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they are being tested…and the Muslims will obviously be tested the most…cuz Allah loves them the most.
quiet simple really. maybe u should go read the Quran and see the reason these things happen and why people are being tested :halo:
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can be proved wrong since earthquake happens in every reggion
regardless of race and religen
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That is my point exactly. As far as I have seen and researched, Islam is only a religion of strict obedience and zero questioning. Really. All I got from this thread was a few Surahs, but nobody gave me a logical answer. Maybe I am being too scientific here, but there has to be some logic in why Indonesia got hit so badly recently. And whoever says that earthquakes and tsunamis are geological events, don’t you think there is Allah’s will in such events? At one point, you say that Allah controls everything and then at another point you tell us that such disasters are geological. Does not make sense to be honest.
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there is no religious answer since religen has nothing to do with geology.
you can move out of earthquake prone areas that is only way to avoid
earthquakes.
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^ you can run, but you cannot hide.
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Game, let me ask you this question, Why do you think it is so that swine eating wine drinking peopel are living in mansions and poor people got hit bu tsunami? I will love to hear your logic before I present mine.
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the game -- Allah tests his people.
What good are wine and mansions, when at the end of it ...all you need is a grave in which you will rest? Khair Allah knows best.Theres a reason to everything, we will one day know what it is or was.
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I am not even proposing a logic or theory about what is happening. I am asking a question because I am extremely confused. Once again, my Muslim brothers and sisters are unable to give me a logical answer and instead have started questioning the motive behind my questioning.
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Game bhai, I am not questioning your motive. I am simply asking if you had try to reason with this dilemma before you posted it here?
Here is my logic, IMHO, I dont know if it was a warning sign or wrath of Allah, all I know is that many people lost their lives due to those earthquakes. It is true, that ALLAH says that not a leaf falls without my knowledge, hence, ALLAH is/was well aware of the "geological event". Why he choose that area? I dont know, it is hikmat/Ilm that only Allah has. Someone posted an ayth above which states that Allah tests everyone and each one of us will be tested differently. Some time Allah tests people so he can wash away their sins and make their admission/entrance to Jannah easier. Besides, you and I dont know if the swine eating and wine drinking muslims are truly happy....they may seem happy on the outside, but are they really happy inside? By inside I mean, zahni sakoon. I can tell you from my own experience that whenever I say my prayers, I feel content and at peace both mentally and physically...and then comes the materialistic part of ....if i do this I can make this much money or i have to be there at such and such time to take care of certain task etc...to me its a mental pressure that is always there.
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If these are tests, muslims sure don't seem to be scoring very well on them. Maybe God formatted a "multiple choice" test, but muslims are only willing (or able) to provide "true or false" answers? Maybe he wants you to study a little harder?
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1- Strict Obedience is correct as Faith is the ultimate part of Islam but zero questioning is incorrect. Ask as many questions but do not over do it as it is guided in Surah Baqarah as well.
2- I thought ayaahs were a better proof of logic for a muslim.
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*Do not over do it? Why not Anwaar bhai? If Muslims were prosperous and were ruling the world, there would be no room left for questions I admit, but I do not see that happening and as a Muslim, I should have the right to question until I am satisfied.
Kaleem bhai, we are always given the word “hikmat” to cover up all such disasters. It happens once, I’ll accept it. It happens twice, I’ll accept it. It happens for many years in succession, I refuse to accept it. Why not London? Why not Ireland? Why not Virginia? Why Indonesia? I just cannot comprehend the hikmat here at all.*
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Stu, tests answers are never supplied, plus last I checked you were not one of the members with the solution key...this coming from some one who believes that a guy died on a cross for his sins...its a bit hollow my friend.
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game: Unfortunately, I am not very good in providing logic and hikmat for that matter.. I will again emphasize on what ALLAH:swt: gives us as His:swt: logic and His:swt: logic seems to make sense to me:
2: 214 "Do you think that you will enter paradise without undergoing such trials as were experienced by the believers before you? They met with adversity and affliction and were so shaken by trials that the Prophet of the time and his followers cried out “When will Allah’s help come?” Then they were comforted with the good tidings, “Yes, Allah’s help is near.”
{Al Baqarah:2}
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Game Shaib, these places may have had other natural disasters on smaller scale. I live in Houston…a few years ago there was a flood that killed a few people and a lot of property was destroyed. There has been train crashes within US, Japan and europe… I am sure you can google these things up to find exact dates. I am not trying to cover it up with hikmat. Here are some Ayath’s which explain the essence of hikmat
قُلِ اللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا لَبِثُوا لَهُ غَيْبُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأرْضِ أَبْصِرْ بِهِ وَأَسْمِعْ مَا لَهُمْ مِنْ دُونِهِ مِنْ وَلِيٍّ وَلا يُشْرِكُ فِي حُكْمِهِ أَحَدًا****018.026 Say: "Allah knows best how long they stayed: with Him is (the knowledge of) the secrets of the heavens and the earth: how clearly He sees, how finely He hears (everything)! They have no protector other than Him; nor does He share His Command with any person whatsoever.
Also read Verses 18.66 to 18.82 and see what lesson is being taught…I am sure it will help you understan, why poor folks were tested this way?
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the game here's the simple answer..
people are rewarded for their good deeds and punished for the bad ones.. here and in the hereafter if you believe in one..
the Muslims of today get punished for they are not adhering to Allah's religion .. they have made up their own versions and divided in sects and are so departed from the original that they might as well not be called Muslims anymore..
the swine eaters on the other hand, in general have shaped their socities on fundamentals closer to Allah's instructions.. they may not truly be there, but they are definitely much better than the so called Mulims in implementing and adhering to Allah's 'way' of life as he intended for us to live in this planet..
thus in general it does appear that they get rewarded and we get punished...
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^ too simplistic and smacking of a terribly ingrained inferiority complex.
the swine eaters, in general have varyingly different morals within the same country, and within the same country are of varying affluence and theres no real correlation. people in utah are poorer but more moral upright and religious than people in manhattan. likewise, across europe, if anything, the more irreligious the country, the more prosperous it is. the more public their immorality in light of Allah's injunctions, the richer the citizens.
the usual gripes with the supposedly general deviation from Allah's injunctions in the Muslim world are more a product of poverty and illiteracy, and wherever there is poverty and illiteracy you'd find similar stuff.
now finally, addressing the game's question. your religion is your safeguard for the hereafter, your actions make this world. we lag behind not because there is something wrong with our religion, inshallah even the poorest practicing Muslim will get his reward in the next world, but if you want to do well here, khali dua'on say kuch nahi hota
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Perhaps its a sign from ALLAH SWT for us to open our eyes and learn something from this tragedy. ALLAH is forgiving and it's evident in every mistake we make everyday without thanking ALLAH forget apologizing and yet he blesses us everyday with if not money, power, fame than a breath.. That alone is a blessing, to wake up healthy, able to make most of what we have.
I attented a Humza Yusef lecture and he said that ALLAH SWT test us thru what he blesses us with n what he doesnt bless us with. The ones blessed with wealth are tested just as well as those who sleep hungry at night because parting with money isnt everyone's cup of tea. If u look at it in a way, those who dont have a bed to sleep in atleast think of God if only to complain and whine whereas the ones passed out on lavish beds are too zonked out to even think of God. I dont know what Allah's maslehat may be, a wake up call perhaps but i know he is forgiving because the tsumani could have been bigger, could have been in a different part of the world and we wouldnt have gotten a chance to even sit here and discuss what his maslehat or how forgiving he actually is.
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RVKiz has the right answer.
For all the religious mumbo jumbo being thrown about, the answer is that God doesn't love you whether you eat pork or whether you go to mecca or whether you ring a ghanti in a mandir. You do that to show your attention to god. YOu need it more than god does. God is not an attention seeking child, he doesn't feel foresaken, he could care less if you eat, drink, marry, remain single, be gay etc etc...as long as you don't hurt others with your actions. God in all religions says that.
Swine eaters (5/6th of humanity) are the most charitable, hardworking, open minded, able to change their lives to changing times (adaptable), forward looking, enjoy life instead of thinking of it as a rest stop, and innovative folks and GOD loves that siht. The remaining 1/6th is waiting for a messiah to save their lazy, backward looking, myopic, exclusionary behinds.
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*Yours is a good post alongwith Pakistaniabroad’s and Ravage’s reply. But why has it been stated that only Muslims will go to heaven and all the kaafirs (non believers, swine eaters etc) won’t?
Devilicious, Allah can test the swine eaters too more often just to open their eyes. Why doesn’t He do that? Why are Muslims ridiculed in the entire world if we are supposed to be His nation above all other nations?*