shia's and sunni's

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Changez_like: That was a very good question by Andhra! Everyone has a right to understand Islam and all these different sects. Infact we should enlighten Andhra our religion. You ever thought, hez one of the few hindus here who actively participates in the Religion forum. Instead of showing some respect to him, you guys answer him with idiotic replies!! Dont act like a kid and show all non-believers what Islam is all about!!! You never know your words can one day change someones life or destroy it! Think about it.

Andhra: They are Muslims! With some different beliefs. I dont know much about shias either. By the way I am a sunni.

Aatif

102

***** GROUND REALITIES ABOUT SHIAS!!*****

Shias believe and have faith on

ONE GOD!
the HOLY Book QURAN ! show me if v have even chnaged one word mubarak or even dot mubarak for that matter..

HOLY PROPHET MOHAMMAD (pbuh) is the seal of PROPHETs!

V have respect and i mean ALOT of respect for SAHABAs (RA) but for the ones who knew the real place of Ahl-e-Bait (Family of Holy Prophet)and even if they knew it the respected them in the way they desrved it.

and to understand SHIAs u must understand
the rutba of the family of Holy Prophet.
Surah-e-Kausar was revealed on the birth of Janab-e-Fatima and Surah Dahr is all praise for the Imam Ali (A.S) family

GUys for heavens sakes whts wrong with u !
esp the ones who want to kill shias
r v being killed cuz shias love the family of Holy Prophet???

U tell me something ... will a person love his friends more than his family????

So please try to understand the real Importance of the family of the prophet of all of the Universe!

103

Anyone who identifies himself or herself with
a sect breaks all bonds with the Prophet.

I am a muslim not a shia, not a sunni or anything else.

104

[quote]
Originally posted by cool down:
***Anyone who identifies himself or herself with
a sect breaks all bonds with the Prophet.*

I am a muslim not a shia, not a sunni or anything else.**
[/quote]

That makes you a Sunni. Since, many Sunni Muslims are not even aware they are Sunnis, they just know they are Muslims. This is especially true in areas, where there are hardly any Shias, for example, Africa, Albania etc.

The word Sunni is used to denote ** Mainstream Islam ** - to denote that they are following ** JUST WHAT IS ISLAM **, not any sect.

Infact, Sunni usually used to denote someone who is not a Shia, Qadiani, Kharji etc, but just a Muslim.

But, identifying yourself with Sunni Islam is important, because the Shiite missionaries financed and promoted by the Iranian government are working very hard to convert the unsuspecting and naiive Muslims to Shiism - and they have even made some gains in Sri Lanka and Africa.

The kind of Islam that you've described above is ** NOTHING BUT SUNNI ISLAM **. For example, if you visit some Islamic website, it'll be a Sunni website, but you'll hardly see the word "Sunni" but only "Muslim" . They'll call themselves "Sunnis" very occasionally to differentiate themselves from the deviant groups and to identify themselves with mainstream Islam.

105

[quote]
Originally posted by cool down:
***Anyone who identifies himself or herself with
a sect breaks all bonds with the Prophet.*

I am a muslim not a shia, not a sunni or anything else.**
[/quote]

i would like to agree with you but where did you find this info or is it your opinion?

106

Thanks bro for the sermon, if you look at number of his posts, he is a bit old on the forum for now, he is not here to “learn” but to have fun with religion, if you want to make sure go in other threads he’s been posting in.

when he did join, we gave him the message and were under impression that he really wanted to learn, but then he showed the signs of “I want to learn” (but don’t wan’t to accept the truth and have fun) type mentality. anyway, I’d leave you to give it a try

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

107

[quote]
Originally posted by Turab:
** ONE GOD!
the HOLY Book QURAN ! show me if v have even chnaged one word mubarak or even dot mubarak for that matter.. **
[/quote]

No Taqiyah please. Want me to quote from Kafi ?

**

[quote]
V have respect and i mean ALOT of respect for SAHABAs (RA) but for the ones **
[/quote]

No Taqiyah please. Just exactly how many are these Sahaabah ?? According to some Shias it's ** JUST 3 SAHAABAS *, while according to others it's * JUST 7 SAHAABA **.

Interesting !

**

[quote]

and to understand SHIAs u must understand
the rutba of the family of Holy Prophet. **
[/quote]

** But HATRED for the Holy Prophet(S)'s wives comes under the LOVE OF his FAMILY ??? **

No Taqiyah please.

Why don't you respect his offspring from his other daughter ? Also Unlike the Yemeni Zaidi Shias, why don't you respect Zaid (who was your 6th Imam and also from the offspring of the Holy Prophet(S)) ? His only sin was that he had refused to curse the 2 Khalifa - and so not only you people dumped him and went for Imam Ja'far, but you call him different names .

** Is that your love for the family of the Holy Prophet (S) ?? Is your love ONLY LIMITED to cursing our beloved Sahabaah ?? ** And, if your Imam refuses to curse the Sahaabah, you dump him and call him different names ???

[quote]
**
r v being killed cuz shias love the family of Holy Prophet???
[/quote]
**

No Taqiyah please.

Why are the Shias killing the Mainstream Muslims in Iran ? Why did the Shias support the Crusaders against the Muslims during the time of Saladdin ? Why did the President of Syria (who is Shiite) give away Golan Heights to Israel so easily ? Why do Shias sympathise with the Hindus against the Mainstream Muslims in India?

And ** Why do Shias spit/urinate in the food before serving it to their Sunni guests ? ** Not all do it, but many still do it.

Also, Muslims are being persecuted brutally and killed in ** Chechnya, Uighuristan(China), etc ** - Why don't the Shia volunteer to fight for them ?

It's funny how you forgot to mention about the concept of Imamate in Shiism.

[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 15, 2002).]

108

changes - you have over 700 posts and are still not aware of andhra and his poisonous hindu mind. I am sure if you have been following his posts and questions put to us, you will find that he is nothing but a stirrer. I actually believe he should not be allowed on the religios forum. my belief maybe but he just irritates us all. hes a

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/devil.gif

in disguise

109

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:

No, Andhra, Shias are your brothers. I come from India, and it is pretty apparent there that the SHIAS AND HINDUS HAVE COMMON ENEMITY AGAINST ISLAM AND MAINSTREAM MUSLIMS. <<
**

I love Shias. **
**
[/quote]

** Shia-Hindu Bhai Bhai. **

110

i think you want to address Atif, not me

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

111

saima and changez: I dunno andhra personally .. you guyz been around here for a while! oh well .. I am not trying to convert anyone to Islam. And I dont like to participate in religion debates either. Andhra, I read some of your old posts. Ive seen your pics on Image Gallery too. You are prolly in your late 20s or early 30s now. Show some respect to this religion and if you cant, then dont make fun of it either!! You are just making a mockery of yourself and your community here.

Aatif

112

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:
** ** But HATRED for the Holy Prophet(S)'s wives comes under the LOVE OF his FAMILY ??? **

No Taqiyah please.

Why don't you respect his offspring from his other daughter ? Also Unlike the Yemeni Zaidi Shias, why don't you respect Zaid (who was your 6th Imam and also from the offspring of the Holy Prophet(S)) ? His only sin was that he had refused to curse the 2 Khalifa - and so not only you people dumped him and went for Imam Ja'far, but you call him different names .

** Is that your love for the family of the Holy Prophet (S) ?? Is your love ONLY LIMITED to cursing our beloved Sahabaah ?? ** And, if your Imam refuses to curse the Sahaabah, you dump him and call him different names ???

[QUOTE]
**
r v being killed cuz shias love the family of Holy Prophet???
[/quote]
**

No Taqiyah please.

Why are the Shias killing the Mainstream Muslims in Iran ? Why did the Shias support the Crusaders against the Muslims during the time of Saladdin ? Why did the President of Syria (who is Shiite) give away Golan Heights to Israel so easily ? Why do Shias sympathise with the Hindus against the Mainstream Muslims in India?

And ** Why do Shias spit/urinate in the food before serving it to their Sunni guests ? ** Not all do it, but many still do it.

Also, Muslims are being persecuted brutally and killed in ** Chechnya, Uighuristan(China), etc ** - Why don't the Shia volunteer to fight for them ?

It's funny how you forgot to mention about the concept of Imamate in Shiism.

[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 15, 2002).]**
[/QUOTE]

The voice of a broken tape recorder once again.

On behalf of the shias brothers/sisters on this forum:

1) Shias believe in the Oneness of Allah (swt)
2) Shias believe in the finality of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), who was the greatest of all Messengers.
3) Shias love the ahl-bait of the prophet (pbuh)
4) Shias love the righteous wives of the prophet (pbuh) and the righteous sahabah Ikram.
5)Shias believe in the Completeness of the Holy Qur'an in its current form - which cannot be altered as it's protection is guaranteed by Allah (swt)
6)Shias perform the 5 farz salats and all the sunnat and nafil prayers.
7) Shias perform Hajj
8) Shias perform Fasting in Ramadan
9) Shias give ZAKAT
10) Shias give KHUMS (20 % of yearly earnings/savings) in addition to the 2.5 % Zakat requirement
11) Shias perform Jihad (al Asghar to Jihad al Akbar)
12) Shias do not classify All their hadiths as authentic. Any hadith that contradicts the qur'an is rejected.

Hope this helps.

113

I see Saima and Changez here are quite anxious to poison Aatif’s mind aginst me!!!

Have Fun!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway Aatif bhai, if you follow the thread once again, I asked one simple question..

Namely since Shias accept Prophet Mohammed, Allah and Koran, the basic requirements to be called a Muslim, why do Non-Shias concentrate on shia’s opinions on Prophet’s family?

Look at all the posts after that and see how the thread gets either sidetracked or the same name calling happens and you will understand why I don’t do too many serious debates in Religious section!!

Anyway, I still don’t have my answer.
Shias seem all right to me. They didn’t put up a controversial Prophet like Ahmediyas seem to do.

114

You are the first person ive heard of with the same name as me!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Turab:
******* GROUND REALITIES ABOUT SHIAS!!*****

Shias believe and have faith on

ONE GOD!
the HOLY Book QURAN ! show me if v have even chnaged one word mubarak or even dot mubarak for that matter..

HOLY PROPHET MOHAMMAD (pbuh) is the seal of PROPHETs!

V have respect and i mean ALOT of respect for SAHABAs (RA) but for the ones who knew the real place of Ahl-e-Bait (Family of Holy Prophet)and even if they knew it the respected them in the way they desrved it.

and to understand SHIAs u must understand
the rutba of the family of Holy Prophet.
Surah-e-Kausar was revealed on the birth of Janab-e-Fatima and Surah Dahr is all praise for the Imam Ali (A.S) family

GUys for heavens sakes whts wrong with u !
esp the ones who want to kill shias
r v being killed cuz shias love the family of Holy Prophet???

U tell me something ... will a person love his friends more than his family????

So please try to understand the real Importance of the family of the prophet of all of the Universe!

**
[/quote]

115

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**
Shias seem all right to me. They didn't put up a controversial Prophet like Ahmediyas seem to do.**
[/quote]

** Shia-Hindu Bhai Bhai. **

116

[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
I see Saima and Changez here are quite anxious to poison Aatif's mind aginst me!!!
....
[/quote]

for you it might be "poisoning" but for us, its telling the truth.... yeah many a times truth really hurts

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

117

Andhra

Please give us a break!!

You know very well that if you HONESTLY had any intentions of learniing about the Islamic Faith you can:

Contact a local Islamic Scholar in person,

Visit numerous sites on the Net,

Speak to fellow Muslims, wherever you live.

But most importantly, you can READ THE QUR'AAN!!!!!

However, with all the above choices, you decide to learn from a Pakistani based Chat Forum!

Not even an Indian Forum (so it looks credible)

Maybe this sums up your capabilities?

And you want poor Aatif to believe you are honestly and genuinely interested in Islam.

We'll leave it to him to teach you then!

118

Contact a local Islamic Scholar in person<<

How many Muslim members here do that and post their experiences?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Visit numerous sites on the Net,<<

I do!!!

Speak to fellow Muslims, wherever you live.<<

I speak with Muslims. Pakistani Muslims by the way.

But most importantly, you can READ THE QUR’AAN!!!<<<

You bet I did!!! Since you already started this campaign against me, I assume you read the threads I opened in Religion Forum!!
I usually quote from Koran and other Islamic WEb Sites.

However, with all the above choices, you decide to learn from a Pakistani based Chat Forum!
<<

Why not?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

119

Just to add one thing in this long discussion, another basic reason for criticizing Shias is there belief of declaring their "Imams" masoom. It is only the Prophets (as) that can have this status. Therefore, awarding a masoom (someone who cannot commit sin) status to non-Prophets is a serious violation of the belief on Prophets, which is one of the basic pillars of Islam. Dimolishing any of these pillars makes one's Iman (faith) really questionable.

Wallahu Alam

120

[quote]
Originally posted by ramyssysIX:
** another basic reason for criticizing Shias is there belief of declaring their "Imams" masoom. It is only the Prophets (as) that can have this status. Therefore, awarding a masoom (someone who cannot commit sin) status to non-Prophets is a serious violation of the belief on Prophets, which is one of the basic pillars of Islam. **
[/quote]

But, when their ** 6th Imam ** (Imam Zaid) refused to curse the pious Sahaaba, they ** dumped him ** and accused him of different things !!!

I mean, even though the Shias very ** adamantly insist ** that their Imams are Ma'soom (unable to sin), but when their 6th Imam (Zaid) refused to curse the Sahaaba, they dumped him and went for Imam Ja'far !!!

It's in the nature of things that ** any ideology except the TRUTH will be polluted with CONTRADICTIONS AND DISCREPANCIES. **