Segregated workplaces

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

@ravage

“Mathematical gimmick”. Do you regard statistics as a valid branch of science or not?

YES the results WOULD be valid. My comment on high variance were simply because I was at that point being generous, and saying you probably wont get results of 85% in random samples of world opinion, given how polarized I expect it to be. It had nothing to do with the sample size itself, I was commenting on what I expect the resulting percentage to be, unless its a question such as “Is the sky blue”. Regardless, the result of the poll WOULD be valid.

To return to your question. YES. The results would be valid.

You will be laughed at even by the statiscians if make a headline based on your understanding of what valid is.

I am sure you never read this.

Validity (statistics)

In science and statistics, validity has no single agreed definition but generally refers to the extent to which a concept, conclusion or measurement is well-founded and corresponds accurately to the real world. The word “valid” is derived from the Latin validus, meaning strong. Validity of a measurement tool (i.e. test in education) is considered to be the degree to which the tool measures what it claims to measure.

Thank you for giving me a good laugh. Have a nice day.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Complete non-sequiters after non-sequiters. I asked you repeatedly to specify what you meant by valid, and in the end you say its what corresponds to accurately reflect the "real world". presumably in context this would refer to accuracy as far as conveying the population's mean. Which is what is meant in this conversation, which is what is meant when statistics textbooks say that the population's size doesnt influence the sample's statistical quality beyond a certain degree. which was already addressed in the question of precision vs accuracy and my patient elaboration on how given the relatively small range in which the true mean is likely to lie in (82-88%) with a high degree of confidence (95%), the results are perfectly valid, as far as sample size is concerned. The degree to which the tool measures what it claims to measure is specified in the confidence level (95%).

A thermometer measures temperature. Your objection is like saying oh it didnt measure the kinetic energy of every individual molecule and there are billions of molecules so this is measuring what it claims to measure to such a small extent!

Nice job running with your tail between your legs.

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

^LOL at thermometer example.
And you claim you believe on science? :D

You don't seem to stop amusing.

[khoji]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Diwana, I have one quick question. Don't you agree that majority of Pakistanis would be supporting work segregation?

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Diwana, I have one quick question. Don't you agree that majority of Pakistanis would be supporting work segregation?

No one can 'claim' that one way or other.

[khoji]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Well, we all know the general thinking of our people. So we can get some idea if some poll is correct or not. For example, if some poll suggests that Pakistanis support Indian dominance in the region then we can say it is false.
I am trying to understand that based on our own experience, what is so surprising in the result of this finding. That's all.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

^LOL at thermometer example. And you claim you believe on science? :D

You don't seem to stop amusing.

No one can 'claim' that one way or other.

This will clarify things. Can you cite a single national opinion poll, in any country of the world, that you accept as valid. Have you ever come across such a poll, can such a thing exist?

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Well,** we all know the general thinking of our people.** So we can get some idea if some poll is correct or not. For example, if some poll suggests that Pakistanis support Indian dominance in the region then we can say it is false. I am trying to understand that based on our own experience, what is so surprising in the result of this finding. That's all.

This is what one needs to be cautioned. If something not known then cannot be filledd by general perception.

The example you gave about Indian dominance is not valid. Pun intended. :)

Since no one country men would like dominance of other country over them. Indian would have saimilar opposite views one might expect. So example is incorrect to support yor general perception one way or other.

[khoji]

Re: Segregated workplaces

This was just an example to show that we can get some idea whether the result of a certain poll is correct or not.

If this poll says that majority of Pakistanis support work segregation then I would say that based on MY experience the result appears to be true. Now based on YOUR experience would you agree with this result?

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

This was just an example to show that we can get some idea whether the result of a certain poll is correct or not.

If this poll says that majority of Pakistanis support work segregation then I would say that based on MY experience the result appears to be true. Now based on YOUR experience would you agree with this result?

You asked me and I gave you answer. I cannot claim one way or other.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Once again diwana... can you provide an example national opinion poll for any country who's results you dont dismiss

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

@ravage

Once again diwana… can you provide an example national opinion poll for any country who’s results you dont dismiss

You have not got over it?

My friend, polling is one thing, discussing results for the sake of discussing other, believing and making headline another and yet other position is beating it on people’s head to make them believe as valid.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

@diwana

You have not got over it?

My friend, polling is one thing, discussing results for the sake of discussing other, believing and making headline another and yet other position is beating it on people’s head to make them believe as valid.

Its a simple question. Tell us about some polls that you would accept as valid. Thats all you need to tell us. It shouldnt be hard, I gave you a site that lists hundreds of national opinion polls for a country that has a population of 300 million, that has sample sizes that validate my position. Instead of just blowing smoke up everyone’s collective behinds, give us a counterexample of a poll that YOU regard as valid.

You are atleast 20 I hope, you have surely read atleast a few newspapers in your life, and given the prevalence of opinion polls you would have come across a few of those too. Give us a few that you regard as valid. Its not a hard question.

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Its a simple question. Tell us about some polls that you would accept as valid. Thats all you need to tell us. It shouldnt be hard, I gave you a site that lists hundreds of national opinion polls for a country that has a population of 300 million, that has sample sizes that validate my position. Instead of just blowing smoke up everyone's collective behinds, give us a counterexample of a poll that YOU regard as valid.

You are atleast 20 I hope, you have surely read atleast a few newspapers in your life, and given the prevalence of opinion polls you would have come across a few of those too. Give us a few that you regard as valid. Its not a hard question.

Do you know your own example of thermometer is absolutely in MY favor.

Why? Here is how:

You said:

"A thermometer measures temperature. Your objection is like saying oh it didnt measure the kinetic energy of every individual molecule and there are billions of molecules so this is measuring what it claims to measure to such a small extent!"

I never would or did say, measure an individual molecule to measure the temperature,................

........ since if one measures individual molecular energy by thermometer then one will not even get the heat registered by thermometer

........ and it is YOU who want to guage the temperature of a large number of molecles by just measuring kinetic energy of 'few' molecules.

(Remember, it is the collective energy of all those molecules which creates heat enough to be measured by thermometer)

Hence your analogy is in my favor. :)

I have said multiple times and you have not read or understood so many times, that a good statistically designed study/poll does not mean a 'valid study or poll' in terms or applying it to real world.

Can you please once for all get out of the statistics book? Once!

Take a deep breath and walk to get more oxygen please.

If not then at least read the caution which this study conductors mentioned themselves which you have been convenientently IGNORING so far.

How come you are so hell bent on thinkng this study is 'valid' when you do not know what exactly was the process of conducting the study. When a study is conducted a lot of processes are taken either simultaneously or in succession.

Sorry, once you said you would take the results of 2000 individulas study enough to be considered valid for populations of over 6.5 billion, either you are trying to extend this thread, being a troll, or are lacking sufficient brain cells. Not sure which one is true.

I apologize but I already had enough laugh at your expense. Thank you.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

The point of the thermometer analogy was that tools need not measure what they actually claim to measure in order to be considered valid in the real world, refuting your incorrect understanding of what the word valid means. A mercury based thermometer for instance is exposed at best to a subset of the total molecules, measures temperature indirectly (expansion of the mercury as opposed to mean kinetic energy of all the molecules). It is nevertheless considered a valid measurement, based on mathematical ideas of correlation between expansion and temperature. But never mind... this particular paragraph is sufficient:

[quote]

I have said multiple times and you have not read or understood so many times, that a good statistically designed study/poll does not mean a 'valid study or poll' in terms or applying it to real world.

Can you please once for all get out of the statistics book? Once!

[/quote]

So there are no valid sampling based studies or polls in the world. And you cannot ever recall coming across a poll in your life that you regarded as valid. Thank you very much thats all I needed to know. I know with how much seriousness to regard your luddite understanding of statistics. Your issue isnt this poll in particular, but statistics in general. Fine. You should have said so at the start, instead of talking about why this particular study was flawed.

"I dont believe statistics is a legitimate branch of mathematics as far application to the real world". Thats all you needed to say.

[diwana]

Re: Segregated workplaces

The point of the thermometer analogy was that tools need not measure what they actually claim to measure in order to be considered valid in the real world, refuting your incorrect understanding of what the word valid means. A mercury based thermometer for instance is exposed at best to a subset of the total molecules, measures temperature indirectly (expansion of the mercury as opposed to mean kinetic energy of all the molecules). It is nevertheless considered a valid measurement, based on mathematical ideas of correlation between expansion and temperature. But never mind... this particular paragraph is sufficient:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

So there are no valid sampling based studies or polls in the world. And you cannot ever recall coming across a poll in your life that you regarded as valid. Thank you very much thats all I needed to know. I know with how much seriousness to regard your luddite understanding of statistics. Your issue isnt this poll in particular, but statistics in general. Fine. You should have said so at the start, instead of talking about why this particular study was flawed.

"I dont believe statistics is a legitimate branch of mathematics as far application to the real world". Thats all you needed to say.

No that is not what I said. Statistics is important if performed and applied properly.

There is a joke for you. Enjoy.

Father to son: Yo should be ashamed of being at the bottom of class of 25.

Son: Oh that's not so bad, dad!

Father: How so?

Son: Just 'assume' there were 50 in my class.

Read again and ponder. :)

[bigdaddy]

Re: Segregated workplaces

Haven't read all the argument but using samples to make inferential claims on population has been widely used and accepted in all fields of science. Medicine, engineering - you name it. Adequate sample size is however needed and it depends on the maximum error. Size of population is not a factor at all when determining sample size. Any high school student on the subject will tell you that.

Anyone can ofcourse disagree with the results - it does not make the survey or the results invalid. Its not economical to survey all the population sometimes just not possible.

[javedk]

Re: Segregated workplaces

What's interesting is that in both Pakistan and Egypt, the countries with the highest scores, lewd staring at women is very commong. In Egypt, there is a lot of sexual harassment too (I don't know about Pakistan).

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the responses in favour were from women.

My sister-in-law was an auditor for one of the world's biggest accountancy firms in Pakistan. She used to refuse to audit some of that firm's clients because of how the men at the client offices would behave towards her.....

Men are bad if they commit such acts (i.e. lewd staring and sexual harrassment) but in order to prevent such attacks, it is necessary that the workplace be segregated. Saudi has such an arrangement where men go to work and their supporting women(wives, mothers, sisters) stay home- such a simple and Islamic concept. We don't have to copy other countries in having a workplace where both men and women work as there's no merit in that. We should follow the Saudi model.

[rizla86]

Re: Segregated workplaces

javedk, quit talking out your ass. Women work in Saudi too.

[ravage]

Re: Segregated workplaces

No that is not what I said. Statistics is important if performed and applied properly.

Yet you never came across a poll in your life that you consider valid, even though opinion polling relies on statistics for legitimacy. And yet you continue to make claims about population size and regard basic statistics textbooks as incorrect.

[quote]

There is a joke for you. Enjoy.

Father to son: Yo should be ashamed of being at the bottom of class of 25.

Son: Oh that's not so bad, dad!

Father: How so?

Son: Just 'assume' there were 50 in my class.

Read again and ponder. :)
[/QUOTE]

Another example of your (and the students) continuing struggles with statistics. That would not be an example of a random sample.

@bigdaddy

Haven't read all the argument but using samples to make inferential claims on population has been widely used and accepted in all fields of science. Medicine, engineering - you name it. Adequate sample size is however needed and it depends on the maximum error. Size of population is not a factor at all when determining sample size. Any high school student on the subject will tell you that.

Thank you.