Sects of Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Re: Sects of Islam

:wsalam: & Peace shardmanny,

who are “thay” ?

82

Re: Sects of Islam

they was used to refer to shiites

83

Re: Sects of Islam

Peace shardmanny,

You drove my thoughts to somewhere else. :jazak:

84

Re: Sects of Islam

Can someone repeat the original question? What is it we are trying to discover in this discussion? Are we saying that Alawis are the true face of the shiite ideology?

85

Re: Sects of Islam

^ Alawis are** NOT** the true face of the shia ideology but extremist sects who are temed as “ghulat,” or “exaggerators”.

Nusayris / Alawis are off-shoot from Shia and over the time have taken in some Christian customs.

THE ALAWIS OF SYRIA

**Doctrines **

Nusayriyyah

The links below has quite detailed information about (Alawis) Nusayris (for those interested in further reading)

۞ Antioch Gate: About the Alawis & Nusayris](antiochgate.com)

Nusayriyyah/Allawism Subsect of Shi’aism - Islamic Ruling - TTI - Turn To Islam -

Nusayris/Alawis/Alevi/Alawites/Ansaris- Indept Look - TTI - Turn To Islam -

Simeon’s Articles and Papers: Elements of Nusayri Theology

86

Re: Sects of Islam

I dont mean to go into the sectarian beliefs on either side, but just wanted to clarify that sources of history ( like Magahazi and Seerah) are very different from Hadith and their authenticity is judged differently.Sunnis claim that Masudi is a shia source when it talks about intra-sahaba conflicts yet they quote it gleefully when it extols the battle heroics of the same sahaba in the battles of early caliphate.Similarly Shia ( or 12ers) are quick to dismiss tabari as a "sunni source" when it mentions details that conflict with the later imami doctrine even though a lot of work is based on proto-shia or aleast pro-iraqi anti-ummayyad sources.
Secondly the almighty "chain of narration" is a relatively new way of judging narrations.Later narrations ( on either side) even with seemingly impeccable chains but with clear sectarian agenda are likely more suspect than older narrations with smaller chains.The earlier islamic historians like ibn Kalbi, Zuhri, Ali madaini, Waqidi , Masudi are less likely to pander to a sectarian agenda ( although they may defend their regional /tribal forefathers and thus not free totally from bias) than later sanitized versions of history quoted in hadith books of either side.E.g even ibn kathir's ( who has not a shia bone in his body) Al Bidaya has many narrations which will make the sunnis frown as they talk about intra-sahaba conflict, ibn Athir's kamil tarikh is the same.They both absolve themselves of blame by ascribing them to other sources but the fact is that the islamic history of sahaba and their will always go in the favor of shias than sunni as it INEVITABLY talk about their conflicts.Infact if a more harmonizing version of history was available there wud have been no NEED to quote waqidi and Abu Mikhanaf by sunni scholars in history books. Similarly if are to write a book on Shia Imams and their family conflicts ( e.h hussainid and hasanid and abbassids) it will definately favor the sunnis more as it will totally torpedo the imami doctrine ( see crisis and consolidation by moderrassi for example) .Thats why sunnis gloss over the sahaba disputes and shia do the same for the conflicts between the branches of Ahlebayt ( i.e banu hashim)

87

Re: Sects of Islam

[QUOTE]
^ Alawis are** NOT** the true face of the shia ideology but extremist sects who are temed as "ghulat," or "exaggerators".
[/QUOTE]

A lot of Ghulu beliefs have been carefully edited out of the official 12er doctrine over the centuries so as to fit them within the strict defination of a muslim.So 12ers cannot claim to represent the puritin shia ideology ( which has evolved with time) nor can any sect can past or present.Some Ghulu beliefs of earlier shia sects were not adopted by 12ers even though these beliefs pre-dated the twelver imami doctrine

88

Re: Sects of Islam

^^

So ur theory is Twelvers who Supported Imam a.s in jamal and Siffin and then claimed Husnain a.s and they progney are our Imams and they are best creation of ALLAH AFTER PROPHET s.a.w initially believed what Alwi's beleive now ?

OR

Ur other theory cud be .... Twelvers didnt exist back then....It was Sunni's who helped Imam Ali in jamal and Siffin and today they praise Muawiya ?

Please have some support to statement u make and dont force what Twelvers Believed or Believe today.

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Re: Sects of Islam

Those who supported Ali in jamal/siffin were sahaba /tabaeen this is well attested and their names are in all books of rijal their beliefs were neither "sunni" or "12er" in the present sense of the terms.There was no neat classification back to those days and muslims throughout history have had a myriad of beliefs which cannot be neatly classified in 2 groups.
Generally partisans of ALi had a poor opinion of uthman and muawiyah and had a good opinion of Abu Bakr /Umar ( as did the whole community generally speaking) so this position is neither "shia" or "sunni".There was WIDESREAD condemnation of uthman amongst Ali's partisans but you will be hard pressed to find a single example of them condemning Abubakr/umar in the same way during ALi's caliphate or in the time of first 3 imams.
These partisans of ali NEVER praised muawiayh ( except Abu Barazah R.A who only praised the military tactics of muawiyahs commaders) bar those who later sold their loyalties to muawiyah e.g Ziyad b Abih , Ali's governer who later became a partisan of muawiyah.This sunni defence of muawiayh is a part of "dont ask dont tell " sunni doctrine about early civil wars which was formulated in the post-fitna period as a way of healing rifts of the community torn by civil war.This a political neccesity to recouncile all political groups ( ummayyads, banu hashim, ansar etc).Imami shias since they had their fiqahs evolve at a time when they were the political opposition had no need to take a recounciling view towards their enemies as they didnt have to share power or work with them politically.Its a classical phenomena in politics all radical groups become moderate when they gain power and then they are accuseed by a more radical core of being "counter revolutionaries" .Despite sunnis official position of defending all sahaba ( including muawiyah) the general sunni position is overwhelmingly in favor of ALi.

90

Re: Sects of Islam

Some mullahs are never satisfied.

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Re: Sects of Islam

What world are you living in? You expect these hate filled mullahs to cooperate with the same people they hate so much?
Just look at a syllabus of any madressa and see how much bias and intolerance is taught there in the name of religion. This hatred is evident every in Pakistan even among non madress lot, and it is evident even on this forum.
In fact, the hatred is to the level that they would rather help Zionist Jews if it could result in the destruction of a country belonging to another sect like Iran.

A common cause? What common cause? They can find common cause with Zionists but not with other sects.

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Re: Sects of Islam

Accept the fatwa everyone.
And if you don't accept it then you are one of them and jihad is farD on you.