Sex with slaves

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

@picoico

I always wondered about the need for the expression “right hand”…it’s use in the Quran seems to refer to captives…as in a kind of prisoner…there is already an Arabic word for slave, so why the need for this expression?

Maybe a "right hand’ means a soul mate :halo:

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

@Debater

I didn’t have pretty good knowledge over the subject of slave girls, so can’t throw anymore light but on this point you made a mistake; Sunnah means the practise of Rasoolullah sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam which we should follow. As you yourself clarified that he sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam kept more than 4 wives, but you know that this is not the Sunnah of our Prophet sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam. Then he sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam went on Me’raaj but this is not his sunnah for us, we can’t go to Me’raaj. Tahajjud prayers were, if I am not wrong, fardh (obligatory) for him (s.a.w), not for us.

And to your qestion that sex with slave girls was only a temporary arrangement, my answer is that you are wrong here; as Allah clearly says in His Book which is valid for you and me also, in 2005 till the last hour:

And those who guard their chastity, (70:29)

إِلَّا عَلَى أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ

Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, (70:30)

فَمَنِ ابْتَغَى وَرَاء ذَلِكَ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ

But those who trespass beyond this are transgressors;- (70:31)

If Allah is not saying that having sexual relations with slave girls is a temporary arrangement then how you can make better laws then Quran.

Well, suppose you are right, then we will see what happens next:

Suppose there is a war between Muslims and Christians in 2006 and as you know in American Army there are women fighters as well, even in Iraq attacks, Saddam Husain’s men did capture some of them and they were showed on TV as well. Now if in such a war/jihad, Muslims defeat Crusaders and capture their women, the status of such women would be the slave girls. The Ameer or Khalifah of Muslims would distribute them along with the booty of war amongst the mujahideen. Now please don’t tell me this is against women rights to capture a woman and make her a slave.
Well this is not true.
The woman made a rebellion to Allah and fought a war against His people. If a woman rebels against the government of United States, or if a woman cheats her husband and has a sexual relationship with another guy, she does receive a punishment from the law court in this civilized world, but if a woman rebels against Allah and fights or supports a fight against the Fighters of Allah and against Islam, why she can’t deserve for a punishment then.
She must be given the status of a slave girl or a captured woman, and she would be given in the custody of only one man or woman.
Please note that if the captured slave is under the custody of a woman which means her master is a woman, **then no other man can have sex with her **because no other man would be the master of her.
But we suppose that the captured American lady is given in the custody of an Afghani Pathan (Taliban). Off course this Mujahid has been given the rights from Allah to sleep with this American lady without marriage. Please note that no other man can sleep with her, though if a Muslim woman is captured by Kuffar (Allah forbid) they don’t follow any rules and mostly the woman is gang raped and tortured. Off course Islam stops ways of all such crimes, in other words Islam is the only protector of women rights.
If sleeping with the slave girl was not allowed then tell me what would happen to this American captured girl?
Who would support her and why, when she was of no use, if she can’t fulfil the sexual urge of any guy, why one would take responsibility to feed her and to provide her with shelter?
Moreover this American captured woman must be so civilized believing in free sex. Don’t you think this American captured lady would spoil so many people by inviting them to have an illegal sex with her?

Off course the treatment of a slave girl (captured one) as prescribed by Islam is just and based upon logic rather the best. If we can’t see anything good in this type of sexual relationship then this is the fault of our comprehension and level of intellect. We should improve our intellectuality in order to understand Quranic Laws. Though for every Muslim, Quran is to be blindly believed and accepted.

So a woman who fights in a war in Iraq and then is captured deserves to be put into a sexual relationship with an Iraqi man as a Punishment?

I hope you know that the Quran also says in these same ayahs nearby that you can’t have relations with a woman against her will. It says to not transgress upon them. Therefore, this slave-master relationship is NOT meant as a punishment. Otherwise why don’t we take male POW’s and distribute them to old widows to have sex with?

Sex as punishment, as you’ve described is RAPE. I hope you realize what you’re saying.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

Who would support her and why, when she was of no use, if she can’t fulfil the sexual urge of any guy, why one would take responsibility to feed her and to provide her with shelter?
Moreover this American captured woman must be so civilized believing in free sex. Don’t you think this American captured lady would spoil so many people by inviting them to have an illegal sex with her?

And this statement just disgusts me to no end. If she can’t fulfill the sexual urges of men…what the hell??? Like is that a woman’s only function is to fulfill sexual urges of men?

And not all American women believe in free sex. I’ll have you know that plenty of sexual crimes take place in the east. You wanna sleep with a little girl underaged or even a little boy, then go to Bankok or somewhere on the Pacific Rim. There is East’s virtues for you.

Jeez, what a disgusting nasty post. And you’re passing THAT off as Islam?

[Debater]

Re: Sex with slaves

@PyariCgudia

Sex as punishment, as you’ve described is RAPE. I hope you realize what you’re saying.

You are right here, I made a mistake, off course the slave girl is not required to fulfil the sexual requirements of the master basically but to serve him.

[Debater]

Re: Sex with slaves

@PyariCgudia

Who would support her and why, when she was of no use, if she can’t fulfil the sexual urge of any guy, why one would take responsibility to feed her and to provide her with shelter?
Moreover this American captured woman must be so civilized believing in free sex. Don’t you think this American captured lady would spoil so many people by inviting them to have an illegal sex with her?

And this statement just disgusts me to no end. If she can’t fulfill the sexual urges of men…what the hell??? Like is that a woman’s only function is to fulfill sexual urges of men?

And not all American women believe in free sex. I’ll have you know that plenty of sexual crimes take place in the east. You wanna sleep with a little girl underaged or even a little boy, then go to Bankok or somewhere on the Pacific Rim. There is East’s virtues for you.

Jeez, what a disgusting nasty post. And you’re passing THAT off as Islam?

What you think a woman with no one to support and provide with shelter can have any security from hungry beasts called men?
And I never meant by my that statement that all Americans are like that, this is not possible. All societies are a mixure of good and bad, some have more good, some have more bad. But you cannot deny that American culture promotes more Rape, more Adultery and more Sexual Assaults.

Sexual Assault in America
Prepared by the American Medical Association
November 6, 1995

“Sexual assault is one of the most serious and fastest growing violent crimes in America. The National Victim Center reports that over 700,000 women are raped or sexually assaulted annually. Of these, 61% are under the age of 18. Less is known about the frequency of rapes perpetrated against men. The American Academy of Pediatrics estimates that about 5% of sexual assaults are perpetrated against male victims. Because many of these attacks occurring daily go unreported and unrecognized, sexual assault can be considered a silent-violent epidemic in the United States today.”

Rape Statistics
Most of these statistics are from an April 23, 1992 report from the
National Victim Center

• In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56,160 rapes each month, and 683,280 rapes each year.
• The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics - 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
• 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime.
• 1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.
• 61% of all rape cases are victims less than 18 years old. 22% are between the ages of 18 and 24.
• 78% of rape victims know the attacker.
• In a survey of college women, 38% reported sexual victimization which met the legal definition of a rape or attempted rape, yet only 1 out of every 25 reported their assault to the police.
• 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
• In a study of college students, 35% of men indicated some likelihood that they would commit a violent rape of a woman who had fended off an advance if they were assured of getting away with it.
• 1 in 12 male students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had committed such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
• 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquaintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.
• Rape has a devastating impact on the mental health of victims. 31% of all victims develop Rape-Related Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (RR-PTSD) sometime in their lifetimes. Based on U.S. Census reports on the number of women in the United States, 1.3 million women currently have RR-PTSD and roughly 211,000 women will develop RR-PTSD each year.
• When compared with non-victims, rape victims have been found to be 8.7 times more likely to attempt suicide.
• Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police. In a survey of victims who did not report rape or attempted rape to the police, the following was found as to why no report was made: 43% thought nothing could be done, 27% felt it was a private matter, 12% were afraid of police response, and 12% felt it was not important enough.
• source: http://www.cityoflakeforest.com/ps/pd/ps_pd2d4.htm

---

In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56,160 rapes each month, and 683,280 rapes each year..source: http://www.kellerpd.com/sexassault.htm

*This report describes violations of the internationally guaranteed human rights of women incarcerated in prisons and jails(2) in the United States of America. The violations include rape and other forms of sexual abuse; the cruel, inhuman and degrading use of restraints on incarcerated women who are pregnant or seriously ill…*Read more:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/document.do?id=D0F5C2222D1AABEA8025690000692FC4

In 1999, there were 3.3 million violent crimes committed against females aged 12 and older. Violent crimes include rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault…Read more: http://www.mchb.hrsa.gov/women2003/pages/page_49.htm

Nearly 200 women serving in the Middle East say they have been sexually assaulted by fellow soldiers in the past 21 months, a victims’ advocacy group said Monday as it criticized the U.S. military for falling short in addressing the problem…Read more: http://www.wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=31262

And another: http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USATODAY/2005/03/28/788515?extID=10032&oliID=213

The white Rape and the black Rape…Read more: http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sociocultural.shtml

Women’s Human Rights
http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/document.do?id=8B57D0C6E816AFC585256E4D007B393C

I hope now you would learn that there is only one nation Champions of all Rapists that is the Precious America.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

That's all well and good except that in Pakistan rape and sexual assaults are so rampant that almost 100 percent of women have been assaulted or harassed, and the rape stats are so high and there are no laws that protect against rape (see hudood laws and their problems), so Pakistanis don't even KNOW what their own stats are.

In America, you would have no problem sending your daughter down the street corner to the drugstore to pick up some medicine. I myself lived in NYC for 3 months on my own, and I walked NYC streets at night and never needed to feel afraid.

In Pakistan, I can't walk at night time.

Hell, its so dangerous, that even MEN can't walk outside.

And the solution to the problem you've addressed is not having single women become sex slaves of men. If men are beasts, as you yourself say they are, then how about teaching those men not to be beasts, and how about having some effective laws in place to make men think twice before they act on their beastly urges?

By the way, are you a beast?

[Debater]

Re: Sex with slaves

@PyariCgudia

That’s all well and good except that in Pakistan rape and sexual assaults are so rampant that almost 100 percent of women have been assaulted or harassed

Do you say that for you or all your family members experienced that in Pakistan or some angel (devil) whispered to you in a dream?

Don’t you believe in evidences, or are you like the Pakis who never change their habits of spreading rumours?

and the rape stats are so high and there are no laws that protect against rape (see hudood laws and their problems), so Pakistanis don’t even KNOW what their own stats are.

Rape stats are high in Pakistan and you are unable to provide us with a single evidence of that.
Well, in this case you are a true Pakistani as you don’t KNOW what our statistics are.

In America, you would have no problem sending your daughter down the street corner to the drugstore to pick up some medicine. I myself lived in NYC for 3 months on my own, and I walked NYC streets at night and never needed to feel afraid.

Then you should thank God you were not from those 1872 x 90 women who were raped in those 3 months, instead of feeling proud.
Well our daughters belong to good families, they don’t walk alone in streets at night.

In Pakistan, I can’t walk at night time.

Did you have joint pain when you were in Pakistan?

Hell, its so dangerous, that even MEN can’t walk outside.

They dance?

And the solution to the problem you’ve addressed is not having single women become sex slaves of men.

Well, you give me the solution of that captured woman who (supposedly) has killed your father in the battle field.
Would you make her the queen of your kingdom?

If men are beasts, as you yourself say they are, then how about teaching those men not to be beasts, and how about having some effective laws in place to make men think twice before they act on their beastly urges?

Those verses I have quoted are the lessons for men not to be like Beasts (typical Americans).

By the way, are you a beast?

In America, even some women are Beasts, read from the above links I have provided, they sexually assault men.
So, I don’t know for what reasons men can’t walk at night in Pakistan, but in America some (affected) men don’t walk in streets because of the women-beasts.

In fact everyone is a beast unless one obeys Allah which you don’t seem to do.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

Debater, funny enough, one of the guppans is doing a presentation on rape stats and I was suggesting to her some resources that do cite rape stats. They’re fuzzy, but rutgers has a report on it. You could find it via a google search. Also, “You” on www.jang.com.pk has done various articles in the past on it, and jang is pretty credible. At least, I believe their journalists are some of the best ones in Pakistan.

I would love to quote you some reliable up to date stats, but the fact is we just don’t know. You can go on what is reported, but with these hudood laws, women take the risk of getting punished if they report their rape. There is minimal awareness of DNA tests and what the procedures are after a rape is done. The first instinct a woman has after a rape is to get herself cleaned up and into safe surroundings. Little does the average Paki female even know what DNA is, let alone how important a DNA test is. And as I was telling this guppan, if you are raped by a higher up, then forget it, that guy will make SURE you don’t get a DNA test done.

None of this has anything to do with Islam. Actually, almost very little that goes on in Pakistan has anything to do with Islam. What else can you expect in a land where the clerics are ingorant, and only interested in boosting their own egos and preserving their pride? When it comes to issues like these, clergy are nowhere near posing serious solutions to these serious problems, unfortunately.

[picoico]

Re: Sex with slaves

[QUOTE]

Islam did not end slavery, but rather made it permissable in the eyes of God. The only culture today where slavery still exists is in Musim societies.

[/QUOTE]

Wrong. The caste system is a form of slavery that still exists in India, and forced prostitution (a plague in Eastern Europe and the far east) is the most widely practiced form of slavery.

Slavery was permissible prior to Islam. Christ himself did not say peep to slavery, implying approval. Slavery is also allowed in Judaism, and Bhuddism is silent on it as well (some Bhuddists were slavers as well).

So-called "Islamic" slavery is limited to the back waters of the Muslim world, namely Mauritania...ironically, a "good" Muslim country because it's one of the few that recognizes Israel.

[Debater]

Re: Sex with slaves

@PyariCgudia

I would love to quote you some reliable up to date stats, but the fact is we just don’t know.

In other words you are saying what you dont KNOW, mashaAllah, such people are called Liars, and you have proven with your statements that you are a Liar whose job is to blame people for something she doesn’t KNOW.

You can go on what is reported

And what you think your beloved Americans report every rape incident?
If you bothered to read the stats I provided to insult your chiefs Americans, you wouldn’t utter such an idiotic remark, read how many Americans report crimes:

In a survey of college women, 38% reported sexual victimization which met the legal definition of a rape or attempted rape, yet only 1 out of every 25 reported their assault to the police.

Please find the meaning of a word ‘Shame’ from some American Dictionary, if you don’t find the meaning, don’t hestitate to consult a desi dictionary.

but with these hudood laws, women take the risk of getting punished if they report their rape.

Now provide us with all the articles which Hudood Laws cover, or I would again call you a Liar. You must prove every claims of yours.

There is minimal awareness of DNA tests and what the procedures are after a rape is done. The first instinct a woman has after a rape is to get herself cleaned up and into safe surroundings. Little does the average Paki female even know what DNA is, let alone how important a DNA test is. And as I was telling this guppan, if you are raped by a higher up, then forget it, that guy will make SURE you don’t get a DNA test done.

Your beloved Americans know so well about DNA testing, then why they as well don’t report all cases.

None of this has anything to do with Islam. Actually, almost very little that goes on in Pakistan has anything to do with Islam.

You are a confused person, you are not sure what to say, at one hand you blame Islam for slavery and at the other you try to save your neck pretending to be a Muslim.
Are Muslims like you?
Who criticise the Quranic laws and taking everything as gospel that their Western masters preach as part of propaganda against Islam.

What else can you expect in a land where the clerics are ingorant, and only interested in boosting their own egos and preserving their pride? When it comes to issues like these, clergy are nowhere near posing serious solutions to these serious problems, unfortunately.

Though we in this thread are seeing you only boosting your ego and preserving your pride. You failed to produce a single documented evidence for your claims that 100% women in Pakistan are facing rape:

That’s all well and good except that in Pakistan rape and sexual assaults are so rampant that almost 100 percent of women have been assaulted or harassed

It would be shameful if you failed to prove the above with a sound evidence. Otherwise I (we) would believe that all your posts are based upon hatred and biasedness against Muslim societies, and it would be wise of you to stop spreading rumours and save your honour (if you have preserved any by now).

As for your claims to condemn Pakistani clergy, you have used your claim in the general sense which means you believe all people are the same, and here you are logically and intellctually wrong and a fool. I would repeat in this case as well that this is your responsibility to prove everything you have commented about the clergy or we would believe that either you are a Christian in the guise of Islam or an Islamically labelled Enemy of Muslims whose full time habbit is to despise Muslims and justifying ideas of her western masters.

[Seminole]

Re: Sex with slaves

[quote]
Liar

Idiotic remark

Confused person

...all your posts are based upon hatred and biasedness

have used your claim in the general sense which means you believe all people are the same, and here you are logically and intellctually wrong and a fool.
[/quote]
Debater, not only can you not debate, you can't even conduct discourse with a shred of respect or intellectual honesty. I suggest you look over these descriptive posts, find out whose posts they *really *most resemble, and go practice your debating skills in cafe.

[geekk]

Re: Sex with slaves

^^ add to that the claim of 100% of women being raped or sexually assaulted in a country. this thread is a joke

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Sex with slaves

raped, sexually assualted or sexually harassed. Yep, I think its 100 percent of women. Ask any woman who has been to Pakistan and who has not stayed hiding in her home out of fear, if she's been bothered by anyone of the opposite sex. Every girl will say yes.

[desidudecool]

Re: Sex with slaves

oh please sexual assault in Pakistan is not any more rampant than any western country ,infact I would say its less so because of Islam.As for slaves being allowed in Islam ,its true that men were allowed to have concubines during the time of Prophet and that practiced continued in the mughal empire too where they kept "kanise" for example Anarkali was just that.

[Fret_Wizard]

Re: Sex with slaves

I agree with PCG. Every woman from Pakistan has a story of sexual assault or sexual harrassment. Those that don't are simply hiding it, out of fear.

[mulz]

Re: Sex with slaves

@PyariCgudia

raped, sexually assualted or sexually harassed. Yep, I think its 100 percent of women. Ask any woman who has been to Pakistan and who has not stayed hiding in her home out of fear, if she’s been bothered by anyone of the opposite sex. Every girl will say yes.

Can I please ask source of your information.. Why do you sound sooo much against Pakistan bibi’jee… girls are more tortured in the west and faaltu India. We give more respect to the woman. than any other country.. I haven’t heard of any mistreatments to womenfolk in Lahore or Pindi. But a girl must observe parda and stay within the limits of her culture…

[mulz]

Re: Sex with slaves

@Fret Wizard

I agree with PCG. Every woman from Pakistan has a story of sexual assault or sexual harrassment. Those that don’t are simply hiding it, out of fear.

Abe Chup! enuf is enuf!! sexual assault or sexual harrassment? thats more in the west.. our society is built on the foundation of respect for woman and we still take pride in that.. atleast girls in pakistan dont go out in mini-skirts or t-shirts(well these days they have started thanks to MTV and likes)

[Fret_Wizard]

Re: Sex with slaves

@mulz

Abe Chup! enuf is enuf!! sexual assault or sexual harrassment? thats more in the west.. our society is built on the foundation of respect for woman and we still take pride in that.. atleast girls in pakistan dont go out in mini-skirts or t-shirts(well these days they have started thanks to MTV and likes)

Are you on crack? Respect for women in Pakistan? Now, that is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. Dude, you need a reality check.

[Soomro]

Re: Sex with slaves

Are you on crack? Respect for women in Pakistan? Now, that is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. Dude, you need a reality check.

Maybe in punjab they don’t but even though punjabis are more than 50%, they still don’t represent “all” of Pakistan!

(well these days they have started thanks to MTV and likes)

Why blame MTV?
I don’t think people can even understand english over there (that is to say the majority of who watch television).

[Curious_One]

Re: Sex with slaves

@LUCIF3R

Only one Quranic verse always baffles me every time I read it.

QURAN – Al-Ahzab 23:5,6

"...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..."

There can’t be any other explanation or reasoning behind this since it is clearly mentioned that Muslim men were allowed to have sexual relations with their slave girls. Am I the only one who is really disturbed by this verse? What do you guys think about it? At one side there is a severe punishment for fornication and adultery but on the other side it is OK to have sex with slave girls. There is no mentioning of marrying slave girls before having sex with them. So it is quite clear that it sex is permissible with them outside marriage. Is it possible that this verse couldn’t be properly translated?

Based on what little knowledge I have the law of having slaves was actually a counter tactic, as kafirs used to take PWO's but if Muslims didn't they would be at a disadvantage, and since everybody has rights and needs it was allowed but there were a lot of rules and regulations that went along with the law of having sex with slave girls.