Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Although with huge majority muslim population, Indonesia, Turkey, and Malaysia are vibrant economically and culturally progressive nations presently. These countries can boast the safest and most peaceful living conditions for their muslim population while giving cultural liberties to their muslim and non muslim population alike.

The educated middle class of Pakistan must lead a reform movement in Pakistan against religious intolerance, ethnic violence, economic disparities, bad governance, family fiefdoms, corruption, bad governance, and lack of justice. Every Pakistani living in Pakistan irrespective of religious orientation, ethnic background, geographic location must be equal in the eyes of state. If the largest muslim community on the planet Indonesia do not get offended if the country is not labelled Islamic to respect the sensitivities of their non muslim countrymen, our educated middle class have to seriously rethink their attitudes. Pakistanis must become more tolerant in extending choice of lifestyle to liberals, conservatives, religious, non religious.

The News International: Latest News Breaking, World, Entertainment, Royal News man of Asia?

Saturday, January 15, 2011

Babar Sattar
The writer is a lawyer based in Islamabad.

The world believes that the 21st Century will be about Asia’s ascendency. Turkey, once the sick man of Europe, is on the rise. This country with a young population comprising over 99 per cent Muslims has begun to have its own doubts about the benefits of joining the European Union. While its economy was a basket case and at the mercy of the IMF less than two decades ago, buoyed by economic growth and success many in Turkey now believe they might be better off outside the EU as opposed to being bogged down by Greece, Portugal and Ireland as part of the Union. While it has had a fling with an overt role of the military,** it is democracy, fiscal discipline, secularism and cultural liberties that explain the growing strength of Turkey.**

**Indonesia that houses the largest number of Muslims around the world is another shining model. Its brilliant Trade Minister speaking recently at a symposium organised by the Asia Society explained that while over 88 per cent of the Indonesian population is Muslim, Indonesia is not an Islamic country. Driving around the country it becomes obvious that mosques, temples and monasteries can coexist happily. You find that the faith and religious sensibilities of the largest Muslim community on the planet is not offended simply because people are afforded the ability to chose their lifestyles and the extent to which they wish to abide by scripture and ritual. The success of Indonesia too can be explained by its sustained economic growth, democracy and religious and cultural liberties. **

Amidst the latest global financial crisis that has mired the US and Europe in feeble economic activity, China and India are being viewed as engines of growth for the world economy. When the US president or European leaders visit our estranged neighbor they are visibly in a marketing mode and looking for opportunities to work with India. As part of the process to win India’s favor and lend support to its concerns, they jibe at Pakistan as well. Such finger-wagging from across the border makes us all livid. But we haven’t even begun to realise that diplomatic demarches, hollow swagger or exhibition of unrestrained anger against a ‘conspiring’ West is not going to change our fortune or the world’s opinion about us. If we keep aside nationalism, self-pride and similar extra-rational influences, our situation does look pretty dismal and scary.

This is not meant to be another self-deprecating rant aimed at adding to the pessimism all around. Pakistanis have tremendous potential. We know that. And the success and industry of Pakistani expatriates across the globe bears witness. But potential is not enough. In practical life it is performance that matters. And if we take a dispassionate measure of our performance as a state and a society, we find ourselves severely wanting. But we need not swing from self-righteous delusionalism to nihilism. We need not blame the West for all our ills or condemn ourselves to perpetual misery due to a faulty gene or unflattering history. In terms of our state of mind, we need to be self-critical and unhappy enough to want change, but not resigned to the extent that we question our ability to instill and embrace it.

There are various myths that we have come to believe that prevent the change that we need. The first being that we all know what our problems are, the question is how to get to the solution. With all due respect, there is no consensus in Pakistan regarding our problems nor do we share a vision for the future that encompasses desired solutions. The second myth is that we are haunted not because of our approach to policy formulation but lack of implementation. Again, nothing can be further from truth. Because we are still confused about our vision for the future of Pakistan, how can we even begin to formulate considered policies? The third (and probably the most disempowering and damaging) myth is that we need a strong leader who knows wherein our true good lies and is consequently able to save us. We don’t need a messiah but ordinary people inspired and angry enough to think of themselves as agents of change.

We need to start by building a consensus around a vision for Pakistan that is democratic, fiscally disciplined and welfare-oriented, officially neutral toward religion, ethnically inclusive and protective of civil liberties of all citizens. When we speak of democracy, we are not alluding merely to the formal institutions and processes of democracy, but also the culture and ethos within democratic institutions such as political parties that is imperative to sustain democracy. We need a democracy where political parties are neither personal fiefs nor heirlooms. But let us also not forget that khaki saviors waiting eagerly in the shadows will not help foster the evolution of such democratic culture. The continuing political role of the military will only delay the reform of political parties.

We were all taught early in our childhood that whoever pays the piper names the tune. We seem to have forgotten the lesson growing up. Our indiscriminate hatred for the West, our unsustainable military expenditure or our mouth-frothing mullahs will not bolster our sovereignty or reduce our dependence on the US and the IMF. We need fiscal discipline and get down to balancing our books. We have been living on borrowed cash and have now maxed out the available credit. This party is going to crash very soon. And while tethering on the verge of bankruptcy, instead of putting their heads together to agree on measures to curtail expenditure and generate revenue all our political parties are opting for populism.

We don’t need symbolic pro-people populism of the PML-N and the MQM manifested in opposition to the RGST and petrol price hike. Nobody wants to pay taxes or pay extra for petrol. But we need to cough up the funds to sustain ourselves somehow. Our political, agriculture and industrial elites do not wish to pay any taxes, the state is not willing to rationalise its military and other non-developmental expenditure, our generals and bureaucrats wish to continue with their opulent lifestyles sustained by taxes paid by less than ten per cent of the populace and the struggling masses do not have the ability to pay for petrol or commodities anymore. We have allocated no money to educate our kids despite our agreement that education is the panacea to all our ills. We have a large standing army equipped with nuclear weapons but no money to provide food and health security to citizens.

This state of affairs is clearly not sustainable. And let us not wait for any saviors. None will come. We can either allow things to degenerate further to a level where bankruptcy, mal-governance and religious and cultural intolerance lead to violent change or alternatively we can willingly embrace reform. Let us remember that intoxicated by power and privilege, our ruling civil and military elites are not sober enough to take a realistic view of the storm we are caught in and the fast-approaching deluge. The indigent masses have neither the training nor the ability to instill reform. It is the educated middle class of Pakistan that has the most to lose if it doesn’t take the initiative to instigate and lead a reform movement. It is this lot that has the potential, the ability and the incentive to provide the required leadership for change**. Those of us who plan to continue to live in Pakistan and raise our kids here do not have the luxury of time.**

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Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

another secular fanatic thread inciting voilence against non seculars lol but thats the best secular fanatics can do..hiding behind a screen and spreading hate and venom

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

^ what violence was incited? people who make claims about secular/liberal 'fanatics' are generally marked by woolly thinking, a complete lack of knowledge of what basic words like liberal, secular, fanatic, fascist mean and an assumption that nobody will challenge their opinions. Please demonstrate that you are an exception to the rule.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Did he just realise that? Yawn

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

^ ^ Dude, dont you have trouble logging in with such a long user name?

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Firefox - Save Username/Password ;)

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Everyone knows that.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Yeah but last i heard most of these countries had strong religous elements in parlaiment, and there were fears that even the ones like Turkey were becoming more Islamic… :cb:

If they have succeded I believe thier success is owed to the faith of it’s peoples too. It is perfectly possible to hold secular tenents and still be a very strong believer in faith too. :hypo:

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

EXACTLY! Thats what I have been talking about and what Jinnah had envisioned for this country. A nation that is faithful to the tenets of Islam while being secular politically.

Whats the evil in that? Yet the the self proclaimed champions of Islam would be calling for heads to roll if anyone ever expressed this opinion in Pakistan.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Good grief. Secular ideology has nothing at all to with economic progression. If it does, every single secular country should be progressing. It is about economic policy, an educated middle class an a stable economic and security environment. None of these have to do with the secular and religious debate.

Based on your assertion, Liberia, Congo, Guinea Bissau and Rwanda should all be vibrant economies :rolleyes:

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

well man, if you think with wisdom then secularism is never behind the economic progress in the world nor Islamisation is responsible for economic recession, we are actually getting punishments from Allah for our sins and corrupt liberal deeds. when you talk about Islamization then true Islamic rules are not present in a single country today throughout the world. if present then extremism is also there. and that is your weak imaan when you say that secularism is behind economic progress coz when Allah and creator of the universe had himself said that you will get progress and success in only following true sense of Islam then how can you say that Islamization is responsible for recession? its our deeds man, not Islam. ok. whenever true Islamization will be enforced in pakistan without liberalism and extremism, then pakistan would surely go on the way to progress this is the promise of Allah.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

not secular politically man, coz Islam and secularism could never go together, and a person in two boats always drowns. so, that is the weak imaan on your part also that you still not beleive in success in Islamic politics.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Yes it does. Secular ideology means govt doesnt get caught up in nonsensical doctrinal issues as they do in Pak. When govt does get caught in such petty issues, its usually att he expense of what the govt is really suposed to be doing, education, defense, etc.
Mixing of religion with politics means that introducing all kinds of conflict in society. You introduce discrimination, as people who dont ascribe to the state religion are ostracized, and this cause social stresses that can lead to conflict. Ultimately, as we can clearly see in Pakistan today, the marriage of relgion and politics leads to destruction. And destruction is generally not very good for economic progress.

Now being secular obvisously doesnt create economic prosperity, but it does lay the foundtion for social order, and that ultimately leads to economic progress.
Liberia, Congo, Guinea, and Rwanda may not be model economies, but they have a much better chance of being progressive economies then the basket case Asia, the so called “Islamic” Republic.

But I will throw you bone here. Perhaps Islamic thocracies can progress economically on some level. However, as far as Pakistan is concerned, religion and politics do NOT mix. In the case of Pakistan, not only has the mixing of relgion and politics damaged us economically and socially, but we have also distorted Islam into something it isnt.
So PAKISTAN should not be and never should have been an Islamic republic.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Did you even read the article?
The Turks are doing fine as are Indonesians, and they dont insist on being Islamic! Infact, if anyone is drowning its Pakistan with its pseudo Islamic system.
I think you need to reassess your two boat theory as it obviously contradicted by the fact that secular Muslim majority countries are actually prospering.

I have no problem with leaders who adhere to certain values that are Islamic in their personal lives, and even use those values to guide their policies so long as their a universal values,, but not a state that gets involved in issues of doctrine, that takes responsibility of defending the religious sensibilities of only one group at the expense of others, that only allows people from particualr religious groups to take part in govt, that discriminates against other citizens because they dont follow the state sanctioned religion, that deems it the responsibility of the state to determine who is or isnt a Muslim etc. These things are not the job of the state.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Out of respect, I cannot enter this debate. However, I really like this sentence.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Throwing me a bone would be consider valid if your argument was based in the realm of reality. So basically if you have a Secular government you have a better chance to lead to economic progress. Yet that sadly doesn’t apply to Africa, Burma and some Latin American countries. I wonder why? :rolleyes:

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Because they have other problems to contend with aswell.. But atleast there one less problem to contend with, and its probably the most contentious of issues they have avoided.
While issues like ethnic bigotry and economic disparity can be confronted, the dogma of religion is something that is so ingrained in peoples minds, that confronting it often impossible. I mean, you try divorcing the Mind of this Qadri clown from the notion that what he did was something he should be praised for.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Yes that is why Europe didn't have the Renaissance and that is why the US was founded on puritanical beliefs?

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

^ There is separation of church and state in the US. Last I checked, all European countries are secular.

Re: Secular Muslim countries are becoming economic progress models

Correct and did that lead to economic progress right away? Nope. The reason the European nations were economically vibrant was due to colonialism and the slave trade. The reason why in the past 60 years the US has dominated the economic sphere of the world again is not linked to secularism, but being one of the sole countries not affected by world war 2.