Re: Sex with slaves
Even though this is not applicable today, in those days owned property was just that - owned property. You could use anything you owned in anyway, even sexually, you already paid for it (just like a wife in some areas:) ). You can do what you wish with a table, it's the same concept. At least attempts were made by different religions to regulate treatment of human property.
Re: Sex with slaves
^^ I understand what you wrote but still it seems very un-Islamic to me. A master can use his slave girl for his sexual appetite just because he has already paid for her and he owns her? Isn’t it similar to prostitution? But mentioning of such thing in Quran is very disturbing and confusing (to me at least).
Re: Sex with slaves
More disturbing than using a slave girl for sex is the slavery itself.
Re: Sex with slaves
Back in those days that was the way it went. The attempts to deal with slavery in the Koran, Bible and the Torah were attempts to regulate treatment of the slaves and institute a practice of ethical treatment without having people feel as though they were being told what to do with their property.
You have to realize a slave was nothing but property. period. Most people did not even assign feelings to slaves, they were slaves and born to slavery because that is what God wanted for their lives. That was how it was justified.
I never said it was right, but the norms/ethics of a society change over time and this was the beginning of that change. Compared to the lot of slaves prior to the Koran (or other religious books), this was a progressive leap.
Have to put a historical perspective (as far as the ethical and societal norms) on what is being taught religously, sometimes.
Re: Sex with slaves
^ So the quran, torah, bible are man made constructs to deal with societal values at that time. Absolutley agree!!
Re: Sex with slaves
Well my take on this subject is if you own something you can do whatever you want. Hell I wont tell you how drive your car. You wanna have sex with your slaves or boy slaves or whatever. May God be with you.
What is the market rate for a young female nordic blonde slave with the following measurements 36-26-36 (i think I got this right)?
I think I am getting the hang of slavery.
Re: Sex with slaves
Thanku…
Re: Sex with slaves
No. I is not similar to prostitution !
I will explain that later. For now, I just want to ask a question, If you may wish to answer.
Strictly according to quran, Do you know the punishment for adultery ( if it is proved by witness and evidence) ?
**Death ! **
Most of the people think it is harsh
Do you think it is harsh, if yes why? if no why not ?
Thank you
Re: Sex with slaves
No I don’t think that the punishment of adultery should be death. Even though adultery is a major sin but it can’t be compared to taking someone’s life.
Re: Sex with slaves
WRONG…punishment for adultery according to Quran is 100 lashes. There is no death penalty as per the Quranic text.
Re: Sex with slaves
^ So why do some Muslim countries stone people to death or cut their heads off for adultery? SA comes to mind. Is that more of a custom?
Re: Sex with slaves
Adultery is when a married person sleeps outside of marriage, the punishment for which is death. You are talking about the ‘zina’ of an unmarried person.
Re: Sex with slaves
Ignorant fools.
Fornication is very different from slavery and comes with a lot of responsibilities.
Islamic slavery is very different from the slavery of the Jews to the Ancient Egyptians or the slavery of Black people at the hands of White people in America or Africa.
Muslims were supposed to treat their slaves justly like family, provide for their needs and not over work them. Just yesterday I was reading a story about a Sahaabi who would buy cheaper clothes for himself and posh expensive ones for his slave…
Those of you “Muslims” who are condeming this practice do ypu realise that you are condeming something which our beloved Prophet :saw: did, and condeming the Prophet :saw: makes you a Kaafir and destined to an eternity in Hell Fire, no two ways about it. The Prophet :saw: even had a son Hadhrat Ibraheem through his slave Mary the Copt.
I know this is a bit hard to handle for you sex starved geeks whereas I don’t see anything wrong with it, it’s allowed and you’re meeting all her other needs unlike with multiple girlfriends or mistress’s (which are very rampant in our western society) who you **** and then throw away like a used condom with a few kids she has to bring up on her own.
Re: Sex with slaves
By defination Adultery means, a married person having sexual relationship with someone other than spouse(or lawful partner ). the punishment ( if witnessed by four men)prescribed, is death by stoning in Quran.
The lashes is for the one who is unmarried.
Anyway I can be wrong, Let us both do research and clear it first
Re: Sex with slaves
Hajar was a slave woman given to Ibrahim by his wife. She bore him a son, Prophet Ismail.
Re: Sex with slaves
Stoning “Rijm” was a Jewish practice and is written in the old scriptures that punishment for adultery is stoning by death.
Why stoning ‘was’ practiced in some muslim countries (Afghanistan last week) can be traced to some confusion created by the Prophet allowing such punishment on two occassions. One was related to a jewish tribe who asked for his judgement and he did so according to their religious edicts and insistence of the rabbis. Second example is rather dubious but has been used as the rationale. A Muslim woman came to the Prophet and confessed to her sin, now tradition goes like this. The Prophet ignored her commenst, but she kept on insisting, he finally had to sentence her. Now, the QUran has dealt with aduktery very clearly and this has been a step by step process. The first Ayath which came down dealt a much milder form of punishment i.e., imprisonment till the women repents or dies. Second Ayath stated punishment should be 100 lashes.
Why SA has a off with their heads policy, I guess its more tribal than anything else. Stoning is not permissable according to some schools of thoughts, but some Fikah insist stoning is permissable.
Re: Sex with slaves
You don’t see anything wrong with it because you deny yourself the ability to have an opinion for the fear of being thrown into hellfire. This makes you a perfect candidate to be a blind follower. Not saying you won’t use ur logic, but that your logic will always be biased to accept the stance of the religion. A form of self-censorship. I’m not just talking about islam or religion but any idealogy that presents a greater threat in exchange for complete obdience to it achieves this.
You simply cannot justify sexual-slavery by comparing to modern secular girlfriends and mistress’s. No one on this forum is justifying that and then complaining about sex slaves. So that point is invalid.
The issue is, that if the primary purpose of marriage in society is to prevent a breakdown of sexual morality and to promote the family structure for optimizing survival of humanity, then why has this door been left open for MEN to take advantage of? This rule does not take care of the slave women’s sexual needs but the mans sexual needs. You all (who are defending this) are making it seem a burden on the man carrying out this “responsibility”. What if the man already has 4 wives and the slave becomes impregnant? What if he has 5 slaves and all become impregnant? Why is marriage dependent on someone becoming impregnant? Has marriage lost any value to it that it has no connection to love, family, spiritual bonds …but of an accident?
What is the difference between this and allowing a woman to have sex-slaves? That is completely forbidden because how can she marry 2 men! But what if the woman is single? She can similarly marry the slave if she becomes pregnant. Do you never think of the feelings of the male slaves? After all, if women did help fight in the war, then they should also have the right to have the spoils of war.
It is pitiful that the man will only marry the slave IF there is a child. That is ridiculous. Otherwise she is just a sex-toy, as long as you don’t impregnate her. What changes if she has a child? She is still the same human being that you were/are using for your pleasure. All this talk about fulfilling the slaves “needs”. What about emotional needs? Do you think she will like being used for sex and your real “wife/ves” are enjoying your husbandly company? How would your wives feel? They cannot even stop you from doing this because their feelings don’t count and have no right to stop your sexual appettite.
Clearly Islam is against sex before marriage and sex outside of marriage; however with this exception that goes contrary to the central tenants of marriage. It simply is not consistent.
828
Re: Sex with slaves
828
Great first post and what a great way to start here on gupshup. Welcome.
Re: Sex with slaves
Quranic text has no mention of death penalty for adulterers.
Sura 17: Al-Isra Ayath 32.
Sura 24: Sura Nur, Ayath 2-3, 4-10
Yusuf Ali translation: Sura Nur, Ayath 2: “The womand the man Guilty of fornification-Flog each of them with a hundred stripes”
Sura Nur Ayath 3: “Let no man guilty of Adultery or fornification marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an unbeliever”
Had the stoning by death or off with their heads been approved, then why would Allah command the followers as in ayath number 3 says that adulterers can only marry adulterers. Meaning, they have to be alive to do so, right?
Misperceptions are mostly linked to traditions, issue here is very clear according to the Quran, I for one cannot believe that the Prophet would act otherwise.
Re: Sex with slaves
would you allow your family member to be sex slave just because you family is captured by more militarliy superior force?