Re: Shaving The Beard:
so basically u are saying that if a beard was not like the beard that the prophet had then from an islamic perspective it is okay to make fun of it?
please think before you answer this one.
is making fun good? no, is making fun of sunnah kufar? yes, is making fun of something i do kufar? figure it out.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
muali lovely to see a sound of reason. now as i asked before does it cross your mind that some mohtrams and mohtramas might find you ridiculous when you poke fun at the four imams yet fail yourself to do namaz and then get offended when people dont take you as even a remote authority on religion?
i've never shoved my opinions down some body's throat unlike your self and ur buddies on this forum..........i never claimed to know everything about islam but watever i know surely doent make me a muslim according to the bullcrap i hear on this forum but i would argue with every one of those posters who claims to know every thing about islam and are always ready to pronounce u a kaffir.....no body has such authority.....
rahi baat 4 immamz ki......as mr fraudia said....." no one made any of the 'imams" the thekay daar of islam"......so meri bala se sare gaye tail laney........
I dont offer namaz..... like i said million times thats my personal business i would deal with it when i'll face god.Cuz its god who said that pray or get roasted in his backyard.
i chose the BBQ.
so thats not an issue anymore for me. and i 've never preached my idology to anyone cuz i believe its their personal matter.......
Do u see where am getting at????
Re: Shaving The Beard:
@mulai if everything is your personal matter then why participate in the thread in first place? who is shoving it down your throat? is someone holding a gun to your head to grow a beard? everybody is entitled to mention their take on the topic, and when one talks what is right and wrong according to islam people will inquire about the source of information which enables you to make that decision. you are something if you think nobody will inquire when you say this is not how islam is? so give your reasons and if they are just yours than you havent got a leg to stand on since you are an average joe like me. none of us is alim, faqih or imam.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
And thats exactly i'm trying to do here mr einstein.........
its a forum .....i'm giving my input ,my opinion,my thoughts......based on my knowledge.....i'm not preaching my thought ( just a reminder for u)
and thats exactly one should do on a forum....... their inputs,their thoughts...........
praying is a personal matter my dear joe....its between u and god.......unless u wanna make it public.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
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please show where quran says what is wajib and to leave a wajib is a sin.
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Its an order of Prophet s.a.w and going against it is sin. Now I believe in 4 proofs and for me anything that is proven from any 1 of the 4 proofs is enough. I am not Ijma or Qiyas rejector.
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secondly prove that this is a wajib and not a sunnah
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View of all the scholars.
Now you prove me from Quran that its Sunnah (as you mentioned). Not your personal views.
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lastly prove that even if it is something the prophet did that everyone MUST do it.
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Yes and if he ordered us, then its part of the religion.
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why? where are you getting that from.
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All the Shair of Islam are from Allah and to make fun of them is clear kufar. No need to say more.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
@muali ,which you did.
you dont make much sense. if you say what you please you are stating your opinion, if you you state your opinion as an authority then anyone who questions it is thakaydar of islam? the difference between you and others is they are sticking up for imam's say on the matter and you are sticking up for your say. loose the moral high ground of being holy yourself .
Re: Shaving The Beard:
that is what is preplexing about you. You are asking us to use our heads yet fail to mention exactly how. You are not making your own madhubs but want people to forget about four gentlemen
I am not saying anywhere to forget teh 4 gentlemen, they were wise learned scholars and they should be used as sources. but
1) they should not be considered infallible
2) the elavation of their interpretations to 'madhabs' is ridiculous. these are not mutually exclusive, but the best interpretations of 4 scholars, who btw did not agree with each other a 100%
3) their interpretations are not god's word, so stop, read and think about it
so they should take your advice and then dance in rain?
I dont recall giving anyone religious advise to dance anywhere let alone in the rain. someone must have heard something I said and passed it to others and others, along the way ppl added or changed stuff to it and then someone's interpretation of that may have come across as yours truly giving advise to ppl to dance in the rain, but really I did not..
typical stuff...probably got distortedmisquoted and all laong the way. heck maybe I never even said anything and it was just attributed to me..;)
i mean who is going to tell them detail about every other issue?
well from where i stand it appears that even these four gentlemen did not give details on all topics that they agreed upon, and secondly they did not give details about stuff that was not present in their eras.
you think beard is a non issue,
I dont think its as big of a deal as ppl make it to be...wajib. sin to shave. The prophet had a beard from what we know or have been told, so if you want to emulate him sure grow a beard. if someone does not want to grow a beard then let them be, its not farz after all.
some might consider it as a sunnah and no sunnah is less rewarding than any other. its all about perspective.
sure so consider it a sunnah, and if you want to follow all or selected sunnahs then go ahead and follow them, but dont equate them to farz or call them wajib or lazim or what nots.
there is a hadith where Prophet saw encouraged to grow beard and somebody mentioned it in the thread,
as you said it was about perspective
was it a saying for that time and place
was he hdaeeth passed accurately
was the hadeeth accurate.
I mean ther eis hadeeth that explains what quran has mentioned, and then there is hadeeth that is completely seperate from what is mentoned in quran. I mean you have to evaluate it, especially if it is saying that it is something which is a must. If it was such a big thing that not doing it was a sin, would you not think that god would have noted it in the quran somewhere.
when you say these four people were prone to human error it is a possibility that so are you or me for that matter.
I am very prone to human error,
I dont think I have 1/100th the knowledge these gentleman had,
and nither am I saying that I must be right. I am saying that what they have said can be wrong, can be off base, so taking it as word of god is wrong.
I also dont think that these gentlemen wanted muslims to create these mutually exclusive groups in their name, just like I doubt that anyone in the earlier era wanted for ppl to call themselves shia or sunni.
just because I can be wrong does not mean that these gentlemen cant be wrong.
But you dont give any clear answers as to what is sunnah and what is not, nor do you put up a good case that makes any sense.
I do however say that farz is what we were asked to do, and faraiz are noted in teh quran, rest os all up to interpretation, while I do not want to miss on something that I should be doing, I also do not want to do something that I should not be doing. I mean someone can say that saying that beard is a must is a biddah and by elevating it to the level of farz one is encouraging and practicing biddah.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Its an order of Prophet s.a.w and going against it is sin. Now I believe in 4 proofs and for me anything that is proven from any 1 of the 4 proofs is enough. I am not Ijma or Qiyas rejector.
why dont we have ijtehad on it now?
Now you prove me from Quran that its Sunnah (as you mentioned). Not your personal views.
true, it may not even be a sunnah. thanks for bringing that up too. I had not thought of it before, but thank you now I do :)
Yes and if he ordered us, then its part of the religion.
if it as a farz, allah would have commanded us himself.
All the Shair of Islam are from Allah and to make fun of them is clear kufar. No need to say more.
shair? err poets or lions, i dont understand
Re: Shaving The Beard:
^o bhai sahib who is calling it farz here? it was said to my understanding that it is sunnah and wajib. i dont personally know about the wajib bit, but i have read about it being a sunnah. anyone who makes of sunnah is comitting kufar. you think they are not. your two cents and my two cents. i use imams to back up my two cents, you use your own interpretation.cheers.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
and to my knowledge to call ijtehad on something the issue has to be new and religious ruling have to be non existent. you cant call ijtehad on known issues.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
^o bhai sahib who is calling it farz here? it was said to my understanding that it is sunnah and wajib. i dont personally know about the wajib bit, but i have read about it being a sunnah. anyone who makes of sunnah is comitting kufar. you think they are not. your two cents and my two cents. i use imams to back up my two cents, you use your own interpretation.cheers.
what is wajib??
who decided it is wajib..so eve you have some questons on this wajib business
now as far as sunnah goes,
what s the debate here, that u must grow a beard, or you must not make fun of it.
now...
if you missed my point earlier, by the manners that islam teaches us..not that all of us follow them well, we should not be making fun of anyone's physical attributes right? sunnah or no sunnah.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
and to my knowledge to call ijtehad on something the issue has to be new and religious ruling have to be non existent. you cant call ijtehad on known issues.
so in past whe ijtehad was done it was on new issues only?
when was the most recent ijtehad done and on what topics?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
What about guys who wax their bodies?
I love to swim.
And to swim fast your body needs to glide in water and for that you need to have no hair on your body and thus recently I had my body hair waxed so I can swim for the summer.
Is that Haram too?
And what kind of punishment awaits me in the after life if I shave my facial hair?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
head to toe?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
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why dont we have ijtehad on it now?
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Because there is Ijma on it and its clearly proven from Sunnah and Sahabas. Ijtehad is done when there is difference or something new arise up. Tomorrow you will say lets do iijtehad on Salat.
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true, it may not even be a sunnah. thanks for bringing that up too. I had not thought of it before, but thank you now I do :)
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So now you change your opinion that its not even Sunnah. Then what is it and please proof from Quran only.:D
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if it as a farz, allah would have commanded us himself.
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Not all farz are mentioned in the Quran, unless you only believe in Quran and not the other 3 sources?
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shair? err poets or lions, i dont understand
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Sha'air, or salient features.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
You can wax your legs, but not sure about chest.
But come on only girly men would shave their chest. :D
Re: Shaving The Beard:
head to toe?
not the head, for that i wear a skull cap
but all areas which is not covered by swimming shorts is hair free :)
didn't hurt that much, Chinese Wax specialists are really good, cheap and fast too
Re: Shaving The Beard:
You can wax your legs, but not sure about chest.
But come on only girly men would shave their chest. :D
have you ever seen the olympics when guys are swimming
they have no body hair, not because they didnt have any but they got rid of it so that they can swim faster
Re: Shaving The Beard:
not the head, for that i wear a skull cap
but all areas which is not covered by swimming shorts is hair free :)
didn't hurt that much, Chinese Wax specialists are really good, cheap and fast too
u coulda worn a bodysuit of the same material that the headsuit is. dont competitive swimmers do that anyway.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Because there is Ijma on it and its clearly proven from Sunnah and Sahabas. Ijtehad is done when there is difference or something new arise up. Tomorrow you will say lets do iijtehad on Salat.
so there is no room to investigate anything ever?
who came up with this funky rule
So now you change your opinion that its not even Sunnah. Then what is it and please proof from Quran only.:D
I am not changing my POV, I am saying that technically you can not prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is indeed sunnah.
Not all farz are mentioned in the Quran, unless you only believe in Quran and not the other 3 sources?
so beard is a farz then? is that what you are saying now.
I believe in quran and I maintain that the other 'sources' are prone to error and thus not to be taken as 100% accurate and literal.