I feel sorry for people who think they need stimulants to get enjoyment out of life...oh what a shallow life it must be...even more sorry for those who lust after alcohol to such an extent that it's a part of their daily existence. That's actually quite sad...
The fact is, it's cultural...not physical. Very few people admit to me they drink alcohol for the taste...it's the culture of drinking, and the temporary effects...which they even admit is not so pleasent when over done.
When asked why, they have no real response...they just do...it's a part of their culture...you tell me what is blind and senseless..
You couldn't have been more wrong. I don't need alcohol to enjoy my life. I enjoy my life everyday, I just juice it up on the weekends to enjoy it a little more. It's all about balance. Everyone who enjoys a drink on the weekend is not a retarded alcoholic who has mental/physical needs to drink.
I don't know about all this culture part. I drink alcohol for the buzz!! for the temperory buzz, it adds spice to my Saturday.
Everything in access is bad. That's including alcohol and religion (as Tariq pointed out).
I feel really bad for people who are missing out on the pleasures of Alcohol. Over what? Blind senseless faith.
That's nice of you, but don't worry about it. Most of us don't have any regrets about it, and I even know many people who've given it up after accepting Islam and they certainly don't have any regrets about it either.
As for the topic, as many have pointed out, serving alcohol is also not right, even if you're not personally taking it. So I would suggest you avoid a job that involves anything to do with alcohol.
Please open a new thread for that question this thread is not about the hurmat of a donkey it is about hurmat of alcohol and that is what we are discussing in this thread.
It seems that the topic-starter, Frozen Fire, already got his answer in the first few posts (he disappeared after that), while some people are continuing with this discussion, perhaps more to pass time, than to have any real intention of being convinced.
By the way, the argument that Quran has not specifically called out alcohol as "haraam" is not a new one. This has been debated countless times. Long story short, those who want to partake in the "pleasures" of alcohol try to convince themselves that Quran did not call it "haraam", so presumably they are ok to consume it. Majority opinion does not support this argument, again based on very solid reasons.
Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)
If Allah has called it "Um-ul-Khubais" (Mother of all evils) as it leads to a lot of other sins, then it is better for a Muslim to abstain from it. Even if Allah (s.w.t) didn't mention it haraam, it is enough of warning for us WHEN HE (THE ALMIGHTY) MENTIONS IT TO BE BAD.
If my boss doesn't specifically calls anything unhallowed but tells me it is bad, then out of respect I shouldn't do that work..
You are only an employee of the resturant or grocery store which sells alcohol. You are not the one selling it as you will not keep the money with you. You are earning through hardwork and honesty and there is no cursing in islam for people to earn an honest living. In islam everything is not as black and white as some people make it to be. Use your common sense.
The problem is that common sense varies from person to person, depending upon one's way of thinking. That is the reason authentic Hadiths are there to guide us in such matters.
@Topic. there is a popular hadith mentioning the qualities of a mo'min that he does justice by "Wishing for others what he wishes for himself".
So if I don't want to be served alcohol, then how would it be easy for me to comfortably serve others what I don't think is good for Human beings. Can we become a source of causing damage to someone's health and yet sleep peacefully at night ?!?
Brother this question you have to ask yourself. If you think you won't be able to sleep peacefully, then better leave such job. (Though I do understand that you would inshaAllah understand the hadith mentioned in the first 3 posts)
Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)
If Allah has called it "Um-ul-Khubais" (Mother of all evils) as it leads to a lot of other sins, then it is better for a Muslim to abstain from it. Even if Allah (s.w.t) didn't mention it haraam, it is enough of warning for us WHEN HE (THE ALMIGHTY) MENTIONS IT TO BE BAD.
If my boss doesn't specifically calls anything unhallowed but tells me it is bad, then out of respect I shouldn't do that work..
Am not sure if Allah said it.
All you need to do is check to see if it is consistent with other things within it as a pass fail criterion.
Another thing you can do is look at the foresight of the gradual release of verses through years of revelation. The foremost verse does not close the subject by saying "you can drink so long as you do not pray in that state" instead for some future purpose the choice of words were simply "do not be drunk in the state of entering prayer" ... this in itself indicates that there is a higher level cogniscience in play. That at some point in the future another more stringent requirement will be issued but at the same it is not going to contradict with what was previously stated.
Brother, my humble apologies for not quoting the details here. It is actually the words of the Prophet (s.a.w) in a hadith. My intentions of saying "As Allah said" was that the prophet (saw) doesn't say anything without the order and permission of Allah (s.w.t). Besides that there is a Quanic verse that supports this view as well.
Following are the details of what I have heard about it (other than what I already mentioned in my previous posts)
[quote]
*In the Quran:
*
"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, And (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination – Of Satan’s handiwork; Eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper." [Al-Qur'ân 5:90]
** In the Hadith:**
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:
a. In Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3371.
** "Alcohol is the mother of all evils and it is the most shameful of evils." **
b. In Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3392
**
"Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity, is prohibited even in a small quantity." **
Thus there is no excuse for a nip or a tot.
[/quote]
Brother, my humble apologies for not quoting the details here. It is actually the words of the Prophet (s.a.w) in a hadith. My intentions of saying "As Allah said" was that the prophet (saw) doesn't say anything without the order and permission of Allah (s.w.t). Besides that there is a Quanic verse that supports this view as well.
Following are the details of what I have heard about it (other than what I already mentioned in my previous posts)
Sorry to move away from the topic a bit.
STP, Yaar going by your logic all sayings of the prophet are actually by Allah Himself. Don't you think thats a kind of shirk. Also I think giving this kind of statements brings Islam more in line of what xtians say about Jesus. Also by believing that all the hadees are actually word of God, and as there are descripencies in some of the hadeeses it can be said that there has been additions/substractions in the word of God just as we say about the rest of the Abrahamic religions.
STP, Yaar going by your logic all sayings of the prophet are actually by Allah Himself. Don't you think thats a kind of shirk. Also I think giving this kind of statements brings Islam more in line of what xtians say about Jesus. Also by believing that all the hadees are actually word of God, and as there are descripencies in some of the hadeeses it can be said that there has been additions/substractions in the word of God just as we say about the rest of the Abrahamic religions.
Just a point to ponder.
Peace Light Bearer
Not really shirk! Saying that Muhammad (SAW) and Muslims believe that Isa (AS) too spoke the Words of God. When classifying things and instructing things they did so out of Divine guidance and inspiration. The words are attributed to God. There are clear parts that are not attributed to God in hadith too.
They are in the following order:
The Word of God
The Divinely Inspired Saying of Muhammad (SAW)
The Saying of The Guided Prophet (SAW)
Each of these have their own authority, but none of them carry no authority. Most cases of explanatory hadith of Qur'anic verses are in the thired category.
The Qudsi hadith are of the second order which is a vision or instruction that becomes implanted for the prophet to say in his own words (SAW). No power of God is attributed to Muhammad (SAW) therefore there is no shirk element here, but those who wish to transgress the limits often find themselves in this area.
^^^Alright stop it.....The starter of this thread got his answer, Now mullah's of this forum stop getting excited and calm down. Like to Quote a famous dialog from the movie "Sholay"....Jahan Larki dekhi nahee, line marna shuru, modified to(for mullahs) Jahan moaka dekha nahee Quran ke verses phekna shuru.
^^^Alright stop it.....The starter of this thread got his answer, Now mullah's of this forum stop getting excited and calm down. Like to Quote a famous dialog from the movie "Sholay"....Jahan Larki dekhi nahee, line marna shuru, modified to(for mullahs) Jahan moaka dekha nahee Quran ke verses phekna shuru.
STP, Yaar going by your logic all sayings of the prophet are actually by Allah Himself. Don't you think thats a kind of shirk. Also I think giving this kind of statements brings Islam more in line of what xtians say about Jesus. Also by believing that all the hadees are actually word of God, and as there are descripencies in some of the hadeeses it can be said that there has been additions/substractions in the word of God just as we say about the rest of the Abrahamic religions.
Just a point to ponder.
I understand your point brother. My intentions were not of shirk, as I do understand that we can't call Quranic verses and Hadiths equal. Of course Quranic verses comes first. If any Hadith does not match a Quranic verse, then that hadith might not be authentic (might be fabricated) as the Prophet (saw) would never say anything that might conflict with the Quran.
JazakAllah khair brother for the reminder. I would be more careful in future. At times I don't remember if what I recall is a hadith or a Quranic verse, in that case I should confirm first before posting it here.
Brother I appreciate your sincerity in this matter. May Allah (s.w.t) guide us all towards the right path and forgive our unintentional mistakes.
Light Bearer is spot on. By adding hadith to scripture or doctrine, Islam is no different than Christianity where the words and commands were not from God and not protected. Just a guessing game as to what is actually God's words.
If the bar for hadith being authentic is that they don't contradict the Quran leaves the door wide open for a semi-educated and semi-literate person making something up that doesn't contradict the Quran. Wouldn't be hard to do. As wonderful as he was, I doubt Muhammad was the only person in history who could do it.
you guys..just chillax.. there's always something that i've learned in religion and it never goes wrong... and that is.. if u have doubt about anything.. simply dont it..
so i wont be serving any sort of alcoholic beverage, in fact im not even working at the restaurant.