Re: Secular Pakistan
we have dozens of thread on this topic with some fourm polls its a never ending discusion.
Hey Muku I am going to give u some home work do some study and come back later.
Why was All Ulmae Islam including JI was against the Quaid under the banner of Al Ehrar and was against the creation of Pakistan? and why they the almost Ulmae Islam was sitting in the lap of secular congress?
Re: Secular Pakistan
we have dozens of thread on this topic with some fourm polls its a never ending discusion. Hey Muku I am going to give u some home work do some study and come back later.
Why was All Ulmae Islam including JI was against the Quaid under the banner of Al Ehrar and was against the creation of Pakistan? and why they the almost Ulmae Islam was sitting in the lap of secular congress?
O yes than why was Molana Usmani was with Jinnah and also many pirs were with Jinnah including Pir Mehr Ali Shah why Jinnah asked Molana Usmani to do first flag waving ceremony sir if some Ulemas were against Jinnah but many of them were with Jinnah so don't distort fact
Secularism is Kufr and it will fail it has failed every where Islam has its own political social and economic system and any one who will go against it will face a sever backlash so promote Islam not kufr
Disgusting
Re: Secular Pakistan
[quote="sharaabee, post:4, topic:243535"]
Disgusting/QUOTE
O really whats disgusting?
Re: Secular Pakistan
Secularism is Kufr and it will fail it has failed every where Islam has its own political social and economic system and any one who will go against it will face a sever backlash so promote Islam not kufr
Where has secularism failed? and where has islamic political ,social and economic system has succeeded?
Did you pull those facts out of your bunny hat again or actually read it somewhere?
Another homework for you, who called jinnah as kafir-e-azam?
Re: Secular Pakistan
Where has secularism failed? and where has islamic political ,social and economic system has succeeded?
Did you pull those facts out of your bunny hat again or actually read it somewhere?
Another homework for you, who called jinnah as kafir-e-azam?
Sir none of the major scholars called Jinah Kafir e Azam first Secularism has failed every where especially in Muslim Countries and it can't work in Muslim countries
Re: Secular Pakistan
Religion had never been, nor will it be a binding factor in any society. Both the world wars were fought between Christian countries. Muslims, after the Prophet (BPUH), are continually in state of war all over the world with each other, even during Caliphate. (Though in Pakistan we are taught a distorted forms of history, sociology and religion). We have seen several countries craved out after breakup of Turkish empire (Caliphate). East and west Pakistan had Muslims in both side and we see that everywhere in Pakistan Muslims are killing Muslims. Being secular will not only help us gaining respect internationally, but also boost confidence within different societies of our nation. Today, most of us wanted to identify themselves with their respective community, none (Except in media) wanted to be called Pakistani. We have to agree that Islam has failed to unite us and religion should be a personal issue without intervention of state. I was never convinced with our Quaid (though I am admiror of his personality) to carve a nation on the grounds of religion. Nations needed good leaders and vision other than religion and we never had any after Qauid-e-azam.
Re: Secular Pakistan
Sir none of the major scholars called Jinah Kafir e Azam first Secularism has failed every where especially in Muslim Countries and it can't work in Muslim countries
dont give me your one liner fatwas. give me specific examples.
Maulana Syed Atta Ullah Shah Bokhar is not major scholar for you, may be you are bigger scholar than him!! i guess no major scholar called pakistan as napakistan as well.
Re: Secular Pakistan
Religion had never been, nor will it be a binding factor in any society. Both the world wars were fought between Christian countries. Muslims, after the Prophet (BPUH), are continually in state of war all over the world with each other, even during Caliphate. (Though in Pakistan we are taught a distorted forms of history, sociology and religion). We have seen several countries craved out after breakup of Turkish empire (Caliphate). East and west Pakistan had Muslims in both side and we see that everywhere in Pakistan Muslims are killing Muslims. Being secular will not only help us gaining respect internationally, but also boost confidence within different societies of our nation. Today, most of us wanted to identify themselves with their respective community, none (Except in media) wanted to be called Pakistani. We have to agree that Islam has failed to unite us and religion should be a personal issue without intervention of state. I was never convinced with our Quaid (though I am admiror of his personality) to carve a nation on the grounds of religion. Nations needed good leaders and vision other than religion and we never had any after Qauid-e-azam.
Madam Islam is always the binding factor Islam is a whole way of life Islam is a deen it includes Laws to run government economy and social Life which is the duty of Muslims to implement them only a kafir can say Islam is not a binding factor And Jinah and Iqbal didn't worked for secular Pakistan Islam will be implemented
Re: Secular Pakistan
dont give me your one liner fatwas. give me specific examples.
Maulana Syed Atta Ullah Shah Bokhar is not major scholar for you, may be you are bigger scholar than him!! i guess no major scholar called pakistan as napakistan as well.
For your kind information their were many more scholars who were with Quaid e Azam including Molana Shabir Ahmed Usmani Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Molana Muhammad Shafi Pir of Mani Shareef Pir Mehr Ali Shah and many more
Re: Secular Pakistan
^^ Dont digress from the issue again. come to the point and put money where your mouth is.
Re: Secular Pakistan
The answer is we have the best system the system of Islam the system given by ALLAH we don't any other system
Re: Secular Pakistan
^^ So you cannot justify your statement/fatwa that you just gave?
i will take it as another one of your brain farts.
Secularism is Kufr and it will fail it has failed every where Islam has its own political social and economic system and any one who will go against it will face a sever backlash so promote Islam not kufr
Re: Secular Pakistan
Although this is the zillionth thread on this topic.. and I have expressed the same opinion a zillion times..
I don't think there is any room for a religious political system in any state today which insists on dealing with sins (in religious terms) as far as public prosecution is concerned. State should devise their own standards based on collective wisdom to fix bench marks for personal morality. Crimes should be dealt by the state with no regard to religious orientations. However people like mukobhai should be given total freedom to imply the sharia system they like in their households/personal lives... but should not be allowed to imply their philosophy on others/public at large/state.
To clarify my above mentioned opinion.. Sexual relations between two consenting adults may be a sin in religious terms.. but by no means is a crime. State should avoid looking in people's bedrooms to prosecute these relations by creating some kind of moral policing mechanism..
Rape however is a crime.. should be dealt with total disregard to the religious guide lines. A victim who can not produce four adult male witnesses should be allowed to prove the crime with other forensic means like DNA test etc to prove the crime against her. There should be no gender discrimination as far as witnesses are concerned.
Today's modern societies are based on multicultural/multi religious population demographics. No one religious political system can answer the needs of present day states.. which must protect the rights of each one of the citizen irrespective of religious, racial, ethnic or any other personal orientation..!!!
Re: Secular Pakistan
Although this is the zillionth thread on this topic.. and I have expressed the same opinion a zillion times..
I don't think there is any room for a religious political system in any state today which insists on dealing with sins (in religious terms) as far as public prosecution is concerned. State should devise their own standards based on collective wisdom to fix bench marks for personal morality. Crimes should be dealt by the state with no regard to religious orientations. However people like mukobhai should be given total freedom to imply the sharia system they like in their households/personal lives... but should not be allowed to imply their philosophy on others/public at large/state.
To clarify my above mentioned opinion.. Sexual relations between two consenting adults may be a sin in religious terms.. but by no means is a crime. State should avoid looking in people's bedrooms to prosecute these relations by creating some kind of moral policing mechanism..
Rape however is a crime.. should be dealt with total disregard to the religious guide lines. A victim who can not produce four adult male witnesses should be allowed to prove the crime with other forensic means like DNA test etc to prove the crime against her. There should be no gender discrimination as far as witnesses are concerned.
Today's modern societies are based on multicultural/multi religious population demographics. No one religious political system can answer the needs of present day states.. which must protect the rights of each one of the citizen irrespective of religious, racial, ethnic or any other personal orientation..!!!
Sorry sir you point don't work for a Muslim State because Muslims follow Islam Islam has its own political system sir and you said sexual relation between two people is not a crime but sir it is a crime in Muslim society because it is a crime in Islam Islam can answer to all the political problems because it is the system sent by the creator himself nobody is more smarter than the creator so only Islam can work but secularism will not work because man made systems are bound to fail
Re: Secular Pakistan
Sorry sir you point don't work for a Muslim State because Muslims follow Islam Islam has its own political system sir and you said sexual relation between two people is not a crime but sir it is a crime in Muslim society because it is a crime in Islam Islam can answer to all the political problems because it is the system sent by the creator himself nobody is more smarter than the creator so only Islam can work but secularism will not work because man made systems are bound to fail
"I distrust people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own personal desires.." -Susan B Anthony
So basically you claim to be the only one who knows what Allah wants.. go ahead and implement it in your personal life. Your right to practice Allah's desires in your personal life as per your own personal understanding will be fought by every secular person in the world.. but if God forbid if we have a political religious system in the state your are residing.. I can guarantee you that the you will have to pray, eat, ****, dress etc etc according to the wishes/interpretations of someone else who will not exactly follow your desires..
Re: Secular Pakistan
"I distrust people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own personal desires.." -Susan B Anthony
So basically you claim to be the only one who knows what Allah wants.. go ahead and implement it in your personal life. Your right to practice Allah's desires in your personal life as per your own personal understanding will be fought by every secular person in the world.. but if God forbid if we have a political religious system in the state your are residing.. I can guarantee you that the you will have to pray, eat, ****, dress etc etc according to the wishes/interpretations of someone else who will not exactly follow your desires..
sorry sir GOD didn't sent us to implement the system only in our personal lives but we have to establish in the whole world that is compulsory on all muslims and don't quote me a stupid Non Muslim so called scholar I am a Muslim and as Muslims it is our duty to establish Islam and Islamic State can force many things which some drunk seculars will not like but Islam don't care for these kind of people who break the LAW of ALLAH Islam will be implemented even though kafirs and some secular don't like it because ALLAH has said this in the Quran he will establish Islam and he don't care about the kafirs
Re: Secular Pakistan
sorry sir GOD didn't sent us to implement the system only in our personal lives but we have to establish in the whole world that is compulsory on all muslims and don't quote me a stupid Non Muslim so called scholar I am a Muslim and as Muslims it is our duty to establish Islam and Islamic State can force many things which some drunk seculars will not like but Islam don't care for these kind of people who break the LAW of ALLAH Islam will be implemented even though kafirs and some secular don't like it because ALLAH has said this in the Quran he will establish Islam and he don't care about the kafirs
I can bet mulobhai... you would love to live in a secular system. I really doubt that you would be able to survive one day in a political religious system run by someone else according to his personal understandings/interpretations.. the only political religious system acceptable to you will be in which you will be a Khalifa yourself.. and that is very unlikely..!!!
..And one more thing.. with this kind of hate/intolerance shown towards non muslims how will you bring your system in the whole world.
Re: Secular Pakistan
Mukobhai - In order to get to this perfect Islamic State would you support:
Religious parties get a democratically elected majority - and then implement reforms?
Or would you want people/organizations to commit to an armed struggle to implement the Islamic State?
Re: Secular Pakistan
I can bet mulobhai... you would love to live in a secular system. I really doubt that you would be able to survive one day in a political religious system run by someone else according to his personal understandings/interpretations.. the only political religious system acceptable to you will be in which you will be a Khalifa yourself.. and that is very unlikely..!!!
..And one more thing.. with this kind of hate/intolerance shown towards non muslims how will you bring your system in the whole world.
Sorry sir I hate to live in a system of Kufr I am a Muslim and proud of it And Islam is the best system only those people speak against it for those ALLAH has said in the Quran they are dumb deaf and blind they don't listen see and hear anything but Islam will get established Islam is not here to make every one happy Islam is here to get established because it is the will of ALLAH