An interesting on the ups and downs in the relationship between Shias and Sunnis in subcontinent’s history.
??? - ?BBC Urdu? - ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?](پاکستان - BBC Urdu - متحدہ ہندوستان اور شیعہ سنی کشمکش )
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Informative. Seems that rulers like Ghaznavi and Ghoris attacked just for the sake of loot as they murdered Muslims too and we still call them butt-shikan 
If we see at Sufi saints, they were from Shia origin (Sachal Sarmast, Shah Latif and Qalandar Shahbaz), but they are equally adored by masses irrespective of the sect they follow.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
The article is just a brief summary. Shia rule in Lucknow and Awadh is also an important aspect to study to know the inter-sect relationships.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
^ Brief and to the point.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
But its kinda incomplete without mentioning Awadh and Lucknow, as most of the shia traditions like Tazia, Marsia started from those areas.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Like he has mentioned how the Moghul sultanate from Babar to Shahjahan has remained some sort of secular. Babar took the help of Persians before attacking the subcontinent, and almost all of moghul sultanate was quite inclusive. The situation started deteriorating from Aurangzeb's tenure, when he has fatwa Aurangzebi issued and declared Shias as kafirs and even some of them were executed. And then what impact Shah Waliullah made on the subcontinent. Yes it has briefly discussed Lucknow and Wadh as well, and how Kashmir was handed over to Akbar due to the sectarian issues (resulting in the end of Kashmiri independence).
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
oh just read one tab 
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Like he has mentioned how the Moghul sultanate from Babar to Shahjahan has remained some sort of secular. Babar took the help of Persians before attacking the subcontinent, and almost all of moghul sultanate was quite inclusive. The situation started deteriorating from Aurangzeb's tenure, when he has fatwa Aurangzebi issued and declared Shias as kafirs and even some of them were executed. And then what impact Shah Waliullah made on the subcontinent. Yes it has briefly discussed Lucknow and Wadh as well, and how Kashmir was handed over to Akbar due to the sectarian issues (resulting in the end of Kashmiri independence).
I think Hmayon was asked by Shah e Iran to convert to Shia. This was a condition to help him out against Sher Shah Suri
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Read the other ones, it’s quite interesting. I think we should keep it for another day to discuss about fatawaa Aurangzebi and the impact of shah waliullah.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
So it was shah waliullah who had defeated Shia jurists in their arguments at the palace? I think humayun's wife was Persian and might as well be Shiite.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
So it was shah waliullah who had defeated Shia jurists in their arguments at the palace? I think humayun's wife was Persian and might as well be Shiite.
I haven't read much about shah waliullah (just a brief introduction in pakistan studies). according to this article the deobandi school of thought was based upon his work. The article does mention that Humayun did (briefly) convert to shiaism to garner Persian help in defeating sher shah Suri.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
So it was shah waliullah who had defeated Shia jurists in their arguments at the palace? I think humayun's wife was Persian and might as well be Shiite.
Yes Hamida Banu Begum was Persian, but Akbar met her in Sindh (District Dadu). She agreed to marry Humayon after refusing for several times.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
there was rivalry between persian shias and turk sunnis from the times of mughal
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
there was rivalry between persian shias and turk sunnis from the times of mughal
Yes but that rivalry was mostly related to debates and stuff, it has taken a deadly and dangerous turn now. When ever sectarianism has increased external forces have had a chance to intervene. We can see what ever is happening in the Middle East at the moment.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Shias also faced persecution in India in Kashmir for centuries, by the Sunni invaders of the region which resulted in massacre of many Shias and as a result most of them had to flee the region.[SUP][32]](Islam in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Shias in Kashmir in subsequent years had to pass through the most atrocious period of their history. Plunder, loot and massacres which came to be known as ‘Taarajs’ virtually devastated the community. History records 10 such Taarajs also known as ‘Taraj-e-Shia’ between 15th to 19th century in 1548, 1585, 1635, 1686, 1719, 1741, 1762, 1801, 1830, 1872 during which the Shia habitations were plundered, people slaughtered, libraries burnt and their sacred sites desecrated.[SUP][32]](Islam in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Such was the reign of terror during this period that the community widely went into the practice of Taqya in order to preserve their lives and the honor of their womenfolk.[SUP][32]](Islam in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Village after village disappeared, with community members either migrating to safety further north or dissolving in the majority faith. The persecution suffered by Shias in Kashmir during the successive foreign rules was not new for the community. Many of the standard bearers of Shia’ism, likeSa’adaat or the descendants of the Prophet Mohammad and other missionaries who played a key role in spread of the faith in Kashmir, had left their home lands forced by similar situations
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
^ Shias have been ruling Kashmir for centuries, but at the moment only Gilgit/Baltistan in Azad Kashmir and Kargil in IOK are Shia dominated.
What would be the proportion of Shias among Indian Muslims?
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
there was rivalry between persian shias and turk sunnis from the times of mughal
Did Iran always remained under shia influence? I think it was Safavid ( contemporaries of Mughals) who made Shiiasm as official sect in Iran.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
^ Shias have been ruling Kashmir for centuries, but at the moment only Gilgit/Baltistan in Azad Kashmir and Kargil in IOK are Shia dominated.
What would be the proportion of Shias among Indian Muslims?
nearly 20 to 30%..
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Yes but that rivalry was mostly related to debates and stuff, it has taken a deadly and dangerous turn now. When ever sectarianism has increased external forces have had a chance to intervene. We can see what ever is happening in the Middle East at the moment.
this conflict was one of the major factors in fall of Baghdad. these debates (Manazras) were pivotal part of Baghdad's society, when Mongols were forwarding on their borders.
Re: Shia Sunni relations in the subcontinent
Did Iran always remained under shia influence? I think it was Safavid ( contemporaries of Mughals) who made Shiiasm as official sect in Iran.
Persians were sunnis till 1500's. Imam Ghazali and Imam Abu Hanifa were Persians. They were converted to Shiaism by force, its interesting that Iraq became majority Shias in the 19th century I believe.