Salam everyone,
Since this is a religious forum and most of you represent the majority of Islam, I am interested in finding out your opinions about shia/Jaferi sect. I have seen/heard numerous allegations from extremist religious organizations banning them as “Kafirs”. I wanted to get your point of you to serve as a random survey. So, what do you guys think? Are those religious organizations right? what 's your opinion??
Shias' have explained the Quran in a different way, I have heard all this as well. But they have the same source with a bit of different theology. At least they are not creating a new thing as Ahmadis did, took a point of Quran and declared Nabuat. Wah kia baat hay Mirza sahib kee, wala hee, Qaal Mirza ... Ustaad-ul-Kazzaab. Sorry yaar Arabic main likh gayya hoon magar yeh Arabic main hee acha lagta hay. Read the history of Islam After the death of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), there were many like Mr. Mirza but were taught the lessons becuase Muslims where not "toham parast" in those days so those false Nabis couldn't spread there religions as Mr. Mirza did. Now please would no one tell me that Ahamadiat is Islam as well, becuase I already know how much Islam Ahmadiat is. I have read the Quran translated and explained by Ahmadi Scholars. Fortunately I understand Arabic so I dont need the translation otherwise they have ruined the true sense of Quran.
I wont suggest that anyone should read Quran printed, translated, or explained by any Ahmadi or Ahmadia movement. The problem is most of the people can't understand arabic and they read the translation. Ahmadis have translated wrong, they have made the joke of the translation I would say. DO NOT READ THAT TRASLATION or EXPLANATORY NOTES.
Najim sahib,
whats your opinion on the allegation of fundamentalist islamic groups declaring Shias as Kafir?? Do you think they are Kafir, I mean, should we buy into their allegation and if so, on what reasoning??
I am not sure about Ahmedis, I spoke to one Ahmadi, and she said that they believe in Prophet as last prophet and follow the same Quran. Ustaad-ul-Kazzaab, thats not that Ghari Arabic, I can understand that much Dakeek urdu... :) But you are right, I think they lack the logical reasoning for the base of their theology since their leader was only borned in last century, if he was the savior of mankind, why didn't he come right after Prophet??
I am a sunni, as they call me. I don’t believe in sects, specially in Islam. We have one Allah, one Quran, and one prophet Muhammad. Why are divided in sects and fighting against each other? Do u have any idea that who made these sects? Those people did it who hated Islam, and who were afraid that Islam will takeover every one’s heart.
Pakistan Zindabad
Imranz
Question : What is "extremist religious organizations" and "fundamentalist islamic groups" ??? Please guide me.. then i will be able to answer u'r question in a better way.
Janab,
I quoted from newspaper, they mentioned that Sipa-i-Sahaba as one of the examples for such organization... So here you go... now where is your opinion... :)
Shias are the only sect of Islam that do not get persecuted in india. Sunnis get persecuted but the hindus are afraid of shias. When I convert in a couple of years, I will be shia.
Well,
I would not like to comment on it due to lack of knowledge, i think the scholars can judge that better than u, me and n e 1 else here.
I think u better check some books by the great scholars of Saudia Arabia, But i think if someone can prove a right or a wrong with a ayat or a hadith (authentic one) then we can believe it.
1 more thing, u should have u'r own brain too, so i think should not believe or say whats written in newspaper. Aap ki ittala key liay arz hay key there is no word like extremists or fundamentalists in Islam. For God sake stop thinking with the brains of Americans, jews or hindus!!.
[This message has been edited by Friendly_Ghost (edited 10-25-98).]
Coolio! I agree with you that Shias are a tough breed... and do not take crap from anyone. I am a suni (for the difference sake) but I used to go to Imambargah with my shia friends (free food) and used to listen to the sermons... I am glad someone stood and fought against Yazid... There is alot we can learn from Hassan & hussain sacrifises. Those who want to fight injustice in Pakistani system where it is difficult to be different (for example christain or Ahamedis) there is a lesson in shia movement.
As we all know that "you have to fight for your right to Party"
But aren't those scholars wahabis? One thing, what are you talking about? How am I thinkinhg like Jews, Americans or hindus?
Coolio,who are you anyway?
you hindu,muslim, etc etc.. what are you?
or may be you are a mexican?
cuz alot of mexicans want to become muslim and half of their family is muslim,and they are thinking to become muslim in two yrs too,like you always mention in your posts,so what are you?? a mexican
friendly Ghost sahib,
I deal with my own brain than an average muslim, I don't believe in blind faith on any mullah whose job is to hold the Jamaat prayers. The only reason why I used the term extremist is because that why it is easier for people to differentiate. I don't know how much you know about Pakistani religious political parties, but any common knowledgable person wouldn't keep Sipa Sahaba and Jamat-i-Islami in the same category.
Secondly, if you don't have opinion regarding this matter then thats fine. Thanks for the advice of contacting Saudi Arabian scholars, I don't hold Saudis respectable enough to be humble human beings let alone scholars (obviously, speaking about the majority). In my opinion, they are the most arrogant nation in the world. I have heard and seen how they treat other nationals in their country.
Coolio,
Yes, Scholars of Saudi Arabia are wahabis, In fact, Wahabiyat started from Saudi Arabia.
Mexican?? That's not that funny. I am a christian.
coolio:
if you are christian how come you even know about wahabis,that is deep,stop playing games man.
Guest
You make me sick. Whay can't a non-muslim know about divisions in Islam. Muslims profess to know about other religions and lot more about Christanity then an average christian. Why are you so interested in knowing what coolio is? What difference will it make to your narrow mind.
You are the one playing games and going after coolio.
I am pretty sure you are a muslim.....
May be you know about other religions I don't,and why I need to know anyway?since I'm muslim,that means I know the truth,coolio is the one in evey forum plays game and acts like some times he knows about Islam too much and some times he acts like he does not know and ask sometimes very simple question just to burn someone's ass.If I'm making you sick or making you throw up,then take some haldi and phitkari.
Hedayat:
May be you know about other religions I don't,and why I need to know anyway?since I'm muslim,that means I know the truth,coolio is the one in evey forum plays game and acts like some times he knows about Islam too much and some times he acts like he does not know and asks sometimes very simple questions just to burn someone's ass.If I'm making you sick or making you throw up,then take some haldi and phitkari.
Or think about your old imambada memories it will make you feel better.
Hi
Imran Sahab:
Aap to naraz ho gaay shayad! Yaar i just meant to say that we should not use words like fundamentalists and extremists!! See i have lived in Pakistan too, and i don't think those words were required there, u could have easily used the word religious organisations or watever. Neways.
Well u r very much right in saying we should not have blind faith in our imams, and scholars BUT meray bhai its limited, once u get an evidence which is authentic then u have to believe it blindly. I mean if u get an Ayat or an authentic hadith, then its compulsory for u to believe it without thinking its logic.
Well, about Saudis, sadly u r right about the general Saudis but believe me yaar their scholars are the best in the world. I agree with u about their treatment with expats, not only in Saudi, its all over Gulf. But dear i know their scholars too, (since i am living in a Gulf country) believe me scholars here are very much right, b'cos their manhaj is Quran and Sunnah, and there is very less shirk and bid'aat in here unlike the subcontinent.
Aur eik baat batata hoon, Eik hadith hay agar mujhay milay gee to i will write here but us main Prophet pbuh ney kaha hay jo duniya main jiss ki pairwi keray ga woh akhrat main usi key sath uthaya jaayga.
So that was my point!!. As far as Shiasm is concerned, the scholars here say they have lots of wrong believes.
COOLIO :
Sikhs are a strong breed too, they also don't get persecuted, hindus r afraid of sikhs also, y don't u become a sikh. Man u have to consider the believes and faith of a religion not its people.
HEDAYAT:
Yaar Hazrat Hassan and Hazrat Hussain are the respected personalities of the Muslim Ummah. As far as learning is concerned we have to learn from Holy Prophet, his Sahaba, Hazrat Hassan, Hazrat Hussain i mean everybody!!! Remember when the whole world was in dark who fought against Evils ... Our beloved Holy Prophet pbuh....
In my opinion Shias' are not KAFIR, as I have already said they have explained the Quran with a different aspect. There are some conflictions as far as Shia's and Sunnys are concerned but they are ignore-able. I wont agree with Sipah-e-Sahabas arguments. In my term they are "dan-gers" (savages). They dont know the religion properly by themselves and let fighting for it. I dont know what is going on in Pakistan .... I dont take part in these religious conflicts.
Mazhab nahee sikhata, aapas main bair rakhna.
Qadiyanis also have explained the Quran with a different aspect !! so what do u say now Najim Sahab.
Well, i have hardly heard of Sipah-e-sahaba but u know what the Scholars here in Arab and other great scholars of Islam have already said that Shias have lots of believes which are against Islam.
Ofcourse, we r no 1 to decide who is Kafir and who is a Muslim. Only a person who has excellent knowledge of Quran and Sunnah can comment on it. Hamaray jaisay lalu panju nahin!!.
[This message has been edited by Friendly_Ghost (edited 10-26-98).]