Re: Shia Sunni Dialogue
Asking help from Allah and asking help from people around us like brothers/sister etc is very different. Let me try to explain.
Most of our actions in day to day life can be divided into two categories.
Category1: These form the overwhelming bulk of our actions and are based on rational & practical understanding of how things work in this world. Like you get up in the mroning and take your breakfast. You do that for you know that it will give you the energy you need. You start your car for it will take you to your workplace. You work for it pays you. etc. etc. All these actions have one "reason" behind them that they yield a particular outcome that is reproducible and identifiable. Like pressing the swtich, turns on the light bulb, drinking water quenches thirst etc. All these are actions that yield the same results every time we do (unless another force of nature comes in the way). When you ask help from your brotehr and sister it is the same "principle". You ask him to help you pick a box, you are counting on the his power. You ask help from government for your project, coz it can give you money. etc. By asking from these people you rely on same principles of physics that we see operating in nature which are reproducible, measureable and identifiable and are not abstract like "prayer".
**Category2: **These are the actions based upon "religious" beleifs. These actions DO NOT yield a demonstrable, measurable, identifiable and most importantly reporducible results. Like you get up in the morning and pray to Allah for a salary raise. Now whether you get a raise or you do not cannot be "proven" to have happened as a result of the prayer. Similarly, you give "Sadaqa" and you believe that this will have "barkat" in your money, again this is a phenomenon that is not measurable or reproducible.
Now the prayer also belongs to category 2. You cannot equate the actions of category 1 with 2. You cannot equate asking your brother with asking Allah. As you yourself have pointed out
These are actions of category 1.
We will ofcourse not ask Allah for glass of water. Similarly you will not ask Hz Ali ra for glass of water, you will not ask Hz Ali ra to teach you English. You will never ask him for anything that i mentioned in actions of category 1.
You will only ask him for things that you ask Allah! or that people ask their dieties, that a christian asks Jesus, that a Hindu asks Ram, that a some sunnis ask from Pir Abdul Qadir Jeelani and that i ask Allah alone.
So i hope i have explained that why you cannot consider askign Allah and asking your brother/sister the same thing.
Very Nice reply Icon....
You Divided asking for help in two categories.... One sort of help is that which we can have from our acquaitances, friends, relatives and the other is which we have to ask from Allah..
In the first category i think we both do believe that its quite possible and have no objection... But in category two you claimed that Asking for help from Hazrat Ali is not valid as we should have to ask from Almighty direct...
For the time being i am not in a position to write a detailed reply which i will post here tomorrow insha Allah but right now i am asking a simple question and will try to analyse this question....
You said that asking help from people like us is not the same as the one we ask from Allah Almighty.... My question is that k "If you with some baby go in to a garden and the baby need for any fruit hanging on the tree... Then whether the child will ask from the Tree that "Uncle Tree give me some fruit from so many which are hanging around or will ask from Allah Almighty to let him have the fruit".. The answer is No the baby will ask from you to pick the fruit and give it to him.....
Here you might say that this question belongs to category one as this can be reproducible and is not like the prayer as i prayer we are not definite that whether we can have what we want or not....
**But look if we are asking something from Allah and we are not sure that whether we may get or not what we want then the purpose of "Dua" will dye..... As the basic thing in Prayer is that ultimately we would get what we want whether later or sooner..... So it is definite... Prayer is not a duty which you said that we ask from Allah for raise in salary..... If so then why should i ask from Allah when i am not sure i can get a raise or not, rather i should ask from my boss or some authority, i may have better chances to get a raise in salary....
What i believe is that Prayers are "Asking for Help in those matters which we cannot solve ourself whther they are measureable or not".... We ask help from Hazrat Ali not in the sense that Hazrat Ali grant us like Allah Almighty.... Rather we do believe that Allah has given him some powers from which He grant us... And this help is just like we ask from our superiors, elders or from those people who can do what we cannot......**
In my next post i will put some refferences to support my believe... Until then you can analyse what i have quoted yet.......