Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@chips6

I am sorry for the lives lost.I truly am.But...

Your conditional sorry (followed by a "but") or mine sorry won't bring those lives back who are gone. I wish it was that simple and soothing for the grieving families as well.

@chips6

...walk into a govt hospital and see how they work.I am sure you know that too.I have worked in a pediatric unit on a weekend where I was told there is no oxygen tank (yeah they still use tanks.!) and we will have to wait till Monday.If the kid dies,whose fault is it then..??.

Are you sure you aren't confusing two different things? I have heard that they are on strike for service structure and not for outdate medical equipment. I did not hear any doctor complaing about (still) working with oxygen tanks. I did not hear any doctor asking the government who would be responsible if a kid died because there was no oxygen tank. All I have heard is that they want service structure and that they would stay firm on their demand "at any cost."

Now the dust seems to be settling down gradually and better sense is prevailing. I am not against service structure but I am against refusing treatment to a patient and letting him die because I do not have a service structre. The sanctity of a human life is holier than any goddammit service structure.

[chips6]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Amal

Your conditional sorry (followed by a "but") or mine sorry won't bring those lives back who are gone. I wish it was that simple and soothing for the grieving families as well.

Are you sure you aren't confusing two different things? I have heard that they are on strike for service structure and not for outdate medical equipment. I did not hear any doctor complaing about (still) working with oxygen tanks. I did not hear any doctor asking the government who would be responsible if a kid died because there was no oxygen tank. All I have heard is that they want service structure and that they would stay firm on their demand "at any cost."

Now the dust seems to be settling down gradually and better sense is prevailing. I am not against service structure but I am against refusing treatment to a patient and letting him die because I do not have a service structre. The sanctity of a human life is holier than any goddammit service structure.

Seriously...???
This is what you got out of my reply...strike for oxygen tanks...??..

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

^ They did not strike against oxygen tank. I wish they would have.

Let's make it simple. Will you refuse me treatment if I pay only half of your fee?

[BarbieCue]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@prototype

Some people and their tunnel vision sigh !!!

Chips06:let it be 50 times someone calls them leeches! Kisi kay roz yeh kehnay se "sun rises in the west" sooraj ulta tau nai niklay ga?

For anyone who says they should have done it in a better way to raise their demands should work up on their info first! Their demands date back to last year when your ghunda-e-aala supposedly promised them for service structure and other issues and conveniently forgot about taken over the year despite constant reminders and requests to implement them. This time they started in April again with wearing black bands symbolic of a strike. Kisi ne suna?

Let me remind you of the one option they did have.... to NOT extend their strike to emergency wards too. They started the strike off with the OPDs but that wasn't enough and emergency patients were also refused treatment and they only resumed their duties in emergencies after LHC's orders. May I question this mindset of our educated professionals too like you are questioning the mindset of the tunnel-visioned people?

[diwana]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

Calling doctors leeches is disgusting.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

[QUOTE]
Let me remind you of the one option they did have.... to NOT extend their strike to emergency wards too. They started the strike off with the OPDs but that wasn't enough and emergency patients were also refused treatment and they only resumed their duties in emergencies after LHC's orders. May I question this mindset of our educated professionals too like you are questioning the mindset of the tunnel-visioned people?
[/QUOTE]

the strike in emergency wards began after Punjab government attacked YDA meeting and arrested a few of their leaders, and the buck did not stop there they ransacked some hostels and arrested 3rd and 4th year students as well. Before this act, the emergencies were open and infact in bigger hospitals the doctors had placed a table and chair in the emergency wards and were seeing OPD patients there as well.

[chips6]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Amal

^ They did not strike against oxygen tank. I wish they would have.

Let's make it simple. Will you refuse me treatment if I pay only half of your fee?

Will you call me a leach...??..Will you make it a habit of always paying me half the fees..??..If so,I have the right to refuse you treatment.Not totally ethical,but not illegal either.

My earlier post about oxygen tank was an example referring to the conditions of these tertiary care,teaching hospitals and to make a point that the walking out of young doctors* 'might*' not be sole cause of seven deaths.It is quite amusing what you made out of it.

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

Alas, we are split on the tragedy of a death that occurs because a doctor does not have a service structure.

Let's go back to jungles!

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@chips6

My earlier post about oxygen tank was an example referring to the conditions of these tertiary care,teaching hospitals and to make a point that the walking out of young doctors* 'might*' not be sole cause of seven deaths.It is quite amusing what you made out of it.

Did you ever protest about logistics? If logiscits are such a huge cause of deaths, did you ever think of correcting this problem with same resolve and force as you did for a pay raise?

[BarbieCue]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Ali_Syed

the strike in emergency wards began after Punjab government attacked YDA meeting and arrested a few of their leaders, and the buck did not stop there they ransacked some hostels and arrested 3rd and 4th year students as well. Before this act, the emergencies were open and infact in bigger hospitals the doctors had placed a table and chair in the emergency wards and were seeing OPD patients there as well.

The strike would've still been "on" had they not extended it to emergency wards. The courts would've still taken note of the petitions filed against the government's harassment tactics. The courts orders would've been the same.

So YDA did have a choice to continue the strike but not extend it to emergencies too. Government stooped to a low level and so that justifies YDA doing the same in retaliation. Should I apologise for expecting a little better?

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@chips6

Will you call me a leach...??

I will never, even if you let me die because I cannot afford your fee.

@chips6

...Will you make it a habit of always paying me half the fees..??..If so,I have the right to refuse you treatment.That is my right.

I have spent Rs2.5m on making you what you are today. The institutions that carved a doctor out of you, are my properties. You are a young doctor with a huge amount of time on your side to earn better and better. I am a patient and I can die anytime. You can save my life, but you are not God!

[chips6]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Amal

I will never, even if you let me die because I cannot afford your fee.

I have spent Rs2.5m on making you what you are today. The institutions that carved a doctor out of you, are my properties. You are a young doctor with a huge amount of time on your side to earn better and better. I am a patient and I can die anytime. You can save my life, but you are not God!

Neither doctor is God,nor is the doctor your property.
If the institutions are your property and you have made a doctor what he is,why would you be left to die or deprived of health care..??You own everything...right...??
This is exactly the problem,"doctors are supposed to work for free and do mulk aur qoum ki khidmat,always".Because yeh un ka farz hai...!!

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@chips6

If the institutions are your property and you have made a doctor what he is,why would you be left to die or deprived of health care..??You own everything...right...??

I have a healthcare system that my country can afford or has provided me, which included a working doctor, not a striking one. If you cannot earn much in a government hospital, why don't you simply leave it?

@chips6

This is exactly the problem,"doctors are supposed to work for free and do mulk aur qoum ki khidmat,always".Because yeh un ka farz hai...!!

Free? For god's sake. You are working for free? A BPS-17 doctor's take home is Rs44,000, plus a Rs15,000 professional allowance. You want starting BPS-18, why not a starting BPS-22? If you want to charge me 100,000 as your fee and I pay you half, you say that I have made a habit of paying you half.

By the way, you did not respond to post#149. I am awaiting your response.

[chips6]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Amal

I have a healthcare system that my country can afford or has provided me, which included a working doctor, not a striking one. If you cannot earn much in a government hospital, why don't you simply leave it?

Free? For god's sake. You are working for free? A BPS-17 doctor's take home is Rs44,000, plus a Rs15,000 professional allowance. You want starting BPS-18, why not a starting BPS-22? If you want to charge me 100,000 as your fee and I pay you half, you say that I have made a habit of paying you half.

By the way, you did not respond to post#149. I am awaiting your response.

Because I have to work in a govt hospital which is qualified to train me for my post graduate exam.Not all private hospitals have that privilege.I thought you would know that...!

Aap hee aadhee fees de rahain hain na...next you will want free services too.Because I am a doctor,you made me one and I owe you that.I would be nothing without you and millions like you.Who cares if I have a family of four to feed.
Also you need to get the figures right.No young doctor,fresh graduate is making Rs 60,000/mth and neither are they charging 100,000 as fees.Just 10 years ago they were making Rs8000/mth and it had been this way for years.It was ten years ago when the stipend was raised to Rs 14,000/mth,after ages.

Now don't we love bekaar ki behas,and will beat around the bush.The strike was simply not because they wanted more $$$$.I know that and realize that,you do not.Whatever makes us happy...!!

[prototype]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

How sadly you think you've actually bought humans by paying so-called taxes. No matter your posts make lots of sense now! I wish your love for poor lives wasted showed/shows up when they die due to non availability of medicines,ventilators,electricity in theaters,expired drugs, faulty and damaged instruments in surgical theaters,etc. That would do much more benefit to the humanity if educated people with more knowledge on current scenario stood vivacious the health department's "gods" because according to you doctors are uselessly interested in their pays and service structures selfishly. Why not step ahead and practically dhow your concern for the poor and needy? It's high time nation needs people like you

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@chips6

Because I have to work in a govt hospital which is qualified to train me for my post graduate exam.Not all private hospitals have that privilege.I thought you would know that...!

You mentioned it earlier in your post. If a government facility is so important for you, why patients aren't so lucky? Kheir...leave that.

@chips6

Aap hee aadhee fees de rahain hain na...next you will want free services too.Because I am a doctor,you made me one and I owe you that.I would be nothing without you and millions like you.Who cares if I have a family of four to feed.

Everyone of us owe something back to the society we come from. It's not an obligation, but certainly a way of gratitude. It is your choice if you chose the former and go against your oath. I am not against better working conditions and wages for you. I am not against your being a reasonable breadwinner for your family, but I just want to know how really you bring yourself to let others die so that you could bring up your own family in a better way?

@chips6

Also you need to get the figures right.No young doctor,fresh graduate is making Rs 60,000/mth and neither are they charging 100,000 as fees.Just 10 years ago they were making Rs8000/mth and it had been this way for years.It was ten years ago when the stipend was raised to Rs 14,000/mth,after ages.

Chips6, now don't tell me that you are unaware of a proactive, independent judiciary working in the country. If the government promised you something last year and did not deliver on its promise, then you had a case that was done and dusted in your favour. Finally you have been handed a verdict that brings you back to your duties. It's totally different than what you might have had, had you moved the courts first.

@chips6

Now don't we love bekaar ki behas,and will beat around the bush.The strike was simply not because they wanted more $$$$.I know that and realize that,you do not.Whatever makes us happy...!!

Bekaar ki behas nahi hey baba... tell me na why you did not you come out on roads to draw attention towards the issue of outdated logistics? Aap ne socha kaam chal raha hey to chalney do...but when it came to your wallet, it became a case of by hook or by crook.

[Amal]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@prototype

...I wish your love for poor lives wasted showed/shows up when they die due to non availability of medicines,ventilators,electricity in theaters,expired drugs, faulty and damaged instruments in surgical theaters,etc.

I guess it's aimed at me. Why don't you ask chips6 as to why YDA didn't stage a strike for antiquated logistics? Why only for service structure?

Anyone who thinks that I am against service structure/ pay raise for young doctors, he/she is actually misreading me. But I am definitely against a death that happened because someone wanted to bargain for a pay raise over an ailing human being.

[prototype]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

I wish you had not relied on paid news reports and had stepped for once in govt hospital emergencies last week. Why do you people confuse yda to be all junior and senior doctors working in the hospitals??? If one group quit work due to strikes, there were all senior doctors including professors, assistant professors associate professors and senior registrars working in emergencies continuously. I say that because my husband is an AP surgery in services hospital and my classfellows from medical school are at an SR post now. All have been working double shifts to look.after workload in emergencies and wards continuously. There are even medical officers working underhand helping professor's and seniors as well.please try to find out about the other side of the picture before passing judgements.

[prototype]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

How sadly you think you've actually bought humans by paying so-called taxes. No matter your posts make lots of sense now! I wish your love for poor lives wasted showed/shows up when they die due to non availability of medicines,ventilators,electricity in theaters,expired drugs, faulty and damaged instruments in surgical theaters,etc. That would do much more benefit to the humanity if educated people with more knowledge on current scenario stood vivacious the health department's "gods" because according to you doctors are uselessly interested in their pays and service structures selfishly. Why not step ahead and practically dhow your concern for the poor and needy? It's high time nation needs people like you

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors

@Amal

Free? For god's sake. You are working for free? A BPS-17 doctor's take home is Rs44,000, plus a Rs15,000 professional allowance. You want starting BPS-18, why not a starting BPS-22? If you want to charge me 100,000 as your fee and I pay you half, you say that I have made a habit of paying you half.

By the way, you did not respond to post#149. I am awaiting your response.

Your figures are wrong the salary that the doctors get including all allowances is 44000 not 60000 as per your stats and Punjab governments adds.