refer below…
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Something To Think About and Consider...
If secularism fights the idea of absolute truth (that there is an absolute reality concerning the human condition, whether that reality is Islam, Judaism, atheism, or Christianity it doesn't matter) then secularism fights the idea of truth itself. Because truth is not relative by definition, it is either true or not. And so if secularism, admittedly fights the idea of truth, by promoting the idea that there is a God if you want there to be and there isn't if you don't want there to be (a matrix of beliefs, each walking man living in his own universe of whatever he believes, remember, Neo was living in the matrix, do you remember how fake that was?) then what secularism fights must be the truth. And if the forces of secularism are fighting Islam from east to west, then the truth must be Islam. For, by definition, secularism has no enemy, accept truth. And if the forces of secularism are not bothering to fight with any religion except Islam, then Islam must be the truth. For all other religions claim to be the absolute truth as well, but none of them are the target of the forces of secularism. And the only way secularism can forgive the claim of absolute truth made by anyone, is if that claim is so ridiculous that it can not possibly be taken seriously -such as the claim that God is made from stone, or that the majority of mankind is a lower caste, or that there are three God's in one, or that only one tribe, the tribe of Israel are the "chosen" people, or that fire is God (which can be extinguished by a small child with water). Islam is the only religion privileged to be hated, and fought by the forces which try to eradicate the idea of absolute truth, secularists. And so the biggest conventional proof of Islam's supremacy as the truth, is the hatred it receives from those who want to eradicate the truth:
*TRUTH = ABSOLUTE TRUTH = THE IDEA OF AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH
Theory Practice (real world application, real world politics)
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SECULARISM fighting TRUTH = SECULARISM fighting ISLAM
Thank you, secularism, for your continued hatred towards Islam. Thank you France, thank you England, thank you America; thank you for your continuing support for Islam as the truth you must destroy. But you can not destroy the truth; you can only destroy those who believe in it. The truth is absolute whether you like it or not, whether you’re a secularist or not. This text exists whether you like it or not, and if these few words can not cease to exist, simply because you will them not to, then how can you expect God to cease to exist -the creator and sustainer of all- simply because you will him not to? Secularism, that system of beliefs which attempts to eradicate absolute truth, has just made it clear why it is so imperative for it to eradicate Islam...can you now guess why?
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Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Dear Crescent, are you sure that Islam does not hate or teach to hate all rest of Islam? We can further discuss that different sections in Islam provoke voilence against each other.
There must be some reason in Islam.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
anjjan, the reason is not in Islam, but its followers. Just like there are many christian factions all over the world..some of them violent in nature (See Thaps thread regarding christianity and terrorism). You cannot blame Islam for the violence, same as you cannot blame Hindus as mass murderers (See Gujrat).
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Kaleem is right, and this conflict lies with secularists and those that abide islamic law.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
No, Hindu religion is very much guilty for voilence against Muslims in Gujarat, the same is with a few terrorist organizations in Christianity. Our religions have seeds for inspiring us against other communities. The difference ios only in numbers, and how the general people find reasons, or excuses or justification for voilence.
This is hipocrisy to blame the followers for all faults.
The topic is Secularism vs Islam...... Dear Crescent, I damn care how much Islam is a tolerant religion, as I know the history of India, not Hindus went to attack Muslims, but invaders, Muslims with the blessings of Imams entred India and created all arround terror against civiliance.
And the most blood thirsty invaders or Muslim rulers like Gourry, Gazabnavi, Tughalaq and Aurangzeb are honored heros of Islam to the extent that an Islamic Pakistan issues galantry awards after them.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
^ That is only a theory developed by India. There is no proof of them invading.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
^^ so u also believe the gujarat massacre never happened?? running away from facts of history is as good as cowardice.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Listen invasion of other countries happened all over the globe in those times. How the hell do you think Roman Empire expanded? How do you think the british empire expanded? So quit your belly aching about Islam and learn to live with the history.
Islam was never spread on the bases of violence, no matter how hard indians try to change the history. If all of those people you listed were so blood thirsty than why did they not finish the job?
Desibanda, why dont you explain to us why did a massacre of Gujrat take place under the guideline of oh so peace loving hindus?
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Dear Crescent, Aurangzeb killed his brother, dethroned and jailed his father. Your Islamic nation issues gallantry award after the name of this Islamic ruler, what massage your nation wants to give to your countrymen.
(Let us accept that this is also a Hindu history!)
We must not judge Islam by the act of Muslims. And if we study the acts of Muslims, you immidiately blame us of being Islam haters.
What is your actual stand?
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Re Hindu voilence in Gujarat, I as a Hindu feel guilty for what some of our people did in Gujarat. And there are many who share these feelings. We do not offer excuses, or try to imagine designs.
Is there a single Muslim who feel guilty for 9/11? (The list of voilence is very long.)
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Of course it is. Will you like to start from practice of satti or brahmin and shuuders? Where will you like to start?
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Crescent...
Your posting made me dizzy.
Your belief is that secularism is a system that fights against truth?
Is my opinion that secularism is a system that promotes choice.
One is free to follow or not follow religious dogma.
Truth is God himself granted mankind choice.
You choose to believe that secularism fights truth. That is your choice.
I choose to believe that God invented secularism.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about…
Your basic premise is false..leading to confused and idiotic musings. It is FAITH that suggests Islam, Judaism, Christianity can be TRUTH, Not any FACT. Truth=statements proven by Fact not Faith. It is also individual faith that says buddhism, sikhism and hinduism are also the absolute reality.
Also, secularlism doesn’t attack the religion…it just doesn’t hold one religion in higher authority than another. In the absence of abolute reality that you have so erroneously assigned to abrahamic faiths and others to eastern faiths, secularism is the closest thing to absolute reality..ironic yes!!
^ WHAT? That makes no sense in any country. Secualrism doesn’t fight the truth..in absence of any unioversally accepted absolute truth..particularly the unproveable supposed truth that is Islam, secularism levels the playing field for competing absolute truths. natural selection for supposed absolute truths, if you will.
Prove to me god is not in a stone…to prove this you will quote the quran and I will say that “according to muslims” not to the rest of the world…so we come back to square one..“faith not FACT” .Muslims like you, with a chip on their shoulder in trying to establish some illfounded longlost fleeting superiority and frustration at it’s anachronistic designs while the rest of the world who is moving far far ahead.
*TRUTH = ABSOLUTE TRUTH = THE IDEA OF AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH
Theory Practice (real world application, real world politics)
====== ====================================
SECULARISM fighting TRUTH = SECULARISM fighting ISLAM
Thank you secularism that allows people of all backgrounds to live, work and pray as to how they want without worrying about getting persecuted for their beliefs. Thank you secularism for allowing muslim women to gain equal footing in their lives, in theri professions and in their ambitions…thank you secualrism and particularly America for being the beacon of hope for millions of muslims and non muslims to make themsleves and their loved one better human beings..surely this is what Allah wants. 
Kaleem, violence has been an indellible part of the spread of abrahamic faiths…ask the parsis, the armenians, the hindus, the sikhs etc…to deny that is like denying that there are other paths to god than just one. 
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about…
Thats just not true at all. The roots and fundamentals of your wishy washy secularism are 100% religious and Christianity based. Secularism did not come about as some kind benevolent ideal to treat all religious ideas as equal nor did it stop any persecution. Infact in reality it spawned generations of its own persecution. Secularism was created by Luther who did not like the all-powerful Roman Catholic Church so he broke off and invented the Church of England or Protestant faith. Then went on to make a distinction, i.e the separation between the Christian State and the Christian Church. To deal with the ‘worldly’ (secular) and the ‘spiritual’ respectfully. This is secularism and it didn’t recognise the equality of all different faiths then and it certainly doesn’t now either. It subscribed to one best way. Secular ideas are essentially Protestent Christian values and beliefs. It might different faces different names and different labels but its the same old story being hashed out and swallowed.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about…
No principles of secularism also exist in eastern faiths..thus making it more universal than any abrahamic faith out there and closer to absolute reality as Pundit Crescent would have it.
^ Luther, invented the church of England? I always thought it was the Ole Henry? 
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
henry just adopted protestantism (what he called the church of england) for when it suited him.
If you talk about universilty then every belief in the abrahamic faith is universal because it corresponds to beliefs in other faiths at one point or another. But the point was that according to you secularism doesn't believe in any faith being greater or the absolute right way. Thats simply not true. Seculrism by default is subject to Christian ideals and values.
The idea of democracy at least is much more pluralistic than secularism.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about…
God invented Secularism that is a contradiction in term, Secualrism means live your life with no reference to god what soever!
As for secularism it is a total wash out and failure of a system just look at it total confusion and chaos for example you are a xstain you are same level as a devil worshipper according to secularism!
Take a subject like homosexuality is it right or wrong you get half saying its right half saying its wrong, is killing criminals right or wrong again confusion after confusion and this system they trying to propogate to the world a system where no one is right and no one is wrong what a complete shambles there is always a right and a wrong way to say nobody is right and nobody is wrong is a lie!
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Secularism - religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education is a universal idea, not limited to Christianity. Most of the (non-Muslim) world follows these principles.
Secularism is "subject to Christian ideals and values" only in that Islam has not gone through a reformation. It's a shame that many Muslims consider freedom of and from religion as western (satanic) ideals. It will only delay the Reformation and Enlightenment within Islam.
Re: Secularism vs Islam - Something to think about...
Look at the muslim world the puppet rulers have forced a system which its population rejects i.e secularist thoughts capitalism and democrohypocrisy!
Just shows how easily if offered islam an idea the muslim populations accept how easy it would be to implement solution equals remove puppet rulers and there corrupt systems and replace it with islam something the west fears as can be seen by thier islamaphobic comments.