Shariat in Pakistan

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Shariat in Pakistan

the problem is we can't stand inbetween
we as a nation have become extremists
some are so called mullahatic extremists and some are so called liberal extremists
that is the reason we are always fighting and fighting

museam can stay in islamic country , because they are the part of school for learning other socities specially distroyed ones etc , but worshiping the idols in the museam will not be allowed and should not be
simple answer

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So destroy all statues of idols (like the rock-cut Budha relic in Afghanistan) correct? Please tell me who was worshipping that statue in Afghanistan at that instance? I know this is going in a tangent to the question, but I am bringing up the point that people can use "shariat" do close down and destroy a lot of stuff that may not even be wrong from a Quranic stand-point.

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when i was writing that sentence , i had the idea that some genius will stand up with this question :D

[quote]

Please tell me who was worshipping that statue in Afghanistan at that instance? I know this is going in a tangent to the question, but I am bringing up the point that people can use "shariat" do close down and destroy a lot of stuff that may not even be wrong from a Quranic stand-point.
[/QUOTE]

bahi
do i have said that taliban had implemented true shariat
if you study them , they had mixed shariat with their tribal culture

just like we in Pakistan have mixed our law both from shariat and british
what ever suit us in what ever situation we use that , similarly they were also doing that and you know the tribal culture of afghanistan is extremist and the result was that their maxied shariat was also converted in to extremisam

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Good so you are catching my drift... now please elaborate on how you go about implementing "true shariat".

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:wsalam:

The answer to all your questions is first we need to educate ourselves to be morally upright and seek the welfare of other muslims in our country. Good developments and policies come with good character. Islamic policies will come with an Islamic character.

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Re: Shariat in Pakistan

Asalam Walaikum, ill try to answer.

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  1. Should the Hudood Ordinance - the law that a rape victim must present 4 witnesses for her words to hold true in court - be kept? (I'm not sure if this was recently ammended, but this law is considered to be part of Shariat by many people in Pakistan). [/QUOTE]

I want to say its not neccessarily part of Shariah, in as much as the technicalities go. I suspect it was created with good intentions, however it doesnt work in real life. Rapists dont rape in public. I would use modern day technology for evidence.

Now i wonder how people in the past solved such issues.

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  1. What would be a woman's dress code? Be specific. (i.e. Burqa, eyes showing/not showing, face showing/not showing, hijab, dupatta, etc). [/QUOTE]

I find that the cultural clothes of the given area will do. All in all the people of said culture will invent something fitting enough for shariah guidelines. Personally, Pakistani clothes have character, and i find that Indians praise Pakistani material and workmanship. Dupatta, shalwar, kameez.

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  1. What would the education system look like - who would get educated? What subjects would be taught and what subjects would be banned? Will girls get educated? What level of education would be mandatory? [/QUOTE]

In the immediate situation i would have public schools implement a minimum requirement for all Pakistanis of 6 years of education: age 6-12. The work would be easy and undemanding, but the intention is to instill civic sense in the public. At the least, the aim should be so that people stop driving in the wrong direction or parking in illegal spots. Also, i would place emphasis on the Humanities, regarding the cultural heterogenity of South/Central Asia, business sense, civic sense, personal finance, history, ettiquettes, logic (introductionary based) and reading/writing.

This is education for the poor and low middle class. Rich people already send their kids to private schools.

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  1. What would be the treatment towards imams who say we should strap up bombs and do suicide bombings in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Iraq? [/QUOTE]

We should follow European and American, as well as Saudi and Irani, Indonesian, Egyptian guidelines: filter the imams. I prefer such individuals come under the hegemony of the central government. These people should be locked up and made to work on license plates. If they dont, they should be put into solitary confinement in a lit room, fed food that other inmates didnt finish eating (to save taxpayer money), interrogated, and psychologically analyzed.

Religion, as it has always been, should be in the domain of the central government. You must be a graduate of some recognized institution that has a license from the state. Whether it is the Hafiz Sahaab who comes to teach your kids Quran or a body like IIU, you need a government certificate.

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  1. Would art museums stay or go? [/QUOTE]

Stay, of course. The only things that should go are items that hurt Paki sentimentalities. Like the Dutch painting of Quranic verses on a naked woman, or any naked woman.

The Taxila/Gandhara items with naked woman may be put under a different wing of the museum; people will understand this wing is reserved for mature audiences.

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  1. Would people be allowed to publish fiction literature? [/QUOTE]

Why not?

Well, on second thought, i would set guidelines to publishing companies that they must follow or have their privileges and enterprises (right to print) taken away. No Satanic Verses please.

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  1. What importance would the sciences get? (ex. medicine, engineering, basic sciences, research). [/QUOTE]

As a developing nation, much. More than the humanities atleast.

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  1. Would women be able to hold jobs? [/QUOTE]

Yes. Working environments should be sectioned in the most efficient and culturally compatible manner.

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  1. How would the state handle the problem of orphans and widows - be specific. [/QUOTE]

Widows should be taught technical skills that they can implement in the real world. Business, sewing, etc. Government is too poor to support them.

Orphans should be lodged in houses for them. It will be, through a government program, advertised requesting individual pakistani families to adopt these children.

You want three children? Have 2 of your own, adopt a third.
One of the best things about Pakistan is that there is a mass force of bored, inteligent stay-at-home women i can implement for free. Agencies would instruct these women (they will volunteer to help) how to take care of orphan children in Orphanages. They can come during the day time, or at any time they please. Human interaction is vital for proper growth.

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  1. What would happen to the poppy fields in NWFP? [/QUOTE]

Government should hire agricultural scientists to figure out if anything else can grow there. Imam Tayymiyyah (im no wahhabi) said you can never tear down one wall, without raising another. You can never really take away one option without givign another.

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  1. Will the cinema houses stay or go? [/QUOTE]

Stay, but movies will follow proper guidelines in the best interest of the Paki people and culture.

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  1. How will the face of Pakistani television change? [/QUOTE]

More educational channels. I would hope to lure channels like Discovery Channel, Travel, History, History International, etc. Maybe a channel for politics like C-SPAN. More News Channels with better quality programming. Less Bull**** shows like family dramas that go in circles and fill the minds of viewers with melodramatic BS.

[QUOTE]

  1. Would Roxen be allowed to perform? (Roxen is a band)

[/QUOTE]

Only certain places. They will be given a license to form a band, and if their lyrics are deemed incompatile with Pakistani culture, they will be disbanded.

However, sister, There can be no Shariah in Pakistan that isnt Culturally compatible Shariah. Meaning, the answers i gave up above take into account Pakistani people's religion AND culture.

If you took music away, and closed down the shops of movies and music, the common people would rebel.
If you forbid honor killings and implemented justice in cases like Mukhtiar Mai's, the rural people will rebel.
If you allow women to go to the Masjids, some idiots will rebel.
If you prohibit cheating in the market places, the businessmen will rebel.
If you place the authority of the state over the authority of Political Parties, FATA tribes, NFWP Tribes, etc, the groups will rebel.

To really under stand Pakistan, you need to realize that their culture and religion are deeply ingrained. For example, their insistence about women staying at home. In my opinion, this topic is given undue importance. Yes women should stay at home, but not to the extent that they cant pray in Masjids. This is a uniquely South Asian problem; just like the permissibility of the bottle is a East European/Turkish problem. Understand that even in a nation like KSA, women pray at masjids. Only in Pakistan are they exclusively forbidden. Also in parts of Somalia, Central East Africa have i heard this.
This is the reult of static thinking. As they say, the Muslim world is stuck in the 18th century.

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first thing which is must if you are trying to implement some thing near to shariat is to implement justice in country

in a country where people don't have true justice , shariat can't be implemented
because two type of extremist will keep on blaming each other and keep on fooling people
1 mullahatic extremist
2 liberal extremist

if we want islamic system in a country we have to strengthen our courts, that is done by sahabas

we normally talk about shariat , to have beared, whatever mullana sahib says should be treated as court verdits etc etc and our many mullahs have made us to think like this

first we have strong courts
then democratic system in which PHD scholar vote have more importance then illetarate
and leader should be expert (PHD) in political science , islamic studies and in someother field
same education system for every person in a country

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Good post. I would like to point out that PhD is no distinction... I was enrolled in a PhD program but eventually dropped out (yeah it's still on my transcript) since I did not see its utility from a personal gratification or benefit-to-society point of view. PhDs are not the most practical people in the world (generally speaking)....

I would rather have it as "learned person" rather than "PhD scholar" ...

Not only strengthen courts, but also focus on multi-disciplinary education ...

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:D ... Its like saying its better to be a jack of all traits and master of none to be a in a leadership position. And actually it has some truth to it but you must be able to hold your own. Its knowing the difference where you too narrowly focus on solutions and where you broadly focus on a plethora of solutions and then master the most appropriate one.

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
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Yes, and that comes from hands-on work (at whatever level from the nitty-gritty to bird's eye) and through life experience... not (necessarily) through a PhD. The foundation must be there however; in the form of a higher education degree.

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Agreed, which is why I am always prone to discrediting present day Islamic scholars. Not that they are speaking wrong from what they know but just that they do not know what they should be knowing besides religious knowledge.

Successful Guppy Meet – Lahore
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had to read that a few times ...
lol ...

Successful Guppy Meet – Lahore
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I continue to applaud those actually answering the questions. Not because I agree with them, necessarily, but because they can follow directions.

The Random Thread
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Peace PyariCgudia

I just want you to know that the Shari'ah can and should be applied in any situation. It is the dynamic that aims towards spiritual and cultural progress, if not, harmony and when implemented correctly it will be a subtle process of realisation. My stance inshaAllah is based on what I have learnt and is irrespective of whether the present regime think of instilling it.

The quote above is only a part of the Hudood Ordinance. It is a Shar'ah penal law that has been given mobility in the Pakistani legal system. i.e. included in to the law. The word Hudood, means ultimate or maximum (punishment), from limit (Hud), it is implied that killing people as a punishment is only applicable when certain conditions have been reached. The strengthening or relaxing of the Hud is dependent not only on the number of witnesses. It is also not fair application if the elements in society have degraded to such a level that the crime of rape for example has become common place. It would mean lot's of people would be killed for the crime which implies more chance of sentencing innocent alleged rapists to their deaths.
However, in a society that looks out for it's people and takes care of orphans and widows and doesn't seek to gain material from other people's demises, that is a society that can rightfully give a rapist the full Hud punishment, because then the identification of a rapist would be easier to determine and to do so in such a protected society is worse than doing the crime in a society that is care-free about protecting itself from such things that can lead to the crime of rape, such as nudity, song and dance, selfishness i.e. not caring for female orhpans or widows, gun and drug crime, prostitution, etc.

The Hudood Ordinance would not be required as it is a part of the Islamic penal system already. The interpretation of it, however, would matter should Shar'iah be implemented today in Pakistan, because the society of Pakistan is not mature enough or ready for that aspect. A higher tenet in the process of implementing Shari'ah would govern how strict to apply any given law.

The dress code I would imagine is something very much driven by trends and trends are influenced by the people in the limelight. It would be oppressive to enforce the Saudi style of dress code overnight to the Pakistani audience, because it is not something that can be made law without arresting half the population. On another level the cultural dress of Pakistan is already very decent compared to the things currently being worn in the Pakistani media. All that will need to be done is an ethic to be produced that would subtly curb trends towards a modest and Islamically decent basis. Shalwar kameez is good, but khimar is better than a dupatta. It would be important to note here that in TV it would be good to see women and men lower their gazes when talking to one another. Something the directors can easily implement, if they so wished! The government on the monitoring level would be in it's right to prevent indecent material being aired. Note: large scale internet filterting systems from pornographic material would also be required in this day and age.

The focus should be on education. In Islam the highest rank in society is that of the scholar, or teacher, or learner. These should be the highest paid state jobs, so the most able people decide to become teachers rather than professionals in other areas. However, they are also needed. Islam stresses the teaching of girls more than boys so of course girls will be educated. The level of mandatory education is dependent again on the strain it would have on the economy. It would be highly encouraged to continue on a path of education even during the professional life, CPD (i.e. continuous professional development is a good model to use for this, the content of which should be catered for to provide an understanding of Islam from the perspective of that persons professional stance). The madrassa style of Qur'an memorisation and the state style of Islamiat should be combined until about year 6 or 7 (ages 11-12). Islamic curricula need to be upgraded to include the knowledge of today's standards, this does not mean that Islam is out of date, it means that our understanding of Islam needs to be made applicable to us in this day. This can happen fairly quickly, within a year to about five years the education system can be potentionally re-vamped.

It may be that some 'Imams' could argue for suicide bombs. The concept of suicide missions to inflict damage actually comes from the Japanese Kamakaze, the first suicide bomber I think was Chinese. The legacy has become a Muslim one when some people were in a state of desperation and those who condone it are only those who are in such a state. Islam will bring the people out of such states of desperation so the people who would still argue for it, would be quelled and prevented from gathering a following. They would not be harmed unless their activities become classed as incitful behaviour. Likewise, the mass killing of innocents will not go without serious inquiry.

Jihad is a hard to understand concept for many Muslims today. It is the loving of Martyrdom, but at the same time it is the despising of suicide. It is the keeping of hope in the times of despair, it is the striving to fight when we have had a lifetime of nurture to be peaceful, but it is also the upholding of piety and good conduct on the battlefield. The battlefield can be taken literally or metaphorically. It is not the killing of innocents or the acceptance of collateral damage!

They might not altogether go, but there might be a very blatant censoring process and gradual one on less obvious indecencies. Instead, art would be wrought through the love of Islam, by adorning the Word of God through voice and Calligraphy.

Debatable! Yes, for the time being, then it would probably be curbed accepting perhaps only those fictional works which have a morally good teaching, but discouraging them nonetheless.

The very highest ... there is a lot of catching up to do! The endeavour would not be to make money, or material gain, but rather to encourage progress of humanity and greater understanding of Islam.

That would be dependent on if they 1) Wanted to and 2) Needed to. In capitalistic regimes women need to work. Islam doesn't require it, so the framework of Shar'ah means that it would need to cater for women especially widows with children, etc. See answer to 2 above to understand the gradual nature of bringing women in to society without being subjected to it.

A fund from the state would be required to deal with this factor. People would be required at the community level to help and provide emotional support. The media would encourage this. This can be effective from day 1.

They may be fenced to keep the drug barons out! Allahu'alim. Perhaps the production of suitable pharma meds produced therefrom?

I think stay, but the culture and content would have to change.

Become modest.

At first it would have to, however, much I would not like it to. Depends on the content and effect it has on the society. We need to make the right people our role models.

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!!! This is such bullcrap! it is a set of rules and laws. If it has draconian measures embedded in it, it will be feared. And so you’re saying “whatever makes one fear it is not Shariat”. So you want go and write a new ‘enlightened’ version then? It is what it is.

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Where is PCG?

Sir Zaid Hamid exposes Criminal minded Altaf Hussain
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Can you care to point out what did you find as bullcrap in it? Please, point out at the line. By calling the whole post as bull crap, I can assume safely that the last line in my post was for people like you -

Take each line and provide a counter argument for it being bullcrap please.