Sharia Law in NWFP

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

The Sharia Law that Taliban Nazis practice and their Fuhrer in Saudi Arabia is totally the opposite of the Sharia Law that Great Muslims such as Saladin practiced.

NWFP will become a state for global facist terrorists doing their jihad

And as such, either Pakistan take it back with its full force or abandon its claim on it

Pakistan only has 2 choices

[Captain1]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

by the way it is not in NWFP but in Malakand Agency

Thats the place where TNSM took rise in 90s too, right?

[Ali_R]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Before we can discuss on this very news, we should know what Shariah Law means and how Islamic It is really is:

Sharia is often referred to as Islamic law, but this is wrong, as only a small part is irrefutably based upon the core Islamic text, the Koran. A correct designation is “Muslim Law” (i.e. the law system of the Muslims), or “Islam-inspired”, “Islam-derived,” or even “the law system of Muslims.”

http://i-cias.com/e.o/t.gif

This is well known to most Muslims, yet Sharia is always referred to as “based upon the Koran”, hence it is the “will of God.”
One sees traces of many non-Muslim juridical systems in the Sharia, such as Old ArabnBedouin law, commercial law from Mecca, agrarian law from Madina, law from the conquered countries, Roman law and Jewish law.

Now lets discuss on this very issue.
I do believe this move (If supported by the Pak Government) is due to the chaos engines working and being successfull at It: The destablization of Pak. There is no way how a Government can tolerate and accept the wishes of Islamic militants. Isn’t that exactly what they wanted?!? Sad…

[Moonshiner]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

The Sharia Law that Taliban Nazis practice and their Fuhrer in Saudi Arabia is totally the opposite of the Sharia Law that Great Muslims such as Saladin practiced.

Really? Why don't you give us some examples of Saladin's Sharia laws from historical records and compare it to the Taliban today?

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Really? Why don't you give us some examples of Saladin's Sharia laws from historical records and compare it to the Taliban today?

Sure

In Mighty Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and then she was sentenced to lashes, this would never happen in Saladin's time

Saladin openly welcomed Jews and Christian to the holy land and respected their culture and religion where as your champions the Taliban would consider that a sacrilege

Women right's in Saladin's time were much more free than in Taliban Nazis

and on and on and on

but don't concern yourself with such matters

I am just curious when you are going to move to Talibanland and live with your fellow Nazis?

[Moonshiner]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

In Mighty Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and then she was sentenced to lashes, this would never happen in Saladin's time

How do you know? Were you there?

[QUOTE]
Saladin openly welcomed Jews and Christian to the holy land and respected their culture and religion where as your champions the Taliban would consider that a sacrilege
[/QUOTE]

And from where did your small brain come to the conclusion that I support the Taliban?

[QUOTE]
Women right's in Saladin's time were much more free than in Taliban Nazis
[/QUOTE]

Where is your source for this conclusion? Do you know how to read?

[QUOTE]
I am just curious when you are going to move to Talibanland and live with your fellow Nazis?
[/quote]

When you raise your IQ from 40 to 80, so never.

[ehtasab]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Sure

In Mighty Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and then she was sentenced to lashes, this would never happen in Saladin's time

What would've Saladin done in that case, thats what Moonshine is asking, what was "Sharia" that Saladin followed.

[quote]
Saladin openly welcomed Jews and Christian to the holy land and respected their culture and religion where as your champions the Taliban would consider that a sacrilege
[/quote]

Jews and Christians were "welcomed" by many Muslim rulers, they only got thrashed when they "conspired" against them or worked against them (one example would be during Prophet PBUH's time when they were asked to leave?)

[Moonshiner]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

What would've Saladin done in that case, thats what Moonshine is asking, what was "Sharia" that Saladin followed.

Mercenary is a bit slow due to his low IQ, you have give him time.

[Captain1]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

NOTE: Moonshiner and Mercenary2k, please refrain from personal attacks.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

What would've Saladin done in that case, thats what Moonshine is asking, what was "Sharia" that Saladin followed.

He obviously would have punished the men who did this crime and not sentenced this women to lashes after the trauma she went through

Jews and Christians were "welcomed" by many Muslim rulers, they only got thrashed when they "conspired" against them or worked against them (one example would be during Prophet PBUH's time when they were asked to leave?)

I am not debating the Muslim rulers but the Taliban Nazis and their stance towards these people

[ehtasab]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

He obviously would have punished the men who did this crime and not sentenced this women to lashes after the trauma she went through

Do you have any particular example which makes you believe that?

[quote]
I am not debating the Muslim rulers but the Taliban Nazis and their stance towards these people
[/quote]

Well, Taliban have shown extremism on many (if not most) occasions but lets not put everything as extreme.

[Captain1]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Thread is now MODERATED and will require mod's approval before they appear here. Thank you Moonshiner and Mercenary2k for making it happen.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

@ehtasab

Do you have any particular example which makes you believe that?

Warriors of God: Richard the Lionheart and Saladin in the Third Crusade: James...

Read this great book on Saladin and Richard the Lionheart.

When Saladin men’s captured Acre from the Christians.

A group of Saladin’s soldiers gangraped a Christian woman.

Saladin immediately executed the men, attended to the woman and gave her safe passage to a city under Crusader rule

@ehtasab

Well, Taliban have shown extremism on many (if not most) occasions but lets not put everything as extreme.

Well I was discussing the Taliban and saying how they have deviated so much from Islam

[Ali_R]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Sure

In Mighty Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and then she was sentenced to lashes, this would never happen in Saladin's time

Saladin openly welcomed Jews and Christian to the holy land and respected their culture and religion where as your champions the Taliban would consider that a sacrilege

Women right's in Saladin's time were much more free than in Taliban Nazis

and on and on and on

but don't concern yourself with such matters

I am just curious when you are going to move to Talibanland and live with your fellow Nazis?

Well Mercenary2k you have a point here, but only due to the reason that you have seen "Kingdom of Heavens" with the good projection of a muslim leader and that in a hollywood production for the first time. And yet you kept It in your mind as best memories of a muslim leader as ever.
Quite fascinating for you (which I can understand) but the laws you are refering to of have been used in past by a lot other muslim leaders as well, but non are ever to be mentioned in hollywood movies neither in western story books.
Nevertheless, It is true that KSA has changed the shariah laws on their behalf, but so have other leaders too.
The great difference was that the Sauds with Abdul Wahhabs major influence gave Shariah a very "conservative touch".

And as we speak of It. Why was there never enough pressure by the US of A + Canada on KSA to adopt democracy instead of ruling the country under monarchic system and that with a Shariah Law? Just to make you understand my worries.
Shariah laws and monarch don't fit together and a monarchic system is an insult on Islam and can never work as combination ever!

[Ali_R]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Captaan Saheeb!!! My post!!!

[mercenary2k]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Well Mercenary2k you have a point here, but only due to the reason that you have seen "Kingdom of Heavens" with the good projection of a muslim leader and that in a hollywood production for the first time. And yet you kept It in your mind as best memories of a muslim leader as ever.

Not really buddy

I have been saying that ever since I joined Gupshup

I have a read a lot of books on the Crusades and I know in great detail about Saladin before Kingdom of Heaven came out

Quite fascinating for you (which I can understand) but the laws you are refering to of have been used in past by a lot other muslim leaders as well, but non are ever to be mentioned in hollywood movies neither in western story books.

And did I use them examples to show how true Sharia law is suppose to be practiced?

Nevertheless, It is true that KSA has changed the shariah laws on their behalf, but so have other leaders too.

thank you for agreeing with me

The great difference was that the Sauds with Abdul Wahhabs major influence gave Shariah a very "conservative touch".

A conservative touch is misleading. When Abdul Wahhab started preaching, Saudi Arabia was under Ottoman rule. Wahhab beleived that Ottomans were not representing the true form of Islam and thus Arabs must practice Islam as it was done during the 7th Century

And as we speak of It. Why was there never enough pressure by the US of A + Canada on KSA to adopt democracy instead of ruling the country under monarchic system and that with a Shariah Law? Just to make you understand my worries.

And when have I said that USA or the West don't have double standards when it comes to these things

Shariah laws and monarch don't fit together and a monarchic system is an insult on Islam and can never work as combination ever!

Totally agree

Even the Caliph was a democratically elected leader chosen by scholars

Democracy is true political representation of Sharia Law but that goes against the very essence of the Taliban and other extremists who have said that Democracy is un-Islamic

So it proves my point yet again

[Crescent]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

Sad that a country founded upon implementing Islamic law is deviating away from it, and "throwing" it away to a small region.

No wonder PAK is in such turmoil.

[Himalaya]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

im not sure exactly where it happened but i think it happend in lower swat. there are a number of different districts involved here which are covered by the malakand division. the malakand division refers to the districtsof chitral, dir, buner, swat, shangla and the malakand agency. the malakand agency is a PATA that strectches from around dargai to thana and includes chakdara, batkhela, and of course malakand town. the malakand agency is a semi-tribal area - i m not sure how it evolved. the only place where the actual fighting took place as i know of is basically in swat district and shangla - in swat the taliban did not try and take control of places south of the main cities mingora/saidu but they have had some influence.

the taliban have only had a slight influence in places such as dir, malakand agency and probably 0 influence in chitral. i dont think there has been an organised movement by the taliban in dir and malakand but there has been some element of trouble in buner. i am not really sure what has gone on within buner but they have tried to close music shops in some areas but to be honest buner is not really seen as a newsworthy region and little is reported about whats going on there. same with dir - although im suremany taliban have feld to dir - to the west of dir is the troubled Bajaaur agency while swat lies to the east. so Dir is a pivotal area.

chitral is the only district within malakand which is not pashtun although the area is conservative and culturally the area is very similar to the pashtuns. the upper portion of chitral is predominantly Ismaili. There appears to be no trouble what-so-ever within chitral and im sure the chitralis would be regretting the trouble caused in some of the pashtun areas as chitral is dependent upon a tourist industry mor heavily reliant on the tourism industry. chitral has had a BBC news porgramme about it broadcast in the UK and and the BBC website and naturally this free promotion could boost chitrals tourism economy further. so any foreign tourist who was impressed by the beauty of chitral and decided to search online about it will probably find travel advisory warnings.

these people want to bruing in shariah law - fair enough they can - but when the tourists decide not to visit swat then i am sure there wil be a change in reaction.

i think if they want shariah law let them have it but any supporter of the shriah movement or anyone from these places should be forced to pay a tax of some sort to enter the non-shariah regions. if they want their own laws fair enough let them have it but at a price! i know it will cause resentment and its probably not a very good solution as ultimately it willbe the poor who suffer but nothing is.

Thats the place where TNSM took rise in 90s too, right?

[Himalaya]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

There is nothing wrong with Shariah law and us muslims should not be forced or felt to be ashamed of it as some backward constitutional law.

The only thing I have is the vast majorirty who support it have no clue what islam is about and just want to punish people because:-

1. they are women with faces uncovered.
   
2. they are men who dont keep a beard - its not a compulsory tokeep a beard is it?
3. for people who have nt prayed - prayer should be between THE SELF and THE CREATOR - not some holy respresentative on earth.
4. to pursue male and females interacting on the road or in public just because they are not related or someone is suspicious
5. to punish people who wear western clothes.
   
6. to force women out of employment - if people want segregated societies then they must realise there will be a need for women to be educated and learn about medicine, nursing, healthcare and to teach islamic or wordly knowledge - in a shariah governed society facilities would be separate for the genders and equal. if women are deprived from education then there will be no-one to teach them and no-one to nurse them as they willal be male and these zealots would rather their women suffer and die then let another man see their face.
7. to distinguish muslim and non-muslim unless people where certain type of religious clothing or symbols voluntarily. the taliban reportedly made any hindus who were left be identifiable - i would hate to wear somethin in england which made me identifiable unless i wanted to.
   
8. to punish non-sunni or non-wahabi muslims which happened in afghanistan.

the problem wityh these people who want shariah within afghanistan and north-west pakistan is that they believe the shariah is all about those 8 of the many more points listed. for me shariah is about:-

developing a countryarea, educatin ones self - education is so important in islam yet those morons who want shariah in north west pakistan would call it kuffar. its about bringing social justice - equality to all not just chopping peopls hands off when you feel like it. from ym experience these people who want shariah law within north-west pakistan belong to this very narrow-minded clique who are self-righteous and think the are better than everyone and are her to act as "messengers". They donot know that in todays modern world Islam willspread by love and sincereity and never by force. They dont realise that eople can never respect their view of shariah law seriously as it can never lead to scientific progress and development - how can a non-muslim person ever want to be a muslim or think shariah law is great when those peope advocating have no knowledge of the world they live in and if these people were left in charge they would take the whole world back a 100 years.

I musy sat Arabs who want shariah law are far more progressive and realise the importance of education and development.

[Captain1]

Re: Sharia Law in NWFP

1. to force women out of employment - if people want segregated societies then they must realise there will be a need for women to be educated and learn about medicine, nursing, healthcare and to teach islamic or wordly knowledge - in a shariah governed society facilities would be separate for the genders and equal. if women are deprived from education then there will be no-one to teach them and no-one to nurse them as they willal be male and these zealots would rather their women suffer and die then let another man see their face.

That is a very good point, but I doubt Taliban or militant really care about their women otherwise they won't be blowing other's women and children in public places or using them as their shield.