing her. You ask her in detail and get all the news about the position. This has happened when a long time had not elapsed and your remembrance had not disappeared.

My salam (salutation) be on you both, the salam of a grief stricken not a disgusted or hateful person; for if I go away it is not because I am weary (of you), and if I stay it is not due to lack of belief in what Allah has promised the endurers.

Be careful of what you say of the members of Mubhaila and the Cloak.

157

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:

Must be annoying to you that as a sunni muslim, I do not agree with many a strange explanations that you dish out to innocent observers.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : Salaams to all

ah the liar ( Gandalf) strikes again! Muslims do not behave like you but shias . yes they have a need to lie and will lie since they believe it is part of their faith. In fact according to you the Prophets also lied, so gnadalf will also lie, what absurdity???. Well that sums up your ability to understand the Qur’an , don’t it?

[quote]
So now, let's burst the bubble.

Unlike the qur'an, hadiths have to be judged according to their authenticity.
[/quote]

Ibrahim say: s and you, the deceiving shia will be able to do that and others will not , right?

[quote]
Just as you very easily dismiss the hadiths pin-pointing out the flaws of the prophet's (pbuh) companions and wives
[/quote]

Ibrahim says hello, what hadiths did I dismiss?? So stop lying. Your conjecture on the hadiths are not worth anything so don’t expect anyone to affirm your delusions but whatever hadith that are found in the sahihs are accepted by Muslims. But for shias is another issue altogether.

[quote]
- though for some you have to eat the dust due to ayats in the qur'an - there are good reasons to believe that the hadiths you posted alleging what you will is not what it seems.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Sure it does not! because it goes against your assertions and burst all your assertions you have made so far. which is why it would be impossible to discuss with a shia, for they will selectively edit the Qur’an and hadith to suit their follies.

** Sorry had to snip the rest of your delusions and your argument sake follies based on your whims and fancies ** , but it seems like always you will have no courage to face the facts , except go around in circles or vomit your filth and escape like A1shah ( BTW your words and actions are identical )

** Now as I recall this is the third time I am asking you to tell us why your infallible imams sanctioned prostitution (temporary marriage/mutah) which was practiced by the pagans and Arabs before Islam was established fully and subsequently forbidden by Allah (swt) his Rasool (pbuh) and even Ali (ra) **

were your infallible imams going against the Qur’an or did they have new revelation from Allah (swt) that abrogated the Qur’an??? (* nauzubillah)

** In addition I would like to know why you guys believe your Qur’an is hidden in a cave when it has already been discovered in 1947?? **

Work on it Gandalf! , it is embarrassing to note that you will not answer these simple questions but resort to calling me a dog instead.

Allah (swt) knows best

Was salaam
Ibrahim

** Gandalf, control your vile mouth and strengthen your argument **

[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited May 29, 2002).]

158

Dear Ibrahim AOA
Is’nt it that your mind is pre set that all the Shi’a r liars or at least the majority and they should be declared non-muslims like Qadiani’s. At least it appears so from your postings.
Correct me if I am wrong because you and FF give twisting answers to direct questions.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

159

[quote]
Originally posted by Gandalf:
**....
So though your proposition is similar to Umar (ra) who considered the qur'an has sufficient, this was not the view held by the holy prophet (pbuh).

This is why the quran and the ahl-bait were given to us as guidance......
[/quote]

Read Surah Baqara:
02.002 This is the book; in it is guidance, sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

do you have a doubt? Allah SWT says that Quran is THE guidance, whose word do you take?

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

160

[quote]
Originally posted by mm10:
Dear Ibrahim AOA, Is'nt it that your mind is pre set that all the Shi'a r liars
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Wa Alaikum salaam wa Rahmathulla

Dear mm10, If I have a preset mind, why would I be talking to you or any other shia? So think, it is only on the hope that at least some of you may see the light and save yourselves from being blinded by blind hate and judging people whom you hardly know. Islam enjoins accepting the truth and forbidding the falsehood. IF you agree, than I am duty bound to expose the falsehood that shi'ites practice and presch against Islam, not all shi'ites because amongst them are so many sects and some of them are the vilest and others are very close to Islam. Again let me remind you I am not the judge here, I merely expose as what is their dogma, which they tend to hide (taqiyah /deception) . so do try to find out where you stand, if you have a belief that says only 3 people were Muslims and the rest reneged Islam after the demise of the Prophet (pbuh) which is a shia founding belief, then surely none can accept this, as part of Islam and have to condemn those who teach such things.

[quote]
or at least the majority and they should be declared non-muslims like Qadiani's.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; declaring people as Muslims or Non Muslims is not my work or objective. But identifying the Shiite beliefs and how it differs from Islam is what I am talking about in this forum. Like I said a shis will deny he is not a shsi and a shia will claim I am from this or that shia sect and the other shia sect is a heretic sect . so identify which shia sect you belong to and than find out why there are so many shia sects and what are the differences between them, should give you a clear picture as to where you stand .

So in this process, one has to understand that the religion given by Allah (swt) is Islam not shi'ism or ahmedism or any other ism, and the practice/belief/faith of the shia is based shi'ism not Islam, that should give you a CLEAR picture of what I am saying. They may call themselves what ever they want, but they have deviated from the Islam Allah (swt) conveyed in the Qur'an and have tried to undermine the Qur'an and the people whom Allah (swt) had blessed.

[quote]
At least it appears so from your postings.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: it may appear like that when you have focused on or based your notions within your boundary markers that your parents and community had established for you

[quote]
Correct me if I am wrong because you and FF give twisting answers to direct questions.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: can you quote the twisting answers I or Brother Fact Finder had given, because if that is what you understand, by what may have been conveyed to you, than what use is there in answering you?

Was salaam
Ibrahim

** success is the other side of failure **