Shia father and suni mother

Re: Shia father and suni mother

Sehrysh-Thank you for your time and advice, jazak Allah.

the Prophet ( peace be upon him) says, Religion is founded upon (sincere) advice. * We (attending Companions) said: To whom O Messenger of Allah? He said:* ... to the leaders of the Muslims as well as their common folk.

But there are some manners and conditions which are necessary for fulfilling this task giving advice. Allah Almighty says, (Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! your* Lord is best aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright.*(An-Nahl 16:125)

Re: Shia father and suni mother

For her it's definitely not a matter of shia suni. It's her dad imposing this on her.

Re: Shia father and suni mother

if that is the honest belief, then they don't really need their families to marry. She doesn't need her father there. She should just do what she wants. And so should the boy.

As for father not telling mother, as far as I know back in the day things were done with families settling a marriage, and it wasn't uncommon for husband and wife to be to never speak to one another till nikah. And this was culturally acceptable. In some families it still is. If that was the case, how can it be expected that father should have told mother? Also, on one hand you state that the father isn't a practicing shia, rather not even a practicing muslim, so can we kindly stop talking about father being shia and venturing into the offensive over and over. What aspect of him is shia then? I have long stated that extremism on either side is bad and I stand by that.

Re: Shia father and suni mother

I really feel that you finally come to the point here. To which everyone will have the same answer: sure she is within her rights to marry who she wants. Doesn't mean anyone else has to like it or has to participate. You can talk about rights all you want, and you will be correct but it won't solve the reality here which is the father doesn't care about talk of "rights". He deems it his right to decide who his daughter marries and in his own place, he isn't wrong about that either. Painting him completely black is unfair for this point. I can understand that when in love things seem unfair but that is life. Doesn't have to be fair.

As an adult does she have the right to marry who she wants? yes
As an adult muslim does she have the right? yes

Sure, those are facts. Solid facts. But here's the kicker:

In view of such knowledge will her father agree to this? Most probably not.
Does he have a right to veto someone his child chooses? yes because that is his right as a parent and also a personal opinion. It need not be heard if she feels too strongly.

So it is a decision she needs to make, rather than butting heads with her dad about it. Decision being, should she marry against his wishes and without his participation.

And as always, the other reality:
Should the guy tell his parents that her father is shia and essentially she is daughter of a shia? yes
if the guy doesn't tell his parents will that create possible problems for her later in the event they do get married? very likely so.
will those problems be difficult to face after the trouble she went to to get married? YES

There you go.

Re: Shia father and suni mother

@chikri Since you quote islamic references, here are a few for your friend from SUNNI references:

Firstly: it is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her walee (guardian), regardless of whether she is a virgin or previously-married. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including al-Shaafa’i, Maalik and Ahmad. They take as evidence (daleel) the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

[QUOTE]
“There should be no nikaah (marriage contract) except with a wali (guardian).”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Abu Dawood, 2085; Ibn Maajah, 1881. It is saheeh, as stated in Irwaa’ al-Ghaleel,6/235, by al-Albaani, may Allaah have mercy on him).
[/QUOTE]

And the hadeeth:

[QUOTE]
“Any woman who gets married without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid. If her husband has consummated the marriage, then the mahr belongs to her in return for that. If she does not have a wali then the (Muslim) ruler is the wali of anyone who does not have a wali.”**
(Narrated and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, 1102; Abu Dawood, 2083; Ibn Maajah, 1879).**
[/QUOTE]

Secondly: if her wali prevents her from marrying the person she wants with no shar’i reason for doing so, the guardianship passes to someone who is fit to be a wali, so it may pass from her father to her grandfather, for example.
Thirdly: if all her guardians prevent her for no shar’i reason, then the (Muslim) ruler will be her wali, because of the hadeeth,*** “…If she does not have a wali, then the (Muslim) ruler is the wali of anyone who does not have a wali.” ***The “ruler” here means the judge who rules according to sharee’ah.

Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded walis not to prevent the marriage of the woman whom Allaah has placed under their care if a suitor whose religious commitment and character are good comes to propose marriage. He said:
[QUOTE]
*“If there comes to you one with whose religious commitment and character you are pleased, then marry (your daughter or female relative under your care) to him, for if you do not do that there will be fitnah and widespread mischief in the land.” Narrated and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, 1084. Classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1868). *
[/QUOTE]

Men do not need a walee

So this way or that a Walee is needed and since her father is alive, it is him. however to change walee despite father being alive, one needs to refer the case to shariah court and/or do a court marriage.

Re: Shia father and suni mother

^Just quickly wanted to point out that Hanafi marriages are technically still valid without the permission of the girl's father.. Obviously it's not recommended to go off and get married without a father's consent though..

The references are on here if anyone wants to do a search for more detailed info..

Re: Shia father and suni mother

Jazak Allah but you forgot to copy the other half which was needed more.

when they claim that the daughter has no need to get married! What does this poor man understand about need? Doesn’t he know that people need comfort, love and compassion, and that they have natural needs that Allaah has created in them, by His wisdom, may He be glorified? The woman’s wali has to fear Allaah and understand that preventing his daughter or sister from getting married to a compatible suitor who is pleased with her is regarded as wrongdoing and transgression and implies that*** he is an evildoer (faasiq)*** whose good character is sullied and whose testimony is to be rejected.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

If the wali refused to let a woman marry a man whose religious commitment and character are good, then guardianship passes to the next closest male relative on the father’s side, then the next closest and so on. If they refuse to arrange her marriage, as usually happens, then guardianship passes to the qaadi, and the qaadi should arrange the woman’s marriage. If the matter is referred to him and he knows that her guardians have refused to arrange her marriage, then he should do that, because he is the wali in cases where there is no specific wali.

*
The fuqaha’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) stated that** if the wali repeatedly refuses marriage proposals from suitable men*, *then he is a faasiq (evildoer) *and is** no longer regarded as*** being of good character or as being a wali, rather according to the best known view of the madhhab of Imam Ahmad, he also forfeits the right to lead prayers and it is not valid to offer any congregational prayer behind him. This is a serious matter. *

Allaah revealed these words (interpretation of the meaning):
“do not prevent them from marrying”
**[al-Baqarah 2:232]

** and in my previous posts i did mention that local Imam has already said that her wali has been refusing marrying her for last 6 years for no valid reason and she can marry *without *her wali. As all of the paternal and maternal relatives want her to get marry as she's the only one left in the both families.


Re: Shia father and suni mother

and to make it very clear she wanted her wali to be there at the time of her wedding,she has been saying her mother to make him agree because she never wanted to run away from the home or do a *"court marriage" *without getting his blessing.
The reason for posting it here was to know what an outsider suggest because if you seek advise from other that is neutral and fair. she didn't want to spoil the relationship with her dad and that's why she didn't talk to him directly showing Izat and sharm-o-lehaz.
Got to know what various people think and convey their thoughts even without being in the shoes of the person suffering ,if it's so hard to tell some stranger a point of view,thought or belief i can surely say it's quite harder for her to tell all this to his dad.

with the help of some helping replies she has decided to talk to his father one to one ,keeping sharm-o-lehaz aside. She has already put in mind either to marry the guy she has chosen and is compatible to her in all ways or not to marry with ANY other fellow chosen by her dad or brothers and leave the country as she's already got scholarship for phd abroad.
Thank you so much everyone.