Re: Shaving The Beard:
Fraudz...on what basis have you made a case closed argument that the beard is a sunnah?...any evidence?...
Also you mention that you dont follow any of the four madhabs so how exactly do you decide right and wrong consdiering your not a scholar and arent able to do your own ijtihad?...
Re: Shaving The Beard:
until irrefutable evidence is provided that it is a farz, I have no reason to consider it any more than a sunnah at best. lack of evidence of it being a farz is evidence in itself. now we can come uo with words liek wajib and sunat e makkida and what nots, but that does not make it a farz in any way shape or form.
now as far as 'madhabs' go, they are mere guidance and interpretations.
as far as ijtehad goes even if i was a scholar I would nto be able to do it, were the doors not closed on ijtehad? I am in full support of opening them because none of the 'madhabs' can properly answer the issues and questions that emerged centures later.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
yeah they should, and they should do a lot of other things. beard is like way down on the priority scale.
imaan is nto pukhta, faraiz are being ignored, but sunnah poori karni zaroori hai.
this thread is about the beard and not about other arkaan and fraiz.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
sure, and beard is not farz.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
fraudiya jee,
why don't you start your own madhab. i'd follow it.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
making fun of sunnat is highest possible iman. case closed.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
fraudiya jee, why don't you start your own madhab. i'd follow it.
Islam :)
do try it.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
making fun of sunnat is highest possible iman. case closed.
so making fun of sunnat is good?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
making fun of sunnat is highest possible iman. case closed.
stating that a sunnah is not a farz is a fact and is not making fun of anything.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Yes they do but they don't trim their moustache...
I haven't seen a single mushrik or non muslim with muslim beard.
It doesn't surprise me that you haven't seen an Amish man, it is customary in their religoin as well. Hence why it is known to some as an Amish beard, not a muslim beard. Other non-Amish men also fancy that fashion.
But the fact is that whatever was the fashion 1400 years ago has nothing to do with the facial hair fasions of today. Did Muhammed really think that it was so darn unique to grow facial hair in that way that it forever would only be a Muslim fashion?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Islam :) do try it.
abay now im confused.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
abay now im confused.
I dont need to start a 'madhab' when I was told by none other than Allah in his book that he had completed the religion for us. I also do nto need to shoehorn myself into some interpretation decades, and centuries later which are being paraded as the only pathways to Islam. sorry no one made any of the 'imams" the thekay daar of islam, nor were any of the ppl compiling hadeeth have any jurisdiction on Allah's words to mankind.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
stating that a sunnah is not a farz is a fact and is not making fun of anything.
i am not talking about you. However its interesting that you love to share your thoughts in regard of what is farz and what is not, yet nothing to say for people who wont even credit it as sunnat and bring so called proofs to declare it as nothing but cultural practise?
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Fraudz...
Ok now do you reject hadith as well?...
Just out of curiousity how did you decide HOW to pray cos the Quran doesnt give methodology...
Also Ijtehad hasnt been closed...how does Islam address issues of cloning etc...by suggesting that ijtehad isnt applicable you are suggesting that Islam cant cope with the modern world which is contrary with what Allahs says when he says Islam is applicable to any time or place...
You reject madhab but you fail to explain what you base your Islam on...
And as for evidence of it being Fard there are plenty of scholars who have suggested it is an obligation...i however see no evidences provided by you to suggest otherwise...
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Scholars declare what is obligation? Did God intend to make his final word so difficult you need generations of scholars to tell you how to groom?
So it never dawns on people that perhaps the tradition of how to pray and other rituals maybe werent supposed to be an integral part of the religion? Islam is like any other religion - it was revealed and then the followers started determining exactly how it is practiced. The difference with Islam is that the interpretation that determined how it is practiced in the first couple of centuries has not changed. I think because people confuse the Quran - the unchanged, unchangeable word of God - with all these other practices that man came up with when designing the religion. The Quran was guaranteed to not change - not the rituals, customs and culture.
I realize that is out of the box for most Muslims, but I have talked with some Muslims with this pov and it makes perfect sense to them.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
i am not talking about you. However its interesting that you love to share your thoughts in regard of what is farz and what is not, yet nothing to say for people who wont even credit it as sunnat and bring so called proofs to declare it as nothing but cultural practise?
you are doing it are you not, should I repeat it for posterity? or you think they will take my word as credible above yours.
what is intresting is that unless someone can paint a comprehensive picture of all sides of an issue in 2 or 3 posts, the person can get challenged on, oh bt you did not say this or that.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Fraudz... Ok now do you reject hadith as well?... Just out of curiousity how did you decide HOW to pray cos the Quran doesnt give methodology... Also Ijtehad hasnt been closed...how does Islam address issues of cloning etc...by suggesting that ijtehad isnt applicable you are suggesting that Islam cant cope with the modern world which is contrary with what Allahs says when he says Islam is applicable to any time or place... You reject madhab but you fail to explain what you base your Islam on... And as for evidence of it being Fard there are plenty of scholars who have suggested it is an obligation...i however see no evidences provided by you to suggest otherwise...
lets go back to the topic of beard shall we, there are plenty of other threads about hadeeth.
so coming back to the topic, I stand by my statement that beard is not Farz, was not Farz, can not be Farz, and was at no point in time a Farz.
PS: do read about how and when doors of ijtehaad were closed.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
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its not farz in Islam. fullstop.
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Who said its farz? I have mentioned few times its wajib, and to leave a wajib is a sin. To grow a beard, it was an order of Prophet s.a.w, and He never shaved, nor did any Sahabas, so its higher than Sunnah. If it was ok to shave, atleast PROPHET s.a.w would have shaved it once or said it once that its ok to shave.
But if you want to follow your own desires in the name of Quran and Sunnah, go ahead.
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PS: Kuffar in that era had beards as well, why would they make fun of it. :)
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If anyone makes fun of beard now, then he is a kafir.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
Going thru this discussion so far, this is the summary understanding I am seeing:1. If you don't grow a beard and cut the mush you're not a muslim2. The reason you need to do this is so that you don't look like others3. If you use your powers of reasoning and argue with what the pro-beard group says then you are not a muslim (now doesn't sound a lot like what Bush said about non patriots?)4. The only way you can debate in this thread is if you are prepared to prove using the same sources and same ideas that the probeardos use, that they are wrong.sounds silly. I have one question for all those claiming we are not to use our rationale - isn't that by itself contradictory? Can you give me your source that says you can tell me that I should not use my rationale?Oh, if I accept that for a second that I should take these things so literally, then I'd say The Prophet said to those in front of him to grow beard. It therefore doent apply to anyone who wasn't there. That is literal.
Re: Shaving The Beard:
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Going thru this discussion so far, this is the summary understanding I am seeing:1. If you don't grow a beard and cut the mush you're not a muslim
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No maybe you need to go back to school, no one said that.
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2. The reason you need to do this is so that you don't look like others
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Its the order of Prophet s.a.w, bas!.
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3. If you use your powers of reasoning and argue with what the pro-beard group says then you are not a muslim (now doesn't sound a lot like what Bush said about non patriots?)
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If you make fun of any Sunnah, then you are a kafir. And please I suggest you go back to school.
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4. The only way you can debate in this thread is if you are prepared to prove using the same sources and same ideas that the probeardos use, that they are wrong.sounds silly.
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In Islam there are 4 sources, Quran, Sunnah, Ijma, Qiyas. Unless if you have a 5th source, bring proof of it from the Quran/Sunnah/Ijma.
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then I'd say The Prophet said to those in front of him to grow beard. It therefore doent apply to anyone who wasn't there. That is literal.
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Prophet s.a.w said to those infront of him to pray, maybe we shouldnt pray, it was only for those people and this reasong for every thing else.:D