Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

[usmanshahid]

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم
[RIGHT]السلام علیکم[/RIGHT]

[RIGHT]پاکستان میں جنرل پرویز کی قیادت میں ان کے دور میں روشن خیالی کے نام پر اسلام کے خلاف قانون نافذ کر کے اور امریکی اور یہودی ایجنڈے کے مطابق اس ملک کو سیکولر اسٹیٹ بنانے کی جو مہم زورو شور سے جاری ہے اس کی اگلی قسط بھی منظر عام پر آگئی جب قومی اسمبلی میں وفاقی وزیر برائے پارلیمانی امور شیر افگن نیازی اور کچھ حکومتی ارکان نے شراب پر سے پابندی ہٹانے کے حق میںدلیلیں لاتے ہوئے کہا کہ[/RIGHT]

شراب پر پابندی لگانے کی وجہ سے ہیروئن اور دوسری منشیات استعمال کرنے والوں کی تعداد میں اضافہ ہوا ہے انھوں نے کہا کہ بعض قومی اسمبلی کے ارکان بھی شراب پیتے ہیں لیکن میں ان کا نام نہیں لوں گا ۔شراب پر پابندی لگا کر لوگوں کو ہیروئن پینے پر مجبور کر دیا گیا پہلے نوجوان ایک بوتل شراب پی کر نشہ کر لیتے تھے اب ہیروئن نے انھیں تباہ کر دیا ہے اور یہ کہ چھوٹی برائی کو بند کر کے بڑی برائی کو فروغ دیا گیا ہے ۔

[RIGHT]شراب جسے ام الخبائث کہا گیا ہے جو تمام برائیوںکو جنم دیتی ہے اسے چھوٹی برائی کہہ کر اسے معاشرے میں عام کرنے کے لئے دیگر نشہ آور چیزوں سے اس کا موازنہ کرنا غیر منطقی ہے نوجوان میں منشیات کا استعمال جس وجہ سے بڑھا اس میں سرِ فہرست غربت اور بے روزگاری جیسے مسائل شامل ہیں نا کہ شراب نہ ملنا ۔ان معاشرتی مسائل کو حل کرنے اورتمام نشہ آور چیزوں پر بھی پابندی لگانے کے بجائے چند وی وی آئی پیزکی سہولت اور طلب کے لئے اس پر سے پابندی ہٹانے کی باتیں کی جارہی ہیں ۔حالانکہ پابندی کے باوجود اس کا استعمال اور فروخت کہیں کھلے اور کہیں چھپے قانون نافذ کرنے والے اداروں کی سرپرستی میں کیا جاتا رہتا ہے۔

[RIGHT]**پرویزی حکومت میں اب تک عوام کی طرف سے جن اسلام مخالف دشمن کاروائیوںپر خدشات کا اظہار کیا جاتا رہا ہے وہ سب آہستہ آہستہ پورے ہوتے نظر آ رہے ہیں عوام ان برائیوں کومعاشرے میں پھیلانے اور فحاشی اور عریانی کا سیلاب ملک میں لانے کی سازشوں پر معمولی احتجاج کر کے کب تک اسی طرح قبول کرتے رہیں گے؟؟ **[/RIGHT]

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[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

Good for them, Musalman zaleel ho raha hain, and Good for ham aur zaleel honge.
Once you leave the Quran, and the rope of Allaah, we know wat Allaah is done to the past nations.

PS I dont know how to read but if the topic is as said, Allaah knows the best.

[Mostar95]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

This has got nothing to do with the decline of muslims! The decline is continuing since the fall abbasiys! But almost all of them were drinkers!

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@Mostar95

This has got nothing to do with the decline of muslims! The decline si continuing since the fall abbasiys! But almost of them were drinker!

Are you talking about the decline in faith, though there was a fall of abbassids, Islam was still the core, as around that time Islam was spreading buddy but still, Muslims i should emphasize the Arabs were growing in terms of technology, scientific research and other fields i would include Art, Music as I agree they lived a lavish life.

*But i agree, its all got to be with faith, kindly provide me with the link for the comment above or any book for my reference. *

[garmihawathandapaani]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

only thing holding Pakistan as a country is the army. 80% of army drinks. you decide - should that be stopped too? problem does not go away by longbeards burying their heads in sand. Nothing wrong making sharab legal.

[Mostar95]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

Arabs were never advancing in S&T! These were other converted muslims who were great scentists and scholars! Arabs have always been as they are today - lazy!

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@Mostar95

Arabs were never advancing in S&T! These were other converted muslims who were great scentists and scholars! Arabs have always been as they are today - lazy!

No way i can challenge you on this. And please provide me the evidence, of post #3, with the above i dont agree with you completely, not after reading complete stuff from Thomas Arnold - Book on Islam.

Secondly, i challenge you and I will be grateful if you can prove me wrong, sole intention is to gain knowledge with the basis being authentic, documented evidence from an acknowledged source.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@garmihawathandapaani

only thing holding Pakistan as a country is the army. 80% of army drinks. you decide - should that be stopped too? problem does not go away by longbeards burying their heads in sand. Nothing wrong making sharab legal.

Brother, i am talking here from an islamic point of view, if Pakistan calls itself a Muslim country then this condition applies, am I against western countries on this aspect no way.

If this is the ration between alcoholic and non-alcoholic, then they have all the right to legalize it, but with conditions applied as aforementioned.

[Mostar95]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

During that time, Islam was spreading, in terms of territorial gains, in eastern europe - thanks to Ottoman Turks! What reference you want? Regarding what?

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

Forget it i got your answer, there is no use. Thanks a lot, will look up myself.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@SlaveofAllaah

Forget it i got your answer, there is no use. Thanks a lot, will look up myself.

I don’t have the book at hand so I can’t give the detailed reference, but I read a similar thing in a book on the Abbasids.

In summary whilst the first 2 rulers of the Abbasids were very devout Muslims who had grown up in a poor rural town, the 3rd ruler had grown up in luxurious palaces as the expected heir and introduced alcohol and musicians to his court in violation of his father’s advice to stay well away from them.

Thereafter, although certain Caliphs would crack down on these, generally drinking alcohol in private or with friends was common among the Abbasids from rulers to the ruled.

I don’t have any information on alcohol amongst the Umayyids.

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At any rate , this talk about alcohol legalisation is scaremongering. Pakistan’s constitution, finalised by Musharraf with the support of the 6-party religious alliance the MMA, retains the Islamic provisions that make it impossible to introduce such legislation.

Even the government, even Musharraf, cannot change the constitution on its own, even assuming that it supports lifting the ban (no evidence has been produced to say that Musharraf intends to lift it, only one of his ministers has suggested it). He needs opposition parties to support constitutional changes -in the past the religious parties backed his changes, but obviously they would not support this.

Even then, under the constitution, any such law could be easily challenged in the courts (which have in many cases opposed the government, for example forcing the government to say where terrorism suspects are being held after abduction, or earlier putting a limit on how long Musharraf would rule by decree before having to hold elections to restore the constitution).

So far, the Islamic provisions in the constitution have meant that Musharraf’s government has passed no laws touching on religious matters without support from certain groups of ulema (the recent womens’ law changes were supported by some ulema not affiliated with the MMA). The support of ulema has made it difficult to challenge such laws.

Even in a land like Pakistan, to suggest that you’ll find even one member of the ulema who would support lifting the ban on alcohol is ridiculous. Without ulema backing, any effort to pass such a law will be ended very quickly.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

I don't have the book at hand so I can't give the detailed reference, but I read a similar thing in a book on the Abbasids.

In summary whilst the first 2 rulers of the Abbasids were very devout Muslims who had grown up in a poor rural town, the 3rd ruler had grown up in luxurious palaces as the expected heir and introduced alcohol and musicians to his court in violation of his father's advice to stay well away from them.

Thereafter, although certain Caliphs would crack down on these, generally drinking alcohol in private or with friends was common among the Abbasids from rulers to the ruled.

I don't have any information on alcohol amongst the Umayyids.

But he was kicked out and sent to spain, and in Granada or colorado he established the kingdom. If i am right, long time i have read also. But let me know more.

Thanks. But what doyou think about legalizing sharab in pakistan.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@SlaveofAllaah

But he was kicked out and sent to spain, and in Granada or colorado he established the kingdom. If i am right, long time i have read also. But let me know more.

Thanks. But what doyou think about legalizing sharab in pakistan.

I edited my post to say why sharaab won’t be legalized in Pakistan.

The person who fled to Spain was the last surviving heir of the Umayyaid dynasty. His descendant established thei own Caliphate there, not recognising the right of the Abbasids to overthrow the Caliph and in response to the Shia Ismaili Caliph establish in North Africa.

No, amongst the Abbasids, the Caliph who introduced alcohol and musicians to the court was Muhammad ibn Mansur al-Mahdi and he ruled for 10 years up to his death. His children and descendents thereof ruled the Abbasid dynasty until its end centuries later.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

Thanks a lot, let me go further but until the 12th century the Arabs were dong fine in most fields, just correct me if i am wrong.
Until again til the 14th century we had the best of scientists, philosophets and theologists but feel apart after that.
Let me know more.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@SlaveofAllaah

Thanks a lot, let me go further but until the 12th century the Arabs were dong fine in most fields, just correct me if i am wrong.
Until again til the 14th century we had the best of scientists, philosophets and theologists but feel apart after that.
Let me know more.

We were doing really well until around 900AD. After that time the Caliph’s authority fell to pieces and the Muslim word consisted of many many states essentially just owing nominal loyalty to the Caliph; the Caliph actually ruled just Baghdad and little else.

Around that time Turkish slave soldiers were used by one devout claimant to Caliphate to win a civil war against his brother the Caliph (who frankly was pretty undevout and ridiculed as a bad Muslim even by his subjects). But the slave soldier involvement undermined the civil service; Turkish slave generals became power brokers, determining who would be Caliph, thus future Caliphs depended on obeying their Turks to remain in power. This gave the Turkish slaves a lot of power and they set up dynasties in different parts of the land, effectively acting as rules and nations in their own right.

Even after that we were doing fine (just about) until 1258, when the Mongols’ complete destruction of the Islamic world’s political, cultural, scientific and religious capital struck a blow from which we never fully recovered. Intellectual stagnation resulted which over centuries reduced us to where we are today.

Some progress was made in other places such as Samarkand, but it was generally downhill from there.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

Agree with you, brother i know this is deviating the topic, I heard mongols burnt thousands of books but after sometime accepted Islam, which in itself is something to ponder about.

[nstar777]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@garmihawathandapaani

only thing holding Pakistan as a country is the army. 80% of army drinks. you decide - should that be stopped too? problem does not go away by longbeards burying their heads in sand. Nothing wrong making sharab legal.

How do you know 80% of the army drinks? Only 3% of the army is officers and even if we assume they all drink and add some hawaldars and subedars the proportionate %age cannot exceed 10%. Please refrain from making stupid and general statements and stop insulting the ordinary God fearing jawan making a modest living for his family.

[khanbabax]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

@garmihawathandapaani

only thing holding Pakistan as a country is the army. 80% of army drinks. you decide - should that be stopped too? problem does not go away by longbeards burying their heads in sand. Nothing wrong making sharab legal.

Any proof?

[Faisal]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

I didn't read the urdu article, but I gather it is with reference to the same debate that occurred in Pakistan's national assembly on Feb 9th. This was discussed in Pak 1 forum. Long story short, a member raised the suggestion, a minister supported it. But the reason for making this suggestion is gravely foolish (allow liquor so ppl can wean off illegal drugs), and considering Pakistan's political landscape its safe to say nothing will happen to abolish prohibition.

You can continue to argue from a theoretical stand-point, of course.

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Sharab being leagalized in Pakistan

You think me living in North America (where I can do anything I want) has any bearing to me being muslim and striving to be mu'min??? Grow up!