Sher's Corner

There is nothing new in Sher’ comments. From time to time many scholars have raised the same issues.
This mania is there because the Islam propaganda machinery is very alive, every time creating a mirage of so called science, the only and only morality, the most human, at the same time when practical Islam or many Muslims do something entirely different, create a fear sense all around. Whose fault is it?
Though I do not understand if someone talks of Islam so openly, and he is not lying, the Muslims have only one rescue, he is anti Islam, he hates Muslims.
Have courage; face the issue, why to run for rescues and excuses all the time.

Mr Sher, show me any religion which says something different to Islam? Why you are after Islam? Let us be genuine!

its good that u have posted all ur views on Islam here in one thread....
it wud help also if u posted the site/book where u have copied ur views from....

but at the end, u just showed that u have tossed logic out of the window and r not willing to think....
"have four eye-witnesses for rape" is a law that perhaps only ppl like u (who refuse to think) can accept....
if anyone came up as a witness to such a crime, he himself must be punished for witnessing it and not trying to stop it....
let me know where in shariah u found such a rule....
just if one stupid country implements a law, it doesnt make it Islamic by any means....

i conclude that u r useless to argue with and will never discuss things to 'learn' or increase knowledge but will rather keep beating around the bush sticking to the sentences u have memorized from the sites/books (which is so very obvious)....

Re: Re: Re: Re: Female Prophets in Islam?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

"Your wives are as A TILTH unto you; so approach YOUR TILTH when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe." S. 2:223

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities which God hath gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God hath of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness ye have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, AND SCOURGE THEM: but if they are obedient to you then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" S. 4:34 Rodwell
[/QUOTE]

NOTE: Can you be kind enough to know me where are you getting all this stuff from? Please?

The verse you mention has been greatly misconceived by many people who focus merely on its surface meaning, taking it to allow wife beating. When the setting is not taken into account, it isolates the words in a way that distorts or falsifies the original meaning. Before dealing with the issue of wife-battering in the perspective of Islam, we should keep in mind that the original Arabic wording of the Qur'an is the only authentic source of meaning. If one relies on the translation alone, one is likely to misunderstand it.

Commenting on this issue, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

"According to the Qur'an the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Ar-Rum: 21)

The Qur'an urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. [In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects]. Allah Almighty says: “Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (An-Nisa’: 19)

It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him. But the husband should also use his authority with respect and kindness towards his wife. If there arises any disagreement or dispute among them, then it should be resolved in a peaceful manner. Spouses should seek the counsel of their elders and other respectable family members and friends to batch up the rift and solve the differences.

However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely.

The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

Generally, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, adds:

"If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.

Even here, that maximum measure is limited by the following:

a. It must be seen as a rare exception to the repeated exhortation of mutual respect, kindness and good treatment. Based on the Qur'an and Hadith, this measure may be used in the cases of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis (nushuz). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be tried first.

b. As defined by Hadith, it is not permissible to strike anyone's face, cause any bodily harm or even be harsh. What the Hadith qualifies as "dharban ghayra mubarrih", or light striking, was interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of siwak! They further qualified permissible "striking" as that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse," "family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they are seen as national concerns.

c. The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness of continued refraction does not imply its desirability. In several hadiths, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) discouraged this measure. Here are some of his sayings in this regard:

"Do not beat the female servants of Allah";

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

In another hadith the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said: “How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?”

d. True following of the Sunnah is to follow the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who never resorted to that measure, regardless of the circumstances.

e. Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances. Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain persons but may not be effective in others. By definition, a "permissible" act is neither required, encouraged or forbidden. In fact it may be to spell out the extent of permissibility, such as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted or unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which can lead to excesses and real abuse.

f. Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any "Muslim" can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an or Hadith). Such excesses and violations are to be blamed on the person(s) himself, as it shows that they are paying lip service to Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)."

If you ever come to Pakistan do let me know I would like to deliver some mater to you on this. I've a lecture which completes the topic. I great great detail

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Sher what is your point? I think you argue just for the sake of arguing and not with an open mind or even with the possibility that you just might be wrong. And why do you judge Islam by court cases today? If you wanna judge Islam, go read the Quran and ahadith. I don't know much about the four witnesses thing so maybe someone else will enlighten you. And yeah, courts aren't exactly paragons of what Islam really represents, do you think these people really act without bias?
[/QUOTE]

Sarah Dear,,, My point is, Well, Tell me do you believe in love? If so you believe in God. When you love you experience God. There is no need to bow in front of air and pray to a wall. God does not need our worship. Fill your heart with love and you’ll experience God.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
its good that u have posted all ur views on Islam here in one thread....
it wud help also if u posted the site/book where u have copied ur views from....

but at the end, u just showed that u have tossed logic out of the window and r not willing to think....
"have four eye-witnesses for rape" is a law that perhaps only ppl like u (who refuse to think) can accept....
if anyone came up as a witness to such a crime, he himself must be punished for witnessing it and not trying to stop it....
let me know where in shariah u found such a rule....
just if one stupid country implements a law, it doesnt make it Islamic by any means....

i conclude that u r useless to argue with and will never discuss things to 'learn' or increase knowledge but will rather keep beating around the bush sticking to the sentences u have memorized from the sites/books (which is so very obvious)....
[/QUOTE]

If you are talking to me, I didn't move these posts here I don't know who did but it is perfectly allright with me. The hadith and quranic verses are from Quran and Hadith and they are well known. And by the way, I am not argueing with you. I don't even feel replying to your post. However I am replying to this post cos this has strengthen my veiws on the degree of stupidity when it comes to having a Blind Faith braging about it openly.

Now If these Hadiths are true then this can bring the fondation of morality in religion crumbling down. I mean, the thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Ayesha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

When you love you experience God...Fill your heart with love and you’ll experience God.
[/QUOTE]

Love of what?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *

Love of what?
[/QUOTE]

You are joking,,,,, don't tell me you don't know Love. oh no no ,,, I got it. You beleive in Bind Faith so, of course, you wouldn't know....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

You are joking,,,,, don't tell me you don't know Love. oh no no ,,, I got it. You beleive in Bind Faith so, of course, you wouldn't know....
[/QUOTE]

I thought that was a very simple question, even for someone like you. Sorry if it was too difficult.

So what kind of love are you talking about and who or what are you asking us to love?

Sher, first of all, I am not your "dear". Second, Allah hardly needs my worship. I am just one person among billions who have lived and died, of what consequence am I? It's me who needs to worship Him.

As for Hazrat Aysha being 6 years old when the prophet saw married her, as far as I am aware, she was engaged to someone else before being married to Prophet Mohammed saw, so I think at that time, that may have been the custom and that age was seen as permissible for marriage. Otherwise, why would her father give his daughter away in marriage to someone he didnt see fit? it's not like the prophet saw coerced him or threatened him.

By the way, I had the exact same questions and the same seething hatred for Islam as you had a few years ago. That was until I bothered to sit down and read the quran and hadith with an open mind. Maybe you should try that, and not jump so quickly to conclusions which insult so many people and only serve to paint you as a fool who didnt bother doing his research fully.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Sher, first of all, I am not your "dear". Second, Allah hardly needs my worship. I am just one person among billions who have lived and died, of what consequence am I? It's me who needs to worship Him.

As for Hazrat Aysha being 6 years old when the prophet saw married her, as far as I am aware, she was engaged to someone else before being married to Prophet Muhammaned saw, so I think at that time, that may have been the custom and that age was seen as permissible for marriage. Otherwise, why would her father give his daughter away in marriage to someone he didnt see fit? it's not like the prophet saw coerced him or threatened him.

By the way, I had the exact same questions and the same seething hatred for Islam as you had a few years ago. That was until I bothered to sit down and read the quran and hadith with an open mind. Maybe you should try that, and not jump so quickly to conclusions which insult so many people and only serve to paint you as a fool who didnt bother doing his research fully.
[/QUOTE]

Sarah, I was not being sarcastic or anything if that is how you took it. I addressed you dear only out of respect. of course you dont have to be my "dear" if you dont want to, Sarah Dear,,, oh sorry, I did it again. I don't hate Islam.... and I have read Quran and Bible, which probably is one of the reasons for me to reject religions all together. I was born Muslim by the way. I know religions a whole lot more than you think I do and I am as open minded as any one can be. OK, I did not say that Muhammad forced Ayasha's father for the marriage. question is why did he feel the need to marry a child when he had quite a few wives already. If it was a common practice among arabs to marry children as young as 6 or 9 at the time, wasn't he supposed to ban the practice instead.

:rotfl:

He didn’t have “quite a few wives already” when he married Aisha. Shows how much you really know…

In the following Hadith the prophet confided to Ahesha that he had dreamed of her before asking for her from her father.

Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' "

Whether Muhammad had actually such dream or he just said it to please Ayesha is not the point. What matters here is that it indicates that Ayesaha was a baby being “carried” by an angel when the Prophet dreamed of her.

There are numerous hadithes that explicitly reveal the age of Ayesha at the time of her marriage. Here are some of them.

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

:yawn: Sher, you have already been answered… now run along and do something useful with yourself like learning to spell or something…

I hope you can swim Sher 'cause you are treading through some pretty deep waters here with the concepts under discussion... I know how easily confused you can become... another nice copy-and-paste by the way.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

But this is not what the above verse is saying.
[/QUOTE]

Isn't it? Care to read it again...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *

[/QUOTE]

So, how do you explain the verses of the Quran in that post? Actualy I can help you with that... I mean if you need my help that is.. How about if expand on that post farther and continue till you converted to Islam or went to sleep.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window."
[/QUOTE]

Just like many a folks over here are aching to toss your blasphmeous out the window.

Sher, where’s your response to my posts? :confused:

Re: How much do you know about Islam?

Nadia, a question for you… What is the date of birth of God?

Re: Re: How much do you know about Islam?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *

Nadia, a question for you.... What is the date of birth of God?
[/QUOTE]

You can celebrate mine instead, you know i am God's gift to the creatures of middle earth.