Shia And Sunni Muslims

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^ its just misundestanding and mis-judjement of ibne masood as he did not ask prophet(pbuh) about that but ibne kaab asked so prophet(pbuh) clarified it....and not a single sahabi followed the point of view of ibne masood....its was just misconception on the word "QUL"....so not even a single sahabi or mufassir of that time...said a single word to ibne masood....in 1400 years....all ahle-sunnah are of the vew that sura naas and falak are part of quran and usman sent those qurans in 5 places...all contains these 2 suras...whole ummah ijma is that they are part of quran...so poit of view of ibne masood in contrast with all sahabas and ummah ...do not make sense..its just the misunderstanding ofibne masood...although he was the greatest scholar of fiqah...and fiqah hanafi is mostly based on his "Asool" ...as he leved in kufa a and imam azam also belonged to kufa......so no one ever siad this to him wrong in his life or afterwards....but if some person says that quran is not complete or it is to cave imaam...he is kaafir...he is kafir...he is kafir...according to all unanimous decision of ahle sunnah wajamah ulemas and great scholars......

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

…To All Shia Brothers And Sisters…

my dear brothers and sisters who belong to shiaism…i am waiting for your reply of post no. 123 on this page 5 …and posts no. 74, 75, 76 on page 3…

i give the reference of page 3 down…plz.. answer the post…74…75…76…thanyou …

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=249788&page=3

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

today..no one can write its "own" copy and "mushaf" of quran...as all muslim ummah has "ijmah" over the "Mushaf-e-Usmani " when he sent to all great cities the copies of quran...so officialy now mushafe usmani is the quran....abdullah ibne masood had a greater knowledge of quran than usman according to hadees...so if by mis-understanding and mis-judging...he was reluctant to include the last two surahs in his quran....as i discussed in very detail about the word "QUL" in post 135 ......so it was his personal decison...and no one objected it...as there is a ijma of all sahabas that 2 surasare part of quran...and no sahbi is of the same point of view of taht of ibne masood.......

but now ......as whole muslim ummah has a ijmah...that mushaf-e-usmani is complete.....without any change...and if some person says...quran is incomplete...changed...and """""real one""" one is to cave-imam......then all ahle-sunnah scholars agreed that ........

this person is kafir........this person is kafir..........this person is kafir........

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

If someone said a single word to Ibn Masud or not , thats not my headache. And I am not asking you to give me lame excuses and reasonings for Ibn Masud 'rejecting' whole two surahs from Quran. My question is simple:

"What if today someone stands and says that such and such Surahs are not part of Quran and that he rejects to include it in his copy of Quran, will you regard him as Kaafir or Muslim" ?????

To which you have answered:

[quote]
today..no one can write its "own" copy and "mushaf" of quran...as all muslim ummah has "ijmah" over the "Mushaf-e-Usmani "
[/quote]

The era being talked about is the era after the compilation of Mushaf Usman. Still we see that Sahabi Ibn Masud didnt accept Mushaf Usmani and his own mushaf, Ayesha, Hafsah, Ubai bin kaab, all had their own Mushafs and didnt accept Usmani, so doesnt that mean they either party of them were Kaafir according to you?

[quote]
but if some person says that quran is not complete or it is to cave imaam...he is kaafir...he is kafir...he is kafir...according to all unanimous decision of ahle sunnah wajamah ulemas and great scholars......
[/quote]

I dont know who is in cave but if someone who reejcts Quran is Kaafir according to you, that means your fatwa applies on the following personalities since there are number of traditions from these people in Sunni books which shows that they believed in Tahreef (not believed in the Quran we have today in our hands)
1. Ayesha
2. Hafsah
3. Umar
4. Ibn Umar
5. Uthman bin Affan
6. Aban bin Uthman
7. Ibn Abbas
8. Abu Musa al-Ash'ari
9. Ubai bin Ka`b
10. Abdullah Ibn Masud
11. Abu Muawyah
12. Urwah bin Zubair
13. Hasham bin Umro
14. Harun bin Musa
15. Zubair bin al Harees
16. Akramah
17. Abdullah
18. Yahyah bin Abu Bashir
19. Saeed bin Jubair
20. Ismail Makki
21. Qatadah
22. Hassan Basri
23. Ubaid bin Zuhaak
24. Mujahid

[quote]
but if some person says that quran is not complete or it is to cave imaam...he is kaafir...he is kafir...he is kafir...according to all unanimous decision of ahle sunnah wajamah ulemas and great scholars......
[/quote]

Just for my general knowlege, Does this fatwa also applies on those who says that there is some "mistakes" of words in Quran and the word should actualy have been like this and that??

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims


In fact, you have a near-recent example of Rashad Khalifa... Ahl-e Sunnah consider him Kafir. I would consider him misguided, but that's another story :)

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

nice boy......are you mentally sick person...how many times should i bark to explain that thing to you...you are keep bringing that thing again and again.....

i have explained the matter of ibne masood mis-judgement....

and regarding this all long lsit.....and ibne masood....

did these all people consider that ......

1.present quran does not contains ayats of merits of ali and ahle-bait...

2.present quran does not contain the badd deeds of all great sahabas....

3.the present quran does not contain 70 names of kuffars of makkah(sahabas)...

4..the present quran has 2/3 poryion lost...

5.actual quran has 17000 atyats while present has only about 6000 ayats...

6.present quran doest not contain ayats of wilayat and immamat of ali ....

if not ...then what the hell....you bringing thier names......

and any person who believes in above 6 points...he is kafir kafir kafir kafir kafir

kafir kafir kafir kafir kafir............

and no doubt about its kufar.....

in the opening of thread ..i avoided to give fatwas against shias...but agaibnst quran....i will not stop...as its protector is allah...and all 6 points follower is a clear cut kafir........

and no doubt about its kufr......

understand...

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims


Salam brother dawa-i-dil,
You clearly say so yourself, that Allah is the protector of the Quran.

Many people even during the eaxlted prophet's time rejected the Quran, and even though the Quran calls them the Kaafiroon and Kaaziboon, the prophet is instructed to use a different approach:

73:11 And leave the deniers of the Truth unto Me – these ‘masters of luxury’. And you give them some time.

Please refrain from passing judgement!

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

No, rather you have been providing the ‘reasons’ and excuses regarding Ibn Masud rejecting two surah of Quran. Main wajah nehen pooch raha, I am just pointing out the fact that a Sahabi didnt believe two complete surah to be the part of Quran hence he rejected them to write in his mushaf. So his case is same as to those of the Shia traditions. If a Sahabi can reject two Surahs and still be a Muslim then Nawasib have no right to yapp at Shia traditions (again, noone is interested in the reasons).

yes, I had previously cited 4-5 famed Sunni Tafseers according to which the very Ibn Masud used to read the name of Ali [as], in the verse of Maidah.

All those Shia traditions are not saying that those words were the part of Quran, rather for god sake understand this, when verses used to reveal, some explainatory stuff also used to reveal, the names of sahaba, kufaars etc are the part of those explainatory stuff, not the part of actual ayats. So even if those were not written down by your kingpins, it doesnt make any difference in respect of the completeness of Quran, we just have lost some extra knowledge thats it.

Please insert this belief of Shias in your mind, and I hope I will not have to repeat myself in future.

Yes, according to a companion and the lover of Yazeed [la], i.e. Abdullah Ibn Umar, most of the Quran has been lost.

“Ibn Umar said: Verily among you people one would say that he has found Quran while he does not how much the total quantity of Quran was because most of the Quran has been lost rather one should say that verily he has found the Quran which has been made available."

  1. Tafseer Dur e Manthur by Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti, Volume 1 page 106
  2. Tafseer Al Itqan (Urdu), by Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti, Volume 2 page 64
  3. Tafseer Ruh al Mani, Volume 1 page 25

5

Everyone counts ayats in his own matter, if the difference of opinions regarding the number of verses makeso ne kaafir then there are same kind of references in Sunni text as well. Just start giving fatwa agasint the following sunni scholars. For example:

Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti has recorded a tradition from Ibn Abbas[ra] wherein he says:
“The number of verses in Quran is 6616”
Tafseer Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84

Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti while mentioning the views of Abu Umar Daani about Quran writes:
“Daani states that there is consensus and ijma over 6000 verses in Quran”
Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84

So according to Sunni sources, Imam Ahle Sunnah Abu Umar Daani was rejecter of 666 verses of Quran.

Thus, as I said, different people have different manner of counting verses. Thats what your own sorcues say**:**
“The total number of verses in Quran is 6000 and there is disagreement about the rest of the verses and there are various views and statements about them. One statement is that there are 6204 verses”

  1. Tafseer Ibn Kathir, Volume 1 page 7, number of verses
  2. Tafseer Qurtubi, Volume 1 page 65, number of verses

Caliph Umar’s belief that Quran had ninety Parahs; 700369 letters are missing

We read in Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran:

"Hadhrath Umar said that the Qur’an have 1,027,000 letters and whoever will read them with the intention of earning reward [Thawab], he will he will earn one woman from Hoors of paradise against each letter. All the narrators of this tradition are Thiqah”.

  1. Kanz al Umaal, Volume 1 page 135 Hadith 2308 (Online Link)
  2. Al Itqan, fi Uloom al Quran Volume 1 page 88 by Jalaluddin Suyuti
  3. Jama` al-Sagheer, Volume 2 page 88, Chapter: alif laam

According to Ibn Abbas, the present Quran contain 326631 letters, which means according to Umar, 700369 letters are missing from the present Quran which ultimately means that the number of letters in the present Quran have to be thrice its present amount in order to comply with the statement of Umar, but in that case the number of Parahs would hop up to ninety.

etc etc… Also according to Ubai, Ayesha and Umar, Surah Taubah was more than or equal to Surah baqra, that means they believed that 127 verses has been lost from Surah Taubah.

Again, those words were not the actual verses rather ‘explainatory’ stuff. And as i said above, according to authentic Sunni souces, your sweet sweet Sahabi Ibn Masud also believed in the verse of wilayat/Maulayat.

Because they all believed in different wordings of Quran. You have been sayingthat one who believes decrees, addition or mistake in Quran is Kaafir, then the people whom I have listed are ones who believed in different words of Quran, somesaid, it should have been this not that, some said that fulan fulan word in Quran is incorrect etc. So you got it as to why I am bringing their names?

I already have cited examples of some of those in the list, if you want to see more samples, then jsut tell me whose shall i shoe you :slight_smile:

Thanx, as i said, all those people i have listed believed in tahreef of one form or other. They were all busy in bringing their own text and claim to be the part of Quran.

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

sir...its not me...the unanimous decisons of all great ahle sunnah ulemas from 1400 years..that to negate quran is a open kufr.....

can any my friend bring forth fatwa regarding this..khanbabax..or any other....thankyou...

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

exactly..there is a verse of quran...i forget sura or ayat....its like....on quran..the batil cannot atack from front or from back.....but these people keep on bringing the filth against quran....

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

and these ahdess which these tafaser refer were made in the some house of town of kufa.....

ibne masood opinion was 2 suras are not part of written quran..he never said that walayat and immamt ayats are lost from quran.....and quran is incomplete and such nonesense....

yea...and you used to copy down that "explanatory stuff"...in your "Munawar Note book" which you used to buy from "urdu Bazar"...or might be you used to copy down that "explanatory stuff"....in "mushtaq copy house " register..which is available of Rs.35 in market...!!!!!!!!!!!!

for 23 years...sahabas...missed your "explanatory stuff "...and prophet(pbuh) not knew this fact....allah did not told him about.....ali ...abbas ....aqeel....jaffar ...idi not tell prophet(pbuh) about this theft....allah wanted that this material should lost.....and allah is wrong when saying i am its protector.....as allah could not save the "explanatory stuff"......23 years...it happened ...and not a single voice raised against this act........

what a ridiculous man you are.......i want to weep on your mentality.....!!!!

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims


A fatwa declaring someone to be kafir is the word/judgement of a human being... I am asking you to read 73:11 again!

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

my foolish friend...everyone has a its own way to count ayats...some consider the "waqfa" as end of ayat ..while other not....similarly...other thngs..one stop at certain place..while other continue to take it as full ayat.....so everyone is different....whats so allergic about that...as all are near 6000....not 17000...my sweet brother.....

again the same nonesense...really you break my hopes...i consider you a very good IQ......alaf lam meem......some consider it one letter ..some as 3....similarly...bashr for example....some take it one letter while some take it as ...b...a....s...h...i...r...as 6 letters....yaar what funny man you are.....

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

Dont show yourself like an idiot.
“… Produce your proof if you are truthful.” (2:111) Otherwise no need to bring lame excuses.

Those are famed Sunni Tafaseer available online at various Suuni/Salafi libraries. If you have problem with that then its your personal ignorance, no Sunni and Shia have to do anything with your insane conslusion. Just do search on the internet by their names and you will come to know their importance in Sunni school.

And one of those tafsirs is Tafsir Mazhari which was not prepeared in Kufa rather in Jamia Binoria Deoband :stuck_out_tongue: LOL as this is one of the books they teach and sell:
http://www.binoria.org/book/bookslist.asp?start=41
Also this biggest Deobandi school relies on the very Tafseer for giving their Fatwas
http://www.binoria.org/qasbj/fatwadbview.asp?key=151

The fact remains there, Ibn Masud used to recite the name of Ali [as] in the verse.

Suhanallah, to reject two surahs of quran is perfect but to believe that some “explainatory text” was deleted by some of the Nasibi sahaba is an actof Kufr. Can you not turn off the switch of the Munafiqat legacy that you inherit just for few minutes?

And if still the point of Ayat Imamah or Wilayah is hitting your head then what about the ayat of Qunoot that your Salaf used to write in their Mushafs??? The favorite Imam of Nawasib as well of Salafies/Wahabies Ibn Taimiyah testified that Salaf used to deny & change verses of Quran and used to recite ayats of Qunoot.

*“And likewise some of the salaf denied words form the Quran such as the denail of some of them of the verse, ‘Have not yet those who believe known’ *13:31, and them saying that its ‘Has it not been made clear to those who believe’ and the denail of reading of the verse by others (of the salaf) ‘And your Lord has ordained (quthiyah) that you worship none but He’, and they said that its ‘And you Lord has advised (wassa)’ and some of them used to delete Al Mu’waithatayn from their copy of the Quran (mushaf) and other used to write a surah called Suratul Qunut and this is a known mistake that is known by consensus (Ijma), and the multiple successive transmission (matawatur). **
Majum’ Fatawa Volume 12 page 492

I dont have time to waste answering such pathetic sentences that you might have learn from the homo-- loving nasibi/wahabi madrasa.

What type of answer is this? Anyways, my point was that if difference of the number of letters/verses is causing indigestion into your stomach, then your fatwa of kufr also applies to the aforesaid Sunni personalities. Your Munafiqat legacy will not work here that you rule your opponents according to a law and rule your own people with different law.

O the follower of those who remained Jaahil to the half of their lives, when I was saying the same thing it caused indigestion to you, now you are adhering to the argument that I have been using. How pathetic. Anyways, I can see how impudently you just left the sunni traditions that says that half of the quran has been lost. And that was just few examples, according to Sunni Imams, Quran consisted of 40 Para (Sipara in urdu).

  1. Fatah al Bari, Volume 9 page 95 by Ibn Hajar Asqalani
  2. Umdatul Qari, Volume 9 page 345 by Badruddin Aini
  3. Irshad al Saari, Volume 7 page 482 by Shahabuddin Qastalani

Also according to Umar, 700369 letters are missing from the present Quran, which will in reutrn also take you nearly 17000 verses, (if you have fallen so deep in love with the 17000 figure).

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

Question:
I have also heard by a shia collegue that their is a surat in their book which is not in the QURAN. can u confirm this? the surat in qs is called SURAT AL-WILAYAT.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
With regard to Soorat al-Wilaayah, some of the Shi’ah scholars and imams have stated that it exists. **Any of them who denies that does so by way of taqiyah (dissimulation). **

** **One of those who clearly stated that it exists is Mirza Hussein Muhammad Taqiy al-Noori al-Tubrusi (d. 1320 AH). He wrote a book in which he claimed that the Qur’aan had been distorted and that the Sahaabah has concealed some parts of it, including Soorat al-Wilaayah.

** The Raafidis honoured him after his death by burying him in al-Najaf**. This book by al-Tubrusi was published in Iran in 1298 AH, and when it was published there was a great deal of controversy because they wanted the doubts about the validity of the Qur’aan, which were known only to their leaders, to remain scattered throughout hundreds of their major books, and they did not want that to be compiled in one book. At the beginning of his book he said:

“This is a good and noble book entitled Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab (Decisive comment on the distortion of the Book of the Lord of Lords)… He mentioned aayahs and soorahs which he claims that the Sahaabah concealed, including ‘Soorat al-Wilaayah,’” the text of which, according to them, and as quoted in this book, is:

**“O you who believe, believe in the Prophet and the Wali * whom We have sent to guide you to the straight path, a Prophet and a Wali who are part of one another, and I am the All-Knowing, All-Aware…” **

And they have another soorah which they call Soorat al-Noorayn:

**“O you who believe, believe in the two lights (al-noorayn) which We have sent down to you to recite to you My Verses and to warn you of the punishment of a great Day. They are part of one another and I am the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Those who fulfil the covenant with Allaah and His Messenger mentioned in the verses (of the Qur’aan), the Gardens of delight will be theirs, but those who disbelieve after they believed by breaking their covenant and disobeying the command of the Prophet, they will be thrown into Hell. They have wronged themselves and gone against the wasiyyah of the Prophet (i.e., the appointment of ‘Ali as khaleefah), and they will be given to drink of boiling water…” and other such nonsense. **

           **You can see the entire soorah, along with a telegraphic picture of the Persian mus-haf at the following site: **

shia/nurain.htm" STYLE=“color: blue; text-decoration: underline; text-underline: single”>[size=4] http://arabic.islamicweb.com/shia/nurain.htm[/size]

Prof. Muhammad ‘Ali Sa’oodi – who was one of the greatest experts of the Ministry of Justice in Egypt – examined an Iranian mus-haf kept by the Orientalist Bryan and he obtained a copy of this soorah; above the lines of Arabic script there is written the translation in the Iranian language.

As it was mentioned by al-Tubrusi in his book, Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab,

it is also mentioned in their book Dabastan Madhaahib, which is in Farsi, written by Muhsin Faani al-Kashmiri. This book has been printed numerous times in Iran, and this false soorah was quoted from it by the Orientalist Noeldeke in his book The History of Qur’anic Manuscripts, 2/120, and was published by the French Asian newspaper in 1842 (p. 431-439).

It was also mentioned by** Mirza Habibullaah al-Haashimi al-Kho’i in his book Manhaaj al-Baraa’ah fi Sharh Nahj al-Balaaghah (2/217);** and by

Muhammad Baaqir al-Majlisi in his book **Tadhkirat al-A’immah (p. 19, 20) in Farsi, (published by) Manshoorat Mawlana, Iran. **

**See also al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah li’l-Asas allati qaama ‘alayha deen al-Shi’ah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb. **

This claim of theirs is a denial of the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”
[al-Hijr 15:9]

Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that anyone who claims that anything in the Qur’aan has been altered or changed is a kaafir.


**Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: **

The same applies to those among them who claim that some verses of the Qur’aan have been taken away or concealed, or who claim to have some esoteric interpretations that exempt him from having to do the actions prescribed in sharee’ah etc., who are called al-Qaraamitah and al-Baatiniyyah, and who include al-Tanaasukhiyyah [names of esoteric sects].

**There is no dispute that they are kaafirs. **
**Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 3/1108-1110. **

**Ibn Hazm said: **
The view that the Qur’aan has been altered is blatant kufr and is a rejection of what the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said.
Al-Fasl fi’l-Ahwa’ wa’-Milal wa’l-Nihal
** 4/139. **
And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=21500&ln=eng&txt=shia*

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

Stop changing the topic and answer to the humiliation that you have confronted in my last post. And please dont copy paste with all these codes in between, no one has leisure time like you to find the correct words in between incorrect codes.

And btw, you have answered yourself:

Since the book is contraversial, hence no need to be excited.

I think you are wasting your time in attacking others while you are unable to answer about your own belief of Surah Qunoot being lost.

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

look below...the names of imams and scholars.....1000 dawa-i-dils are not equal to the mud sticking to thier feet.....see what they are saying......

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

The quran which is between two gilds..is reached us without any alternation
Shafi faqeeh
Al-Tauzee Fil Asool
vol 1
pg 26
egypt

there is no doubt that the quran we read reached us from prophet(pbuh) without any alternations..
faqeeh hanafi
Al _Manar Fil Asool
pg 9
india

quran reached us without alternationsand its the same as between 2 jilds
Al_Ihkaam Aadmi
vol 1
pg 228
Egypt

1.Quran Majeed is written by Tarteebai Nazooli

2.there is no addition or deletion in quran and same as in usman period and same as in prophet(pbuh)

3.sahabas collected the whole quran without any mistake

Imaam Jala ud Din Sayooti
Al-Itqaan **
**vol 1

pg 63
Cairo
1368 hijri

from all true riwayats....sahabs collected the whole quran between 2 jilds without any mistake as prophet(pbuh) told them..they wrote accordingly without any mistake and the tarteebs of surah also given by prophet(pbuh)
Tafseer Khazin
Muqaddama
vvol 1
pg 7
Cairo
1955

any person who disrespect quran...or negate any 1 ayat of quran...or negate ant hukum of quran...or accept anything which is being negated in quran...or have a doubt about ayats of quran......then all scholars agree that without any doubt that he is kaafir
Qazi Ayyaz

Prophet(pbuh) left for ummah only that quran which is between 2 jilds
Imam Bukhari

Ibne Abbas(ra) said that prophet(pbuh) never left a single ayat that is not between 2 jild
Bukhari
Kitab Fazail ul Quran

Quran is free from all alternations...and Rafdhi beliefs that quran is distorted is totally false......and all muslim ummah has a "iijmah" over it....
Imam Zarkashi
Al Burjhan Fil Aloom Quran
vol 2
pg 127
1957

Allah has taken the promise of quran for alternations...so this will remain safe till qiyyamah...
Imam Nafsi
Tafseer Almadraak
vol 3
pg 189

Allah who has revealed the quran ..he has also promissed to keep it safe....
Tafseer Ibne Kaseer
vol 2
pg 547
Cairo

This is the promise of allah that if a old person say a single dot wrong...the children of small age will say that o old man...you have done it in a wrong way.....
Imam Razi
Tafsser Mafateeh Ghaib
vol 5
pg 380

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

Shia all great scholars wrote books that talk about the changing..deletion and incompleteness of quran.....

     **SHIAS GREAT BOOKS  ABOUT CHANGING ....        INCOMPLETENESS....DELETED QURAN**

1.Kitab Tahreef
Ahmed Bin Muhammad Bin Khalid Albarqi

2.and Tusi **mentioned it in its book **Alfahrist

3.his father Muhammad bin khalid barqi wrote a book Kiab Tanzeel wal Taghayyar

4.and greatest shia asma rajjal scholar Najashi mentioned in its book.

5.Kitab AlTanzeel Min Quran Wal Tahreef
*Ali Bin Fazzal *

*wrote a book...and shias claim that he never mistake in ahadees *

6.Kitab AlTahreef wal Tabdeel
Muhammad bin Hassan sarifi

7.Kitaab ul Qirrat
Ajhmed Bin Muhammad Bin Sayyar
he is the teacher of great shia scholar and mufaasir Ibnel Mahyar

and mentioned in Al_fahrist and Rijal Najashi

8.AlTanzeel wal Tahreef
Hassan bin Sulaiman Al Hilli

9.Qirrat Momieen wal Qiraat Ahle Bait
Babun AlHajjam

10.Qiratt Momineen
Abu Tahir Abdul Wahid Qumi

11.Ibne shair Ashooab mentioned it in its book Maualim Ulema

12.Saad Saod
Ibne Taous

13.Kitab Tafseer Quran wal Tawiil Tanzeel

14.Qirrat Rasool wal Ahle Bait

15.Kitab AAl Siyyari

these were all great old age scholars of shias

now lets look at the present age shia scholars who wrote books on "alternation" of quran

16.fasalul Khitaab .Fe Isbaat Tehreef kitaab
Mirza Muhammad Noori Tabrasi....(already mentiod above post)

17.Radee Shubhaat aan Fsil ALl khitaab

18.Tasheef Katbain wa Naqse Ayaat Kitab Mubeen
Mirza Sultan Ahmed Dehlvi

19.Zarbat-e-Haidria
Syed Muhammad Mujtahid Luknawi

these were complete books ...now lets see whats scholars give "chapters on alternations of Quran".........

1.Tafseer of Ali Bin Ibraheem Qumi

2.Asool Kafi by Kalini (bukhari of shia)

3.Sharah al -Wafia by Muhammad Kazmi

4.Basaair Darjaat by Shiekh Safa

5.Nashkul quran wa Manshookha by Saad bin Abdullah

in all these chapters is written that no one has complete quran excepts the imams...ayats have been changed and lost...

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

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so all of these are great scholars and pillars of shiism...who wrote all these books...and chapters....

1. now ...either these scholars...which are considered as the imams of shiaism like Kalini...Tusi...Najashi etc ...and others are true....so Quran is incomplete...lost...and .....intentionally deleted......

2. or accept that all these scholars and immas are wrong....so means ...what they have written thier books about...immamat....wilaayat......wisaayat....khilafat...vulgur attributions to sahabas.....wrong concept of ali being superior to shaikeen.....only 3 sahabas remained with true islam...rest all murtid....khilaafat is a haq of banu hashims....immmat continued....and all such concepts......are totally wrong....because all these immams also mentioned these in thier books.......

so what they false about quran...they can also say that about sahabas...etc......immamat ...and other wrong concept.......

if not....then accept that ....quran is incomplete ...lost...deleted.....as written by all these great scholars...as i gave about 29 books from immamamms and greatest scholars of shaiism....

so the ruling is already quoted that who consider quran incomplete...changed...lost...deleted*...what great scholars...say about that.......*

so to all shia brothers and sisters...plz....answer this post.....which option yoou would like to choose.......

plz...plz...no taqiyya.......