Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
^ Yeah...better sense prevails...finally!
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
"**We have decided to immediately rejoin our duties at emergency wards. If we save just one life during the whole night, we will consider it our success,” Y*DA Punjab spokesperson Dr Nasir Bokhari told a media briefing.
***Healthcare crisis: Punjab medics call off strike – partially](Healthcare crisis: Punjab medics call off strike – partially)
but in all this, YDA demands costed 7 precious lives, what about them?
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
but in all this, YDA demands costed 7 precious lives, what about them?
Punjab government's arrogant and hardened attitude is also responsible for these 7 lives. To put the blame solely on the doctors is not right.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Ayaz Amir is a PMLN MNA. He wrote an article on demonization of doctors by Punjab govt and the media.
Young doctors as leading screen villains - Ayaz Amir
Young doctors as leading screen villains
Ayaz AmirFriday, July 06, 2012
Pakistan’s independent media? This is the greatest fiction of all. The media lends itself so easily to manipulation, at the slightest provocation climbing the high hills of sovereignty and then not knowing how to climb down, helping manufacture national security tales as in Memogate and, in the latest of such capers, lending a helping hand to provincial authorities in the demonisation of young doctors.
The young doctors’ strike was not about doctors versus ailing and suffering humanity. In the Islamic Republic suffering humanity is a handy cliché, readily invoked to score a political point and as readily consigned to the upper layers of forgotten memory when the need passes. If anything,** this strike was doctors versus a hidebound bureaucracy**, one of the most ossified bureaucracies in the lands which can claim descent from the British Raj. And its significance went far beyond the agenda of demands presented by the Young Doctors Association (YDA).
What do we want in Pakistan? Either we ditch all our talk of Islamic welfarism or we give serious thought to education and healthcare – for each benighted citizen of this confused republic. Leaving teachers to one side because they were not at issue these past few days, what doctors were demanding was not the moon, or extended plots in defence housing authorities, but a service structure on the lines of what the ossified bureaucracy has and what is taken for granted in the armed forces.
What kind of a strange performance have we been witnessing in the holiest of all provinces, Punjab, over the past four and a half years? The pretence of mighty movement and thunder, the constant flitting from treetop to treetop but, when a final tally is taken, very little of substance or very little that will stand the test of time.** The little money Punjab inherited when election change occurred in 2008 exhausted in a never-ending series of showy schemes** – to name them all is to invite charges of heresy – but not a single step taken in the direction of fundamental education and health reform.
What do we have to show for ourselves? The British were around here for only 98 years, in the areas now constituting the Islamic Republic, 1849-1947. On the pages of history we have been around for 65 years. In their 98 years the British created so much. What have we done in the span of time at our disposal?
Go to Mayo Hospital, or Services Hospital for that matter, and see how young doctors live. Constables of the Punjab Police have comparable living quarters. If we want to keep our doctors this way, fine. But then let’s give a slight break to all our talk of Islam and a welfare state. Yes, doctors should not go on strike. Never. It would also help if they are not driven to desperate measures. But a word of caution: on no account must young doctors earn the reputation for hooliganism lawyers have so ably done.
The British laid the groundwork of empire by building institutions. We can’t build decent flyovers. They come down in two years and then we feel not the slightest compunction in declaring with solemn countenance that the fault was of the dumper which hit one of the pillars – no doubt the first such explanation in the history of construction.
Ah, but we are told, the financial cost of a service structure for doctors would be unbearable. Hand it to the ossified bureaucracy for muddying the issue so skilfully, and to the media for being so easily misled. Let us not talk of the money blown in fancy schemes over the past four years. Take just two projects: the Kalma Chowk flyover and the widening of the Canal Bank Road with its hideous iron railing (whose idea was that?).** The money blown on these schemes would have been more than enough, with change left over, to meet all the demands of the YDA**. But this would have required grace and understanding.
Our grim fate then: condemned to the politics of ad-hoc decision-making. So let us leave it at this. There will be more of the same, the same self-congratulatory oratory. The piquancy of Punjabi is often untranslatable. Aanian-janian – comings and goings – how does one catch the pithy flavour of this phrase? More of the same as the political cycle begins to revolve faster and we move into election season – provided of course all other things remain the same.
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Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
^ same article in urdu.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Punjab government's arrogant and hardened attitude is also responsible for these 7 lives. To put the blame solely on the doctors is not right.
If you logic is right, then killings in Karachi,, where everyday few are killed, and Bhata Khori is considered business as usual is because of Govt of Sindh???
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
^ Every government bears some responsibility for everything happening under its realm. The question is only a matter of how much a government is responsible, and whether it is DIRECTLY responsible for it or not.
When a government takes a gandaasa in its hand, starts demonizing them on the media as the villains, starts taking aggressive revengeful actions, and then refuses to listen to ANY demand of people, then PEOPLE suffer due to this attitude. And such a government is **DIRECTLY **responsible for the mess.
Shahbaz has turned himself into a junooni with his actions. And he has proven to be quite an incompetent chief minister who can't even find a full time health minister for the province. And who would rather waste money on stupid schemes like Sasti Roti, laptops, and yellow cabs.
To quote Ayaz Amir again:
"The little money Punjab inherited when election change occurred in 2008 exhausted in a never-ending series of showy schemes – to name them all is to invite charges of heresy – but not a single step taken in the direction of fundamental education and health reform".
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
^^ So Sindh Govt is not responsible or somewhat responsible for killing of thousands of innocents civilians in last 4 years... but SS is directly responsible for deaths of everyone in Punjab... Good thing about u is, you haven't declared SS responsible for the deaths of those thousands of people in Karachi...
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Very sad news for media puppets and doctors-bashing people but even Lahore High Court passed a judgement in favour of yda/Doctors. Now lets blame how rational and wrong is Pakistan’s judiciary since always! 
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
I have been amazed and actually disgusted to read all sorts of comments on GS & FB etc in the last few weeks about the whole thing.The thing which was most disturbing was the comments from educated people,who kept on bashing doctors and had all sorts of negative remarks.Pakistan is unfortunate enough to have a corrupt government and most likely it is a lost cause,but when people who are educated and professionals (non-medical) have this kind of mind set,I do not see a reason for things to get better.
There were a few comments on this thread which were claimed as 'classic'.I just wanted to add most of them were based on incorrect facts.
I will face unnecessary bashing if I pointed out what was not true,because we all do hate doctors without knowing what they want or without having been in their shoes.
Just my two cents.Happy bashing..!
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
^^ So Sindh Govt is not responsible or somewhat responsible for killing of thousands of innocents civilians in last 4 years... but SS is directly responsible for deaths of everyone in Punjab... Good thing about u is, you haven't declared SS responsible for the deaths of those thousands of people in Karachi...
Bad thing about you is that you like to get personal.
If you think Sindh government is responsible then so be it. It has been discussed umpteen times in different threads. Currently the topic is "Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors".
Point is that Shahbaz's fanatical gandaasa politics is responsible for refusing to give doctors an ear which has resulted in bringing the things to this ugly end.
Now whatever happens in Sindh or Khyber or America or Japan ise another topic deserving a separate discussion. The only reason one would argue about them instead of discussing the current issue would be mask Shahbaz's incompetency and jingoism.
Whatever one may think about Sindh or other places, does not absolve Shahbaz of his hand in this crisis.
Finally ... Don't want to repeat myself. I know who I am talking to.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Shame on Pakistani media. 
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
I have been amazed and actually disgusted to read all sorts of comments on GS & FB etc in the last few weeks about the whole thing.The thing which was most disturbing was the comments from educated people,who kept on bashing doctors and had all sorts of negative remarks.Pakistan is unfortunate enough to have a corrupt government and most likely it is a lost cause,but when people who are educated and professionals (non-medical) have this kind of mind set,I do not see a reason for things to get better. There were a few comments on this thread which were claimed as 'classic'.I just wanted to add most of them were based on incorrect facts. I will face unnecessary bashing if I pointed out what was not true,because we all do hate doctors without knowing what they want or without having been in their shoes.
Just my two cents.Happy bashing..!
People are angry because one or more deaths can be linked directly to negligence by medical staff. I've asked twice in this thread whether the YDA supporters can guarantee that no such death has occurred and my question was conveniently ignored each time. If even one person has died due to the absence of medical staff during the strike, the awaam's ghussa is 100% justified. BOTH the government and the YDA have mishandled the issue, BOTH are responsible for the deaths and the general inconvenience caused to patients.
So why are people being bashed for being angry for a legit reason? THEY are the ones having to pay the price for all this mess. Icing on the cake is all these comments bashing the same people for not supporting the mighty YDA. I, btw, support their demands, but I'm hardly going to claim that YDA has acted in an ethically, morally, humanly right way... neither did the government and the media was also irresponsible. But what exactly did the people do to upset ye, I fail to understand.
You say you've read harsh comments, I've also read quite a few comments from YDA supporters who've stooped to the exact same level as the YDA haters. Apparently, the mazloom state of the bechare doctors is the fault of the zalim people who deserve to be in the state they're in.
You think bechare doctors are bhookay nangay? Try doing a bit of research on the conditions our army men live in. I opened a thread here last year about our amputee soldiers who are neglected by the government, they don't even have enough money for proper medical care, and that thread didn't receive a fraction of attention that this issue did. Now if tomorrow our army men go on strike and refuse to protect our borders and there's "collateral damage", I'd like to see ye support that strike with just as much confidence.
Last time I checked, doctors were worshipped back home. The medical profession was considered a form of ibadat. Doctors are amongst the most highly respected individuals in Pakistan. You tell someone you're a doctor and they'll automatically hold you in high regard, and so they should. Now in the light of the current affairs, some Pakistanis appear to be angry and that justifies the YDA supporters saying that the entire nation is unappreciative, that they deserve to be in the horrible conditions. Bravo!
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
People are angry because one or more deaths can be linked directly to negligence by medical staff. I've asked twice in this thread whether the YDA supporters can guarantee that no such death has occurred and my question was conveniently ignored each time. If even one person has died due to the absence of medical staff during the strike, the awaam's ghussa is 100% justified. BOTH the government and the YDA have mishandled the issue, BOTH are responsible for the deaths and the general inconvenience caused to patients.
So why are people being bashed for being angry for a legit reason? THEY are the ones having to pay the price for all this mess. Icing on the cake is all these comments bashing the same people for not supporting the mighty YDA. I, btw, support their demands, but I'm hardly going to claim that YDA has acted in an ethically, morally, humanly right way... neither did the government and the media was also irresponsible. But what exactly did the people do to upset ye, I fail to understand.
You say you've read harsh comments, I've also read quite a few comments from YDA supporters who've stooped to the exact same level as the YDA haters. Apparently, the mazloom state of the bechare doctors is the fault of the zalim people who deserve to be in the state they're in.
You think bechare doctors are bhookay nangay? Try doing a bit of research on the conditions our army men live in. I opened a thread here last year about our amputee soldiers who are neglected by the government, they don't even have enough money for proper medical care, and that thread didn't receive a fraction of attention that this issue did. Now if tomorrow our army men go on strike and refuse to protect our borders and there's "collateral damage", I'd like to see ye support that strike with just as much confidence.
Last time I checked, doctors were worshipped back home. The medical profession was considered a form of ibadat. Doctors are amongst the most highly respected individuals in Pakistan. You tell someone you're a doctor and they'll automatically hold you in high regard, and so they should. Now in the light of the current affairs, some Pakistanis appear to be angry and that justifies the YDA supporters saying that the entire nation is unappreciative, that they deserve to be in the horrible conditions. Bravo!
I did not say that whatever happened the way it did was perfect and that YDA is 100% right and I also am not supporting the strike with closed eyes.Neither I said that they are bhokkay nangay and becahray and mazloom and I also do not know why you are getting so worked up.I was just talking about the mind set of educated people and that these people should not go ballistic without knowing the facts.I read somewhere that young docs are not forced to work for govt hospitals and that they can go work for private hospitals and make more $$.This is not exactly the case.Not all private hospitals are qualified to train young docs.but that is beyond the scope of discussion going on in this thread.
I am sorry for the lives lost.I truly am.But walk into a govt hospital and see how they work.I am sure you know that too.I have worked in a pediatric unit on a weekend where I was told there is no oxygen tank (yeah they still use tanks.!) and we will have to wait till Monday.If the kid dies,whose fault is it then..??..The seven deaths can be because of the strike but there are a lot more things going on.
I have not researched how army men live so I will not comment on that.But bravo to them for doing the service for our country.
Doctors may be the highly respected people in Pakistan,but they are highly taken for granted as well,by everyone.
I am outta here.As I said ,carry on...:)
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
They are taken for granted only by the government, not the awam.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Bad thing about you is that you like to get personal. If you think Sindh government is responsible then so be it. It has been discussed umpteen times in different threads. Currently the topic is "Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors".
Point is that Shahbaz's fanatical gandaasa politics is responsible for refusing to give doctors an ear which has resulted in bringing the things to this ugly end. Now whatever happens in Sindh or Khyber or America or Japan ise another topic deserving a separate discussion. The only reason one would argue about them instead of discussing the current issue would be mask Shahbaz's incompetency and jingoism. Whatever one may think about Sindh or other places, does not absolve Shahbaz of his hand in this crisis.
Finally ... Don't want to repeat myself. I know who I am talking to.
Yeah Whatever happens in Sindh and other places is just the fate, BTW, just today 8 more killed in Karachi, congrats to MQM, ANP and PPP for these murders...
Was the police action wrong??? was these doctors not given any ultimatum or dead line?? was these doctors strike not effecting the common people of Punjab, Was the suffering of people not enough then these doctors who studied at** highly subsidized fees **and who were in their initial years of service are making 40K+ income were ready to either kill the patient or complicate his disease by simply not attending them??? was these doctors were not aware that their strike can have very bad impact on the health of people??? and finally these so-called doctors aka leaches, weren't they education enough to know the right way to plan such strike and they have to follow what the lowly educated class labor have to do???
I know you will not be able to answer any of above, because you are not here to side the doctors, you are here just to criticize the SS... and i know it because i know who i am talking to.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
They are taken for granted only by the government, not the awam.
How can you or anyone can say that!!!!
A doctor pays around Rs 20,000 per annum as his fee in the Medical college, rest is subsidized by the Govt!!! and it is not that the doctors are alone who study so hard and then they have no career... these leeches are lucky that Govt do not comply them to serve in the govt after the providing them with heavily subsidized study for their profession... They can start their own private practice... just a like a lawyer or a CA or an engineer... why they join Govt Hospitals when they know that there is no service structure, there ain't any high pays, there is no other benefits??? simple question to be asked from these leeches is, why did they join??? the serve people is not the right answer, because when these leeches are posted in some rural areas, they protest and go on strike... this was 3rd or fourth strike by this YDA named organization... and like always they are asking for pay-rise and to not to be transferred in rural areas...
These doctors join the govt hospitals just to make their CVs look good, just like a fresh MBA graduate, who Join Leading consulting firm and is treated like **** in that firm and he tolerate all this till hi builts his career.. have you ever seen them go on strike because they work like 18 hours a day and no week ends and pay which might shy the peon of the same company!!! Same goes for Newly graduated Architects, they dream to join big architect firms in their initial years, they do not worry about the salary or the treatment they receive they just go on and continue their practice until they feel that they are good enough move to better pay-grade... it is in every profession.. doctors are not exception... then why these juniors who only have spent four years in medical college ( CA, AR and other professional degree have equal or more years) who needs this practice like he need to study for four years to built his career is so hell bound about strikes they had a fourth or fifth in just short period of time???
Why these doctors should be treated different then a police officer, who is a graduate, who go through hard training and had to work long hours, who often do not have any week end or annual leave or eid vacations.. because of the duty call??? who more than anything risks his life for the people and who just get paid only something between 25,000 - 40,000 a month???
Why these leeches to be treated by God send messengers??? why they should be respected when they do not respect us??? why should they not be jailed for killing people just for their lust for money and positions???
Now that the doctors are back, can they bring back the dead ones???? yeah bring them back??? these doctors are worried about their jobs hence came back to the hospitals... and as far as my information is concerned, i do not know if any of their demand has been met!!! so they are back on old salary... now can they make up for the misery they caused to already ill and sick people??? can they make for the people who disease may have got complicated? can they make up for the dead ones???
Why these doctors, they so-called educated class, make a plan to have a protest to have their demands heard by the masses??? why they follow the low labor class idea of leaving the work and going on strike??? what is the difference between under-matric labor and graduate doctor??? from where i see it, both are the same... both have stopped working because few of their personal demands are not met!!!
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Just for the Information, these YOUNG, EDUCATED Leeches were on strike in April ( 2/3 months back)… http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/553239-strike-by-the-doctors.html
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Wow...I just read it to see how many times the word 'leeches' was used.5 times...!
Just an FYI,it is 5 years leeches spend in med school and not 4.
Re: Shahbaz Sharif vs Doctors
Some people and their tunnel vision sigh !!!
Chips06:let it be 50 times someone calls them leeches! Kisi kay roz yeh kehnay se "sun rises in the west" sooraj ulta tau nai niklay ga?
For anyone who says they should have done it in a better way to raise their demands should work up on their info first! Their demands date back to last year when your ghunda-e-aala supposedly promised them for service structure and other issues and conveniently forgot about taken over the year despite constant reminders and requests to implement them. This time they started in April again with wearing black bands symbolic of a strike. Kisi ne suna?