Shia And Sunni Muslims

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

just as the saint chacha_ghalib predicted, this thread has turned into the age old debate between shias and sunnis :halo:

i bid you guys good bye and good luck

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**
[QUOTE]

khanababax...thankyoui for the fatwa...i am not even the foot-level of such great scholars..

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]

According to the Ahlus Sunnah , the khilaafah is part of the furu’aat ( secondary things) and not the usul ( fundamentals) . It is actually a practical organization ( of affairs) . The concept of government is a constitutional affair . However , believing in the khilaafah of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar ( ( radiallahu anhu ma ) is not on the basis of it being a consitutional affair. Believing in them to be muslim personalities is fard on the Muslims . Their being Sahabahs , their imaan, their Islam , and their piety and purity has been established from Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam through tawaatur . Futhermore , the entire Ummah has consensus ( ijmaa’) with regards to their Khilaafah . This consensus reaches the stage of *qat ‘ tyyah *. Therefore , rejecting it is kufr . Based on this , rejecting the khilaafah from the khilaafah point of view is not kufr . But rejecting it because of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar ( ( radiallahu anhu ma ) is kufr .

[/QUOTE]

...**

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thankyou for clarification....

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brother..i tried ..very hard..not to start ..but some people want to have some "friendly challenges" ...so they started to do this challenge....aand then i and oter also climbed in it...sorry for that...

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i think this book of shia....if not..then still by many ahadees..its is totally forbidden...

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bus wohi ghisai pittay "chappai" ..shiachat...etc sai..mukhtalif rango mai...kai lagai shaid koi nai baat hai..laikin wohi 1400 saal ho gai ...suntai suntai...kaan pak gai hai....

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Faisal bhai..plz..move this thread to GS jokes..... :D

since i have provided you with your own books references ...and alot of references...that quran is incomplete...you started copy-pasting from answering ansars.com and other full of lies site.....what is this nonesense....
dura mansoor....jalalu din syooti....and other sunni scholars...all they not angels or masooms..can they not do a mistake...whats a ridulous this thing is ....

you are quoting ahadees from any sunni book...if this was the case..then why bukhari took 2513 out of 700000 ....so its means there are many fabriccated in abbasid sby shias....in thier beliefs...and now your whole debate spins around that ahadees....

honey show me from bukhari and muslim..or atleast from 6 and proved saheeh by Al-Bani or any other great scholar...do not spread your fairy tales quotes ..in the name of ahadees....

Bloody CIA agent Hamid Mir & Khalid Khawaja exposed (WITH TAPED AUDIO CALL)
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again ...GS jokes..... plz..... :D

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I haven't talked to ALL the shias in the world, of course, but 100% of all the shias I know and have talked to definitely believe that the Quran is complete and unaltered. Allah Ta'llah in the Quran says that He is the Protector of Quran. So I'd leave it at that. There are always a few groups here and there that are on the fringes with different view points, no doubt, and there will always be negative websites that keep spreading hatred.

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let forget nice-boy who openly says that quran we present have incomplete...and ther is a unanimous decision of all great ahle-sunna scholars that the man who says this commits kufr...unanimous decision...

all other my shia brothers and sisters...i am asking you...quran is complete or incomplete.....plz..tell me..no taqiyya....plz...

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thankyou faisal bhai for your reply...i agree with you...most of shias believe in quran as 100 % right as you mentioned..Allah is its revealer and saviour as in quran...and allah tala cannot say wrong...this is speciality of this last and final book ...rest all are altered ..but this will inshallah never ever be altered ..inshallah...i belive this thing as i belive that i have to die one day....this quran we have is 100% what was revealed on muhammad(pbuh)....not even a dot is missing....

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jokes? So Sunni scholars and Sahaba are piece of jokes to you. Good to know :slight_smile: But I think you are just pretending to be happy, while the reality has really hurt you, you were confident that traditions about tahreef only present in Shia sources as your nasibi mullah and websites might have hidden it from you :slight_smile: So let me hurt you more and for the benefit of readers, let me hit a final nail in your coffin by providing a scan page from Tafseer Mazhari, Volume 3 page 353 published by Daar ul Isha`t Karachi.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/fiqh/kalima_adhan/tafseer_mazhari_v3_p353.jpg

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Since Allah has made you blind in terms of aqal, hence you tells lie one after another. I have made it clear that current Quran is not incomplete, but now I can realize how stupid and staunch were the christians for whom Allah asked Ahlulbayt [as] to do Mubahila. Hence I shall its a time to do same to you: "If I havent written in my posts that Quran is complete then may Allah's curse be on you but otherwise on me".

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shi'ah and Sunni eh?
Ok time to, umm ahem, muddy the water a bit I guess since this thread does seem to lean on jokes... Let's look at then-contemporary non-muslim accounts:

Jacob of Adessa late 600s
Priests may give the blessing of the saints to mahaggaraye or pagans(???) (Mhggry aw hnp), and may teach the children of Muslims, Harranians and Jews.

Patriarch Germanus - Patriarch of Constantinople from 715 to 730:
"With respect to the Saracens, since they also seem to be among those who urge these charges against us, it will be quite enough for their shame and confusion to allege against them their invocation which even to this day they make in the wilderness (desert???) to a lifeless stone (Ka'bah in Mecca???), namely that which is called Chobar (???), and the rest of their vain conversation received by tradition from their fathers as, for instance, the ludicrous mysteries of their solemn festivals(festivals???)."

Yahya bin Mansur aka John of Damascus - 730AD

"This, then, which they call 'stone,' (H-J-R حجر) is the head of Aphrodite (Allat???), whom they used to worship (correlate with 53:19) and whom they call Chabar (???).” (Do notice that this guy is an Arab himself so chances of mistake in transliteration are slim - chobar translates to the Arabic root K-B-R كبر - meaning "great".)

It is interesting that this group called Saracen (Sharaqiyeen) is also called Mahaggaraye (Mahaajirin) and there is another group Hanpe (Hunafa - who were actually considered pagans by the Christians). There is no concept of Shia or Sunni.. they all seem to be following a "tradition from their fathers".

Also interesting to note that Muslims are being called Saraqyeen or !Mahaajireen! well into the 700s...

There are some observations regarding the word mahaggaraye which I refrain from mentioning and leave it to the readers.

Finally, notice that Saracens used to venerate the stone H-J-R حجر which seems to be dedicated to Ephrodite/Allat...

Home Alone
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[QUOTE]
**"Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women".
**Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 5, page 420

[/QUOTE]

What ????? OMG!!! Tabhi main bolon yeh banda aik kay baad aik jahalat kion dikha raha hai. You are ignorant of one of the esteemed scholar of your school namely Imam Ibn Kaseer and his works and yet you point out fingers on Shias? If you are ignorant and orphan in terms of knowledge then what right do you have to comment on Shias. Thats why I always advice people like you to first do your homework in order to remain ssafe from humilation but some people just lvoe to be humilated.!

The book is one of the famed books of Ibn Kaseer and it is popularly known as "Tarikh Ibn Kaseer" and just like you, he also had Nasibi tendencies and he was too out and out anti-Shia who through out his books have advanced his opinions about the traditions he quotes whether they are Zaeef or not, and he hasnt advanced any objection after quoting the matamdari of ami jaan! :)

It als also narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):
Abbas narrates:
"I heard Ayesha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".

enjoy :D

Home Alone
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Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

So have I, I have also provided references from your own sources, and also can give you direct links from online Sunni Libraries or scan pages (of those which I have) unlike you who just write references in his own words thats it.

Since speeking without home work is your habbit I challenge you to show me the page of answering-ansar, from where you claim that I have pasted it?

Wah wah wah ! When you cite Shia scholars, then such ‘excuses’ doesnt come into your minds, but when I reveal the pathetic beliefs of your school, all the beliefs of ‘mistakes’ comes into your mind. Munafiqat at its worst! By the way, I can show you references of tahreef from Saha Satta also, the books that are considered most authentic after Quran in Sunni school, and you will not be albe to bring the ‘mistake’ excuse there.

Ok, it seems that ytou are so proud of Bukhari, now lets talk about some of those tahreef from the 2513 traditions, which you are proud of.

**Sahabi Ibn Masud rejected two Surahs from Quran, he believed that Tahreef had been done by adding them into Quran **

We are quoting from the following esteemed work of Ahle Sunnah.

  1. Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 6 Hadith 501
  2. Fatah al Bari, Volume 8 page 743, kitab al tafseer
  3. Tafseer Dur al Manthur, Volume 6 page 416
  4. Tafseer Ibn Kathir, Volume 4 page 571
  5. Tafseer Qurtubi, Volume 2 page 251
  6. Tafseer Ruh al Mani, Volume1 page 279
  7. Sharah Mawafiq, page 679

Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 6 Hadith 501
**Narrated Zirr bin Hubaish: **
I asked Ubai bin Ka’b, “O Abu AlMundhir! Your brother, Ibn Mas’ud said so-and-so (i.e., the two Mu’awwidh-at do not belong to the Quran).” Ubai said, “I asked Allah’s Apostle about them, and he said, 'They have been revealed to me, and I have recited them (as a part of the Quran),” So Ubai added, “So we say as Allah’s Apostle has said.”

Hadith can be read at the official online English translation of Sahih Bukhari at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/060.sbt.html

Also, your favorite Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani in the commentary of the above tradition records:

المسند والطبراني وابن مردويه من طريق الأعمش عن أبي إسحاق عن عبد الرحمن بن يزيد النخعي قال ‏"‏ كان عبد الله بن مسعود يحك المعوذتين من مصاحفه ويقول إنهما ليستا من كتاب الله‏.
Al Masnad, Al Tabarani and Ibn Mardaweyh from the way of Al A’mash from Abi Ishaq from Abd al Rahman bin Yazid Al Nakh’I, he said: "Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud used to erase Al Mu’awwidh-at from his Mushafs and say that they (Mu’awwidh-at**) are NOT from Quran .”**
Online Fath al Bari, Kitab Tafseer al Quran

The disclaimer of a famed companion Ibn Masud about Mu’awwidh-at (Surah Naas & Surah Falaq) is that thorn which will keep hurting the throat of Sunnis till Qayamah and some Sunni ulema often try to pull it out by advancing one excuse or another, but it has stuck so badly in their throat that the more they try to pull it out, the further they push it in.

So Mr, are going to call Ibn Masud Kaafir or not? Or you are going to bring osme excuse this time and persist on quoting Shia text only? Munafiqat at its worst!

Fairy tales, so Sunni Imams were habitual of narrating fairy tales, thanx, you are making good impression of your mazhab. See, if You are so stupid that you can not see that I have provided you the “direct link of a Salafi website having the book Tafseer al-Itqan” then no need to show the estreme of your ignorance and stay quite. Dont try to take the excuse that only Saha Satta are the books of Ahle Sunnah, no, there are number of other books which Ahle Sunnah follow and I have all rights to quote anything from them.

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[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by chacha ghalib
just as the saint chacha_ghalib predicted, this thread has turned into the age old debate between shias and sunnis
i bid you guys good bye and good luck

[/QUOTE]

Very bad and very naughty, you should have told hiom that it was who who initiated all these 'challenges' or shall I call the series of questions from Shias (pointing out to your moharram thread). Also you should have told chacha ghalib that despite time and again reminder of my open challenge, you have proved your self as an impotent by not even trying to attempt to answer those serious questions that questions the exitence of your school.

I think being in english, you were not getting the point I have been trying to make time and again so let me put the challenge in Urdu.

Apnay challenge ko yahan aik murtaba phir dohra loon shaid is martaba aap main kuch ghairat ajai aur apnay mazhab ki roots ka difa karlain.

"mujhay bara e maharbani bata dian kay apkay buzurg hazraat Nasibi aur Khariji kion thay? Kion apkay Imamoon nay Nasibi aur Khariji jaisay logon say hadees riwayat keen aur phir un ko Thiqa bhi kaha, itnay achay taluqaat honay ki wajah kia hai".

cheer
*:) *

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[quote="khaneh, post:66, topic:159110"]

Dear sister ,

Its fine that your husband is a shia as long as you are happy with him and he dont force u to believe what he believes. He is a muslim according to me. But just keep in mind the saying of the prophet.

There will be 73 sects of islam after me and only one will go to heavens.

This tell us that not only you but every muslim should research about the islam and see what is wrong and what is not. By the way i am against Wahabis more than i oppose shias because of their concepts about YAZID (LANATULLAH) , killer of the nephew of PROPHET MOHAMMAD (PBUH) and the lord of the JANNAH SAyedna IMAM HUSSAIN (RA). The saviour of islam .../quote

I am very happy that Allah has kept this in his hands that which sects or people will go to heaven or not!
In this time and age I pity people who do and can force other people t believe in something!
As long as We all believe in Allah and His book and Rasool-Allah, I will call that person a Muslim and would not judge anybody....!

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Quran is complete and as faisal said that Allah has taken the responsibility of protecting Quran and no one can make any changes to it till the day of judgement.

I didn't read all your posts as they are quite annoying/bayzaar (sorry for the bluntness) and I don't see all that in my family or the shias I know.

Rest, there are extremist in every religion and every sect, at the end it is your choice, you can pick the fraction of the extremist and argue till death or pick the opposite and try to learn something that will help you here and after.