HAZRAT ALI ON HAZRAT ABU BAKR AND HAZRAT UMAR(RADI ALLAHU ANHUM AJMA’IN)
The Muslim Revivalist (Mujaddid) of the 14th Century, A’LA HAZRAT IMAAM AHMED RAZA AL-QADERI (RADI ALLAHU ANHU) in his book, “GHAYATUT TAHQEEQ FI IMAAMATUL 'ALI AS SIDDEEQ,” quotes from “SAWA IQUL MUHARRIQAH” that: "Imaam Abul Qaasim Ismaeel Muhammad Bin Al Fazl Balkhi in his Kitaab, ‘AS SUNNAH’ stated that Imaam ibn Hajjar Makki reported that Alqamah* (radi Allahu anhu) narrated that Hazrat Ali (radi Allahu anhu)* was once informed that some people declared that he (Hazrat Ali) is higher in status than Hazraat Shaykhain (Abu Bakr and Umar) -* radi Allahu anhuma.*
"Upon hearing this, he (Hazrat Ali) stood on the mimbar and declared after praises to Allah and His Messenger (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), 'O People! News had reached me that some people are saying that I have a higher status than Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu) and Umar (radi Allahu anhu). Had I clarified the ruling earlier on this matter, then the subscribers to such a view would have certainly been punished by me.
" ‘As from today, whosoever is heard to make such utterances is a slanderer (MUFTARI), and he shall be liable for the punishment of a slanderer, which is 80 lashes.’
“Thereafter, he (Hazrat Ali) said,* ‘Without any doubt, after Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), the most excellent in the Ummah is Hazrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu), followed by Umar, and after him Allah knows best whose status appears next.’”*
"Alqamah states that Sayyiduna Hassan Mujtaba (radi Allahu anhu) was present in that gathering and remarked, 'By Allah! If he (Hazrat Ali) was to make mention of the third name (after Umar Farooq), he would have mentioned the name of Uthman (radi Allahu anhu) http://www.yanabi.com/activeweb.cfm?a_id=852
First of all Shias do not regard a person as a lover of Ahllubayt [as] who believes in a book containing the teachings of open Nasibi and Khawarij and use ‘ra’ for those who became deviated by cursing,hurting,abusing,fighting Ahlulbayt [as].
Secondly, you what what your problem is? You just read the beliefs of Shias and then start saying “taubah taubah Allah Allah” without reazling that there are tons of similar things present in your school as well and most importantly there it isnt a correct way to consider sonmeone as misguided without coming to know the **reasons **and **proofs **of their particular stance!!
Have you bothered to read the Quran (2:124) which itself a proof that Imamate is a level ahead of prophethood/messengership?
Deobandism is one of the biggest sect of Hanafi school through out sub continent. Have you ever bothered to know the Deobandi stance on the issue? According to one of the pioneer scholars of Deoband, Muhammad Qaasim Nanotovi states:
**“If Prophets are distinguished from their followers then such distinction is confined only with regard to knowledge. But so far as deeds are concerned, most often their followers are equal to them, and some times even excel them”. **
Tahzeer-un-Naas, Page 5 by Muhammad Qaasim Nanotovi
It was not only Maulana Qaasim Nanotovi but one of his esteemed followers Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi adhering to same belief stated:
In the art of politics, it is quite possible that a non-Prophet may excel a Prophet’s knowledge."
Al-Ifanzaat-ul-Yaumiyah, by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi, vol. 6 page 349
Besdie this there is a whole conversation of a Deobandi saint/abdaal to the prophet Khizr [ra] which starts with the wordS: “Once one of the Abdaal met Hazrat Khidr A.S and inquired from him whether he had ever met anyone among the saints whom he considered higher in rank than himself. To this he replied, ‘Yes, I have.
Fazaail-e-Aamaal, Virtues of Hajj, (English Translation), Chapter 9, Story no. 9, p.171, (New Edition 1982, Published by Dini Book Depot - Delhi).
As for your indigestion for the belief of Imams being excel than angels, Suffice it to say that Rasulullah (s) had stated:
“In the eyes of Allah, the momin is superior to certain angels”.
In his explanation of this Hadith classical Hanafi scholar, Mullah 'Ali Qari declares:
“Thayabi has commented that this Hadith means that ordinary people can be superior to ordinary Angels and superior people are superior to ordinary and superior angels in the same way that superior angels are superior to ordinary men”. Mirqat Sharah Mishkat page 510 Hadith number 5
Have you ever bothered to see what is found in your own school? If these are deivated beliefs according to, why I dont see a thread/posts from you condemning the Deobandies, Hanafies? Why the heck have you made Shias as your sole target? Double Standards!!!
KHOMEINI ON QURAN IN HIS "KASHFUL ASRAR"
[size=2]"TAHREEF (deliberate alteration of words to change the meaning of the holy books, namely, the Bible, etc.) is that fault which Muslims accuse Jews and Christians of indulging in, has proved to be found in the Ashaabs (of Rasoolullah - sallal laahu alaihi wasallam)." *(KASHFUL ASRAR, PAGE 114)*
"It was easy for the Ashaabs (of Rasoolullah - sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) to remove verses from the Holy Quran and deliberately add verses to it, and in this way forever concealing from the people of the world the true Quran." *(KASHFUL ASRAR, PAGE 114)*
Again, first of all I would repeat myself:
You what what your problem is? You just read the beliefs of Shias and then start saying "taubah taubah Allah Allah" without reazling that there are tons of similar things present in your school as well and most importantly there it isnt a correct way to consider sonmeone as misguided without coming to know the **reasons **and **proofs **of their particular stance!!
Coming to the point, first of all it should be kept in mind that according to Ayatullah Khomeni, the present Quran is absolutely correct. In the above cited text, he was only referring to some of those milacious sahabah who did not want to note down the actual "taweel" of Quran since it contained the merits of Ahlulbayt [as]. So there is nothing wrong in the above text.
*
[quote]
* "In the service (compilation) of heavenly books (MASAAHIF), Hazrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu) would receive the greatest reward. May Allah's Mercy be on Abu Bakr (radi Allahu anhu). He was the first person to have started the compilation of the Holy Quran (Kitabullah)."
[/quote]
Again a fabrication that has been attributed to Ali [as] in order to save Abu Bakar from the sin of rejecting Quran compiled by Ali [as]. There are a great number of traditions from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31
There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).
This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:
a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said:** "If that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."**
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32
"Hadhrath Ali compiled the Qur'an during the lifetime of the Prophet[saww] but Allah's taqdir prevented this from coming forward". Izalatul Khifa, by Shah WaliyullahVolume 4 p 497
The fact that Imam Ali [as] started compiling Quran right after the funeral of Prophet (which your shaykhan had abandoned) is a proof that the above cited text from Fathul Bari is nothing but a forgery.:)
[quote]
Yes, the above shocking statements are in Khomeini's book. Yet*, it is the firm belief of the Muslims* that the Holy Quran is the direct Word of Almighty Allah. The Holy Quran has been protected from any type of changes, removals and additions of verses or increase in volume, by Almighty Allah Himself.
[/quote]
Agreed! But didnt your beloved Sahabah and Tabayeen know about this fact? Or they were non muslims according to you when they advanced their statements regarding changes, removals and additions of verses or increase in volume?
A question that I have been trying to as kthe Sunnies since years:
"If Shia text showing tahreef in Quran cause you indigestion then why your eyes get closed and tounge get stitched when you see the open statements of Sahabah, Tabayeen and ulema which contain similar kind of views? Isnt it sheer hypocracy?"[/size]
now i want to ask the questions to all shias...is quran is complete or not...plz...not Taqiyya ?
Firstly, stop showing yourslef as a stupid by saying on the internet: "not taqiyya", since you dont know what taqqiyah is and how and when it is performed. Its just like saying to someone: "tell me if moon is of circle shap or not wiuthout doing nikah" :D Will that make sense to you?
Coming you your question, the following statment by one of the pioneer and esteemed Shia scholar Sheikh-e-Saduq (rah) (d. 381 H) who says: “Our belief is that the Qur'an which Allah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn). And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not greater in extent than that. The number of Surah's as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar.”
E’tiqadaat Sheikh-e-Saduq 93, Published Iran
By the way, what made you to ask this question? If the above cited reference from Kashaf al Asrar made you do so then by the same token shall I also start asking you this question, as there are tons of sych text in Sunni sources as well?
broher ..i do not know your definition of love...may be on 9 and 10 of muharram...hai hai karna aur sarko par nikal kar rona dhona karna aur mar kutai karna wo bhi apnai saath...:D ...may be its your love...but not 93 % sunnis...we love them by following thier path..thats true love....
[quote]
[quote]
In the art of politics, it is quite possible that a non-Prophet may excel a Prophet's knowledge."
Al-Ifanzaat-ul-Yaumiyah, by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi, vol. 6 page 349
[/quote]
in arts of politics...read the full sentence...and politics has nothing to do with religion...and the clear exampl e of this is umar(ra) and hadees of i think muslim that...once propht(pbuh) said ...i dreamed last night that i was at well and pulling water...but afrter short time..i became tired..then abu bakr(ra) took the rope...but he also tired soon...then umar(ra) took it...and start pulling water...and i have never seen such a strong man...he pulled so mch water that it became enough for all camels and men....
so thats the indication of vast conquests of umar(ra) as compared to prophet(pbuh) and abu bakr....as a result of politics.....you are just trying to twist the wordings...nothing else....
first of all...no one knows khizar is saint or nabi....
furthermore was moosa knowledge not less than khizar...!!!!!!!! SO ITS MEZAANS HIS KNOWLEDGE IS NOT EVN GREATER THAN ANY SAINT BUT ALSO GRETEST NABI AND RASOOL MOOSA.....
and furthermore...i think..fazail ammal is of zikriyya kandhalvi...and great scholars always have mny objections on this book...its not mean that any sunni aalim..saying anything...which according to your beleifs...and u start quoting them...
In his explanation of this Hadith classical Hanafi scholar, Mullah 'Ali Qari declares:
"Thayabi has commented that this Hadith means that ordinary people can be superior to ordinary Angels and superior people are superior to ordinary and superior angels in the same way that superior angels are superior to ordinary men".
Mirqat Sharah Mishkat page 510 Hadith number 5
khoemeini and all shia scholars did not talk about ordinary and special..plainly ..all imams are superior to all angels....
on us an angel come which is even greater than Jibraeel and Micaeel
Imam Jaffar Sadiq
Basair ud Darjat lilsafaraj
vol 5
chap 7
printed in iran
and we all know that Jibreel is greatest of all...and all prophets got wahi from him...but imams get "wahi" from some angel even greater than Jibreel..which even not sent to Muhammad(pbuh).....
once again i am quoting ...this....qualities...you see ...which are not given by Muhammad(pbuh) the greatest of all creations...but yet given to 12 imams....just have a look...
1.'All the Imams are infallible just like the prophets. The Shi'ites derive their religion from their immaculate Imams" (Ibid, p. 22)
2.By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185)
3.The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, prophets and messengers" (Al-Kulaini, Al-kaafi, p.255.)
4.The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice" (Ibid, p: 258.)
5.The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.)
6.The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed" (Ibid, p. 227.)
7.No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge' (Ibid, p. 228)
8.Signs of the prophets are possessed by the Imams" (Ibid, p. 231.)
9.When the Imams' time comes, they will rule in accordance with the ruling of the prophet David and his dynasty. These Imams will not need to ask for presentation of evidence before passing their judgments" (Ibid,p. 397.)
There is not a single truth possessed by a people save that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false" (Ibid, p.277.)
10.The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)
11.Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)
12.All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)
13.No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228
just again twisting....you people say imams have """knowledge """ greater than all prophets ......
from above ...point no . 3
3.The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, prophets and messengers" (Al-Kulaini, Al-kaafi, p.255.)
5.The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.)
11.Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)
13.No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228
so Maulana naontawi is saying the prophets are distinguished with followers only in knowledge but your great grand ayatullahs and muhasdiseen are saying all abobe that imams have super knowledge ..of everythinhg...past..future ..etc etc...so brother your claim here fails also....
next point...yes ...followers can exceed in deeds ..but that not mean that they also exceed in knowledge or over all exceed to any prophet
abdullah bin amr bin al'aas(ra) fasted whole the day and offered namaz all the night...while prophet(pbuh) not always did that...prophet(pbuh) even tried to stop him..but he did it just for sawab...usman(ra) used to recite whole quran in one rakah...and many many other examples...particularly of "sufia in Mujahida" etc etc...abdul qadir jilani etc...but naozobillah thats not mean these people exceed prophet(pbuh) or any other prophets....
you people blindly look at sentences and do not even bother about whats behind the scene...!!!tahts the only problem....
Sister, off-topic but you need to know the differences between the different schools of thought and practices. Sufism is not a sect for that matter (as you have listed).. You can confuse someone by saying that.
^ thankyou brother for clarification of sufis...some people..in just hatred..consider them some eviant ..but mostly they are the greatest muslims..and reformers...instead odf innovators...
so its mean that some sahabs have not written down the yats containg ahle-bait merits...so these ayats are missing...means quran is incomplete...and see you say..khoeimeini said quran is complete...in the very next instance...you denied your fact..what a best example of the sooper dooper use of "formula" of Taqiyya...
and you are considering the great sahabs of "wahi writers" ..Katiban-e-Wahi as malicious...shame on you....
so who is denying this fact....infact you have given the answer in the post yourself that is....
This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:
a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32
so who the hell denying this fact..all muslims know this and accept this...this is not a new thing or some sort of secret" mystery that you are bringing out...its the times old story...every one know that....
and iamm seerin rightly said....there was a great knowledge of quran if ali (ra) quran wa also passed to muslims..because he done it as "academic exercise "...to write quran as its revealed...and many ayats and verses...on which thier is a dispute that they are on which occasions..revael solved due to this...ibne abbas say that this ayat is about this incidence..akrama says no...makhool says something different...these all are ilmi ikhtalafats...and and remin still today...its the norm of knowledgeable society to have differences....
many many ayats correct refences could be made with ali(ra) quran..all muslims accept this....but this was just an academic exercise...throughout the history ..many great scholars done this...though with many differences also...also done by Dr.Asrar in his early age...its the kean and interesting exercise to write quran in its revelation form....
its never ever mean that """ALI quran is Different from the one that has """"""
never ever...just difference is of how it is written.....not a single word was different from ali quran to present quran....its show the greatness and knowledge..and intelligence of this unique man of human history...who deny this fact.....many people have done this exercise also...what you have proof that ali quran contained the ayats of merits of ahle-bait ...just assumptions ...nothing else....quote from authentic history ..a single quote of ali ...that says the prsent quran is incomplete...
it was theindiviual effort of ali...only allah knows how many sahabas started collecting quran after death...in written form....it was only abu bakr ..who "OFFICIALYAS A CALIPH" first started to collect quran ...on an official level by zaid bin saabit...and all great sahbs came to this task...zaid listened to all ayats with large no. of sahabas...and then quoted it down after full inquiry....as the prophet(pbuh) used to write the revelations to sahabas that this verse should be written before that..after that etc etc....
"Hadhrath Ali compiled the Qur'an during the lifetime of the Prophet[saww] but Allah's taqdir prevented this from coming forward".
Izalatul Khifa, by Shah WaliyullahVolume 4 p 497
The fact that Imam Ali [as] started compiling Quran right after the funeral of Prophet (which your shaykhan had abandoned) is a proof that the above cited text from Fathul Bari is nothing but a forgery.
I just want 2 say that if we look at what TRUE SHIA belief is, then there wont b a muslim who can say that he's not shia. Im an ehl-e-tashee.
I believe in one God. Thats ALLAH
Muhammad (s.a.w.w) is the last prophet. And after ALLAH, He is BAZURG TAREEN hasti of this universe.
And at Muhammad (s.a.w.w) silsila-e-Nabuwwat ended, but Imamat did not. ANd Imamat will last till QAYAMAT.
ANd i Love and i'll give my LIFE for the true ashaabs of our beloved Muhammad(s.a.w.w).
And one of my Brother is asking about 9th and 10th of Muharram. What we do on these 2 days is a protest. Formally called AZADARI. Infact its just not 2 days, we do it throughout whole year, perticularly in the months of Muharram and SAFAR.
I bet u wudnt have seen such a harmless protest elsewhere. Wo do MAATAM-DAARI. We do not throw rocks or destroy any of the public property. We do this in favor of Hussein (a.s) and against Yazeed Maloon(L).
Anybody who Loves Imam Hussein(a.s) can and should participate in Azadari.
A question that I have been trying to as kthe Sunnies since years:
"If Shia text showing tahreef in Quran cause you indigestion then why your eyes get closed and tounge get stitched when you see the open statements of Sahabah, Tabayeen and ulema which contain similar kind of views? Isnt it sheer hypocracy?"
we have revealed this zikar and we are its guardian (al-quran)
sura hujrat ...verse no.9
tocollectquran and recite is our responsibility ...when we recite it O Muhammad(pbuh) ...you also recite it...then its elobaration is allso on us...
sura qiyyamh ...ayat 17-19
the quran which revaeled on Muhammad by Jibreel has 17,000 ayats...
alkafi fil-usool
kita fazlul quran
vol 2
pg.634
there are 6236 ayats in present quran
Abu ali Tibrisi
great sia mufassir
Tafseer Majbal biyaan
vol 1
pg.407
so according to shias only 6236 out of 17000 present today...rest all are lost...
we have Mashafe ftima which is 3 times your present quran and not a single word it contains which in your quran is present
Imam Jaffar Sadiq
Asul Kafi
Babe zikrae sahifa..waljiffar//wal mushafau fatima
vol 1
pg 239
printed in iran
holy prophet(buh) said that in mina...i am leaving 3 things...
1.quran
2.ahle bait
kaaba
but they changed quran...killed ahle bait...and destroyed kaaba
i think the same sadooq which you have qouted here...
[quote]
Coming you your question, the following statment by one of the pioneer and esteemed Shia scholar Sheikh-e-Saduq (rah) (d. 381 H) who says:
“Our belief is that the Qur'an which Allah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn). And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not greater in extent than that. The number of Surah's as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar.”
E’tiqadaat Sheikh-e-Saduq 93, Published Iran
[/quote]
Sooper dooper formula of taqiyya...my sweet brother...tension nai lainai ka....kya ... :D
umar asked ali when real quran will appear ..ali replied when cave immam will come in the world
Al-Ihtijaj tabrissi
pg..76..77
iran
1302 higri
8 imam gave me once a quran ..i opened it...there were 70 names of quraish who have done "kufr" and written in that quran..then 8 imam took this quran from me...
al kafi fil asool
kitab fazle quran
vol 2
pg 631
iran
and pg 62 printed in india
usman collected people to one quran and brnt other ..so usman lost intentinally a big part of quran
Sharah Nehjul Balagha
kamal ul dim maisan Bahrani
vol 11
pg 1
iran
many ayats are not in present quran
Al anwaar Naumania
Naimatul allah al jizairi
the realquran is only with cave-imam
he will show people quran of ali
asool Kafi
vol 1
pg 228
tehran
ali went to umar and abu bakr and said that i have collected quran.both of then said plz..show us....so we can check our quran authenticity....ali said no..i just
want to tell you...
Asool Kafi
vol 2
pg 633
iran
when Imam Mahdi will come..he has the Mushafe Fatima(the real quran)
Al Ihtijaj fil Tabrisi
muqaddma
all imam have orderedthier shias to read this quran untill and unless real quran of cabve imam will apper..then this quran will raisen to sky....and only ali quran will prevail....
Al Anwaar naumania
al jazairi
some one asked Imam Raza thatwe recite the verses of this quran..he said recite in the way as other sunnis do...till cave imam will come with your real quran
Asool Kafi
vol 2
pg 619
iran
pg 664 in india printed version
My definition of love = Love without Munafiqat i.e. Not to claim Loving Ahlulbayt [as] and at the same time using “ra” for all those najis people who had audacity to fight against Ahlulbayt [as]. Simple is that.
Agar yeh matam jis ko aap ‘mar kutai’ kahtay hain itna hi bura lagta hai to zara apni amaan jaan ko to samjha lia hota kay amaaan yeh kia karahi ho, Shia hogye ho kia oho, shaid apkay mullah hazraat yeh bhi aap say chupaya hoga, to paish e khidmat hai, ayesha farmati hain: “Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women”.
Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 5, page 420
Thandak pargye ? Now coming back to the point, even Allah gives you 10 lives, you wil never be able to answer the question as to why your ancestors were Nasibi and Kariji, and since they were, how can you claim to love Ahlulbayt [as].
Thats quite stupid and in feeble attempt to defend your belief. What is politics, some rocket science? Even if it was rocket science that would obviously not out of the knowledge of Allah [swt] who grants it to his chosen people (prophets) but politics is nothing but the ‘affairs of a state’ which all the prophets could do as they were among their people to proclaim the message of God related to all aspects of life which includes the way to govern the people. Do our opponents want to say that the principles which Prophet [s] adopted to keep the affairs of the state had some flawed and yet a someone among them was more adept at it?
Pathetic indeed!
yes, acha hua yaad dila dia, and since you have rasied the fact that Musa had less knowledge than Khizar let me shaere somthing with you. We are aware about the immense knowledge of Prophet Khidr [as] which even Prophet Musa [as] was unable to follow. Worthy to note is that fact that according to the belief of Ahl’ul Sunnah Prophet Khidr [as] learnt from Imam Abu Hanifa making him superior to not only Prophet Khidr [as] but Prophet Moses [as] as well. Not only this but according to Sunni belief Prophet Isa [as] on his appearance will have to follow and rule according to the teachings of Imam Abu Hafina which makes Abu Hanifa superior to Prophet Isa [as] as well. We read in one of the most esteemed Hanafi works:
“Hadhrat Khidr learnt the Ahkaam-e-Shariah from Abu Hanifa in 30 years and then taught Abul Qasim Qasheeri in three years who then wrote a thousand books of Hanafi Mazhab and kept them in a box and placed that in Jehjoon River, when Hazrat Essa comes near the Qayamah, he will take out those books and act according to them.”
Dur ul Mukhtar, Volume 1 page 34, Muqadimah (Fazail Imam e Aazam) published by M.H.Saeed Co. Karachi.
We also read:
**“Hadhrat Isa will order as per the Mazhab of Imam [Abu Hanifa], it also prevailed in the Kingdoms of Rome and Transoxania till the days or Shariah holder, and even exists till now.” **
Dur ul Mukhtar, Volume 1 page 33, Muqadimah (Fazail Imam e Aazam) published by M.H.Saeed Co. Karachi.
yes and all Imams [as] are special. Thats what your Imam Tahaqi said:
“Thayabi has commented that this Hadith means that ordinary people can be superior to ordinary Angels and superior people are superior to ordinary and superior angels in the same way that superior angels are superior to ordinary men”.
Mirqat Sharah Mishkat page 510 Hadith number 5
And if this isnt suffice for you, then the following tradition will make your stomache at ease:
Abu Huraira and Ibn Abbas both narrated:
The messenger of Allah preached and then ordered Bilal to call for prayer (adhan), then the people gathered, then the prophet stood on the pulpit and said: “Oh people, get closer and make space for those who are behind you”. He said that three times and the people came closer and looked behind but nobody was there, the messenger of Allah said: “Get closer and make space for those who are behind you”. He said that three times and the people came closer and looked behind but nobody was there, then the messenger of Allah repeated that for the third time and the people saw no one behind them, then a man stand up and asked: ‘Whom we shall make space for? the angels?”. The messenger of Allah said: “No, if they were among you, they would not be in front of you or behind you and would not be on the left side or the right side”. The man asked: “Why they can not be in front of us or behind us? Are they superior to us?”. “The messenger of Allah said: “No, you (people) are superior to the angels”. Then the man sat down.
Al-Matalib al-Aaliya by Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Baab al-Manaqib, No 4279
Musnad al-Harith by Al-Harith bin Abi Usama, Kitab al-Salat, No. 204
So this time talking of Imams to angels is hurting your stomach. Okay, no problem, for this problem as well I have a dose for you.
Reply One – The Qur’an proves that angels can visit non Prophets
Numani had sought to suggest to his Sunni readership that the Angels only visit Prophets. Such a position cannot be proven from the Qur’an Allah (swt) refers to the following conversation between Sarah and the angels, in Surah Hud verses 69-73:
***There came Our messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, “Peace!” He answered, “Peace!” and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf. ***
***But when he saw their hands went not towards the (meal), he felt some mistrust of them, and conceived a fear of them. They said: “Fear not: We have been sent against the people of Lut.” ***
***And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob. ***
***She said: “Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!” ***
***They said: “Dost thou wonder at Allah.s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!” ***
Also in Quran weread the conversation of Gebrail with Maryam and also in Quran we read that Allah sends Allah sent “WAHI” to mother of Moses. If Angels can come and talk to Hadhrath Maryam (as) and she can likewise converse with then there should be no objection if we believe that our Imams were visited by angels.
Reply Two: Sunni Ulema believed that pious people can maintain contact with angels
As far as meeting angels is concerned Allah (swt) says in Surah Fusilaat Hamim al-Sajdah (41) verses 30-31:
***In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them (from time to time): “Fear ye not!” (they suggest), "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), the which ye were promised! ***
***"We are your protectors in this life and in the Hereafter: therein shall ye have all that your souls shall desire; therein shall ye have all that ye ask for!- ***
We would like to tell the exited ‘followers’ of Maulana Manzoor Numani that one of the prestigious scholars of their own school Allamah Shabeer Ahmad Uthmani in his commentary of this verse stated:
“It is quite possible that during this world there occurs the descending of angels on pious and good people who provide them inspiration on religious and worldly matters on the instructions of Allah, which becomes the reason of the well being and satisfaction of their hearts…Majority have said that this too is the statement of angels. That the angels inspire into their hearts and fortifies them.”
Tafseer Uthmani page 638
Imam Ghazzali states:
**“The pious people whilst sitting can see spirits of the Prophets and angels. They can hear them and can benefit from what they are saying”. ** Al Munzul mun zalaal page 33, Bab ul Turuq al Sufiya, published in Istanbul.
Uthmani and Ghazzali states that angels can also guide pious people, if normal people can be guided in such a manner, then why not our Imams who have been divinely appointed by Allah (swt) to guide mankind? What is the objection if we believe that Ruh al Quds converses with them?
Since you are too keen to present yourself as a most stupid fellow here, therefore you do not bother to read what other peroson had written and then repeat yourself to become the target of humilation. HAD YOU EVEN BOTHERED TO LOOK WHAT I HAD WRITTEN? I had written:
**some of those milacious sahabah who did not want to note down the actual “taweel” of Quran since it contained the merits of Ahlulbayt [as]. **
Do you even know the meaning of Taweel? Did I write that Sahabah deleted “ayats” from Quran? Are to soo duffer that you cant even differentiate b/w “taweel” and the actual “ayat” ? I really fell sorry for you.
I called them malicious because they had animosity towards Ahlulbayt [as] and did not record the “meanings” that contained the merits of Ahlulbayt [as] while taking up the task of compiling Quran. If calling some of the “Wahi writers” as milicious led to send “shame” on someone then aap ko khuda rasool ka wasta, apnay waldain ka wasta hai, send shame on the following famous female personaility of your school, who testified that Usman made changes in Quran.
“Hameedah Bint Yunus narrates: “My father [Abi] who was 80 years old recited for me the verse of salutation from the Mushaf of Ayesha with the following words: i.e Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. And on those who came to the first lines of prayers”** This verse was in this very manner before Uthman had made changes in Quran.”
Tafseer Dur e Manthur, Volume 5 page 220, verse of salutation
Al Musahif, page 95, Zikr Mushaf e Ayesha
So we came to know that according to the Mushaf of Ayesha “And on those who came to the first lines of prayers” was the part of the verse [33:56] while Hameedah bin Yunus put a serious charge against Uthman by saying This verse was in this very manner before Uthman had made changes in Quran.”
So are you going to condemn Ayesha for the act you condemn Shias ??? Yes or no? Ya phir saara bughz Shian e Ali kay lye hi sanbhaal rakha hai? Double Standards!!!
That means the Quran we have today compiled by Uthman does not contain great knowledge of Quran ?!!
Of course, if you will abandon the ‘gate of knowledge’ (baab ul ilm) and will hold the hands of those who were kaafir to the half of their ages and then came into the fold of Islam and some of them then turned Nasibi and Khariji, you will always be in ‘dispute’. The whole point of my discussion was against the fabrictaed reference you had cited from Fathul Bari about Ali [as] testifiying that Abu Baakr was the first person to compile the Quran, and I proved that it was a lie since it was Ali bin Abi Talib [as] for ‘first’ compiled the Quran but Abu Bakar rejected to accept that. Aur kisi ki auqaat hi kia kay woh Quran kay baray main jaan sakay siway Ali [as] kay because Ali (AS) frequently stated in his sermons:** "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me ****about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you ****about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question **about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah,
**for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was ****sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain **or in a mountain."
al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, part 2, p101
al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319
.
Again you brought stupidity, did i say that the present Quran is incomplete? The text which the those sahabah who had animosity towards Ahlulbayt [as] deleted from Quran was not the verses rather the “meanings” which Prophet [s] had told them, but the took out the actual ‘meanings’ of those verses. And as for the proof about the content of Quran that was compiled by Imam Ali [as], there are references in Shia books whch shows that it contained a great knowledge and the ‘actual meanings’ of verses that contained merits of Ahlulbayt [as].
Now no need to do absurd Qiyas, these tons of sources testifies that it was only Ali bin Abi Talib [as] who compiled the Quran.
Now that is another issue as to why Abu Bakar and Co. abandoned Ali bin Abi Talib [as] who was the ‘gate of knowledge’ and know everything about Holy quran and yet given to those people who knew nothing about Quran. Atleast, atleast, your kings could have inducted a sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masud who according to your own Bukhari, prophet instruected to learn Quran from him. So that is another lengthy debate, regarding the hidden/actual motives behind the decision of your caliph of giving the task of quran to ignorant ones.
And your point is? If you want to prove by these thise verse that this Quran is protected then you should know that number of Shia scholars have also relied on this very verse when they advanced their views about the completeness of Holy Qauran, but since you are highly infulenced by some of the Nasibi and munafiq sahabah, hence I know you will turn your eyes from those Shia statments.
Okay, i will be now talking in the language which you understand.
According to research of Ibn Abbas [ra] fifty verses have been added to the Quran of Uthman
Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti has recorded a tradition from Ibn Abbas[ra] wherein he says: “The number of verses in Quran is 6616”
Tafseer Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84
Just see how Nawasib toy with Quran. They are uncertain themselves about the number of verses in Quran; Ibn Abbas advanced a view, then Nasibi Ibn Kathir threw his own dice while Nasibi ulema of present era live in another dreamland. The Quran Muslims have in their hands contains 6666 verses that means the above cited Sunni tradition makes Ibn Abbas the refuter of 50 verses of Quran.
Hadrath Ayesha held the belief of Tahrif in Quran compiled by Uthman
We rely on the following esteemed books of Ahle Sunnah.
Tafseer Itqan (Urdu), Volume 2 page 65
Tafseer Dur e Manthur, Volume 5 page 220, verse of salutation
Al Musahif by Imam Abu Bakar Sajistani, page 95, Zikr Mushaf e Ayesha
Allamah Jalaluddin Syuti records in Tafseer Itqan: حدثنا حجاج عن ابن جريج اخبرني ابن ابي حميد عن حميدة بنت ابي يونس قالت: قرا على ابي وهوابن ثمانين سنة في مصحف عائشة: ان الله وملائكته يصلون على النبي يا ايها الذين امنوا صلوا عليه وسلموا تسليما وعلى الذين يصلون الصفوف الاول. قالت: قبل ان يغير عثمان المصاحف. “Hameedah Bint Yunus narrates: “My father [Abi] who was 80 years old recited for me the verse of salutation from the Mushaf of Ayesha with the following words: i.e Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. And on those who came to the first lines of prayers” This verse was in this very manner before Uthman had made changes in Quran.”
Tafseer Itqan (Urdu), Volume 2 page 65
The reference can also be read on the online version of Al-Itqan at
The verse which is found I the present Quran is in this manner:
[Yusufali 33:56] Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.
So we came to know that according to the Mushaf of Ayesha ***“And on those who came to the first lines of prayers” ***was the part of the verse [33:56] while Hameedah bin Yunus put a serious charge against Uthman by saying This verse was in this very manner before Uthman had made changes in Quran.”
And, he is talking about “taweel” of Quran, the “meanings” that were changed by some of the Nasibi Sahabah, but those who are happy to have ties with ignorant Nawasib, they would always understand as if he was talking of the verses.
Sooper dooper formula of taqiyya…my sweet brother…tension nai lainai ka…kya …
[/quote]
Oho, to jub Shia statement day to woh Taqqiyah hai lakin aap kay apnay chahnay walon main say aik shaks ki itni oqaat thi kay bharay darbaar main is jahan ki sab say azeem tareen khatoon ko yeh kahday kay tumahra apnay walid kay tarkay main koi hisa nehen aur phir khulam khula jhoot bhi ghar lay kay unhoon nay mujh say kaha tha kay un ka koi tarka nehen hota. to woh jhoot jhoot nehen hai lakin Shia agar sach kahain to bhi aap kay lye taaqiyah hai. khair anyways, everybody can see how cunningly you just quoted my psot but had no courage whatsoever yo asnwer it, hence i am reapting it again:
*Agreed! But didnt your beloved Sahabah and Tabayeen know about this fact? Or they were non muslims according to you when they advanced their statements regarding changes, removals and additions of verses or increase in volume? *
*A question that I have been trying to as kthe Sunnies since years: *
“If Shia text showing tahreef in Quran cause you indigestion then why your eyes get closed and tounge get stitched when you see the open statements of Sahabah, Tabayeen and ulema which contain similar kind of views? Isnt it sheer hypocracy?”
No he didnt, but since your mental capacity has been restricted because of following a few people of banu umayah having doubtful linage, therefore you cannot comprehend it and bring your own absurd qiyas.
Yeah, that Quran will be the Quran compiled by first Imam Ali bin Abi Talib [as] which according to your previous post contained** a great knowledge.** So there isnt anything about tahreef here, the Quran which Imam Mahdi [as] will bring will not have difference of verses rather the difference of ‘meanigs’ which your ancestors deleted
Thehadith has been taken from the traditions of Sheikh Saffar Qummi and Sheikh Ayashi and it is narrated from Ibrahim bin Umer and there is a difference of opinion about him that whether he was weak or Mothiq [see Tanqeh al Maqal, Volume 1 page 27].
But again, having name of some people does not mean that it tahreef has taken place in verses (ayats) rather those names came as “meanigs” of those verse. The question is, why did your kings deleted those names of kufaar from Quraish, un kay rishtedaroon kay naam to nehen aa gyay thay kaheen
anyways, aik tuhfa paish e khidmat hai jo apko woh najis nasibi website nehen batayeegi na ho apkay nasibi madaris.
Ahle Sunnah believe that Ali[as]’s name was mentioned in Quran which was deleted out by Uthman.
We read in Holy Quran:
[Shakir 5:67] O Messenger! Deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.
We have relied on the following esteemed Sunni Tafseers of above mentioned verse.
Tafseer Mazhari Volume 3 page 353 published by Daar ul Isha`t Karachi
We read in Tafseer Ruh al Ma’ani:
“ Hafiz Ahmed bin Musa bin Mardawayh has narrated with his isnad from Abdullah Ibn Masud that: "During the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (s) we used to recite this verse as: “O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; 'that ‘Ali is the Maula of the Momineen’, if you don’t….”
Isn’t it sheer injustice on part of Nawasib that they quickly throw edict of Kufr when such traditions are mentioned by any Shia but when some Sunni scholar records or when their beloved sahabi narrates traditions like this, they don’t find any problem with that?
oho, shaid apkay mullah hazraat yeh bhi aap say chupaya hoga, to paish e khidmat hai, ayesha farmati hain:
