If sects are banned how do you explain/justify whatever sect that you are following? B/c majority of people do follow different sects (2 major sects shia/sunis are further divided into different sects, too).
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Peace Shamraz Khan
Can you explain what you mean by "If sects are banned" ... what does that mean?
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
^^ psyah, I think he means "discouraged", "not appreciated", "looked down upon" by the prophet PBUH.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
^^ psyah, I think he means "discouraged", "not appreciated", "looked down upon" by the prophet PBUH.
I don't think prophet(saw) looked down upon any thing or any one.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
I was referring to 73 sectors in Islam as mentioned in one hadees:
*((My ummah will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them will be in the Fire except one?)), [Saheeh Muslim, no.976]
*
Do you think he felt happy about 72 sectors of his ummah ending up in hell fire?
I don't think prophet(saw) looked down upon any thing or any one.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Maybe I was not clear, but my understanding is that Islam forbids creating sects (fiqas). And most people follow one of the 2 major sects (Shia/Sunni). If so how do you explain this:
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Sahih International: Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.
Pickthall: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.
Yusuf Ali: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
Shakir: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.
Muhammad Sarwar: Some of those who have divided their religion into different sects are not your concern. Their affairs are in the hands of God Who will show them all that they have done.
Mohsin Khan: Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad SAW) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.
Arberry: Those who have made divisions in their religion and become sects, thou art not of them in anything; their affair is unto God, then He will tell them what they have been doing.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Sects are forbidden, does not mean they will not occur
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
If sects are banned how do you explain/justify whatever sect that you are following? B/c majority of people do follow different sects (2 major sects shia/sunis are further divided into different sects, too).
Peace Shamraz Khan
Now I have understood you ...
Hopefully any sect of Islam does not believe itself to be a sect, but asserts the others have deviated from the path ... Taking Shi'a Sunni for example ... The Khawarij were the first sect of Muslims, who had a belief that was not as per the true teachings of Islam ... At the time of the Shi'a Sunni split both sides essentially had the same Islamic belief. It was only through time that the political separation of the Shi'a became a dogmatic one.
It is important for the Sunnis to distinguish ourselves from what separated from us, hence it was inevitable. If you follow the complete Hadith you will see that we are not told this Hadith to try to prevent the formation of sects, but we are told this Hadith to work out which one will be on the truth so as to select it...
The indicator given to us is to keep to the main body of the Muslims and the consensus of scholars.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
If sects are banned how do you explain/justify whatever sect that you are following? B/c majority of people do follow different sects (2 major sects shia/sunis are further divided into different sects, too).
Peace *Shamraz Khan *– First of all you must understand the tendency in Humans to break into sects!
Rebellion of Iblees (Satan) the cursed
(Allah) said: "O Iblees (Satan)! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?"
(Iblees (Satan)) said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud" (Quran, al-Hijr:32 – 33)
(Allah) said: "Then, get out from here, for verily, you are Rajeem (an outcast or a cursed one)."
"And verily, the curse shall be upon you till the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)" *(Quran, al-Hijr: 34 – 35). *
Then Iblees asked for a respite until the Day of Resurrection, and Allah Almighty granted him that. Allah says:
Iblees (Satan)) said: "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day they (the dead) will be resurrected."
Allah said: "Then, verily, you are of those reprieved,
"Till the Day of the time appointed" (Quran, al-Hijr: 36 – 38).
After Allah gave him the reprieve until the Day of Judgment, he made misleading man as his primary goal. Allah told us about that in the Quran
Iblees (Satan)) said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all. "Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them" (Quran, al-Hijr: 39 – 40).
“Iblees) said: ‘Because You have sent me astray, surely, I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your straight path. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)’” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 16,17).
Allah Almighty has warned us in the Quran about division and sectarianism.
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. Surah Al Imran 103
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.** Surat Al-'An`am 159**
Allah Almighty has commanded Muslims to take the Blessed Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) as a role model to be followed (Sunnah) and obeyed.
Allah says, "Say: if you love Allah, follow me and He will love you and forgive you your wrong actions."** [Al-Qur'an Surah Al-Imraan: 31] **
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (Qur'an Surah An-Nissa’:13)
And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh. (Qur'an Surah An-Nissa’:64)
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. *(Qur'an Surah An-Nissa’: 59). *
"No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they ask you to judge between them in what they disagree about and then they shall find in themselves no impediment touching your verdict, but shall surrender in full submission." *[Al-Qur'an Qur'an Surah An-Nissa’:64] *
And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh. *(Qur'an Surah An-Nissa’:80)*
Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (Qur'an Surah AL Maida: 92).
"Believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet who believes in Allah and His words. Follow him, perhaps you will be guided." [Al-Qur'an Al-Araaf:157]
Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.( *Al-Qur'an Al-Nur: 54).*
Allah also says, "You have a good model in the Messenger of Allah for one who hopes for Allah and the Last Day."** [Al-Qur'an Al-Ahzaab:21]**
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (Al-Qur'an Al-Ahzaab:71)
The Messenger is sent to deliver the book and explaining it to the people, and Allah states clearly that he sent the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to explain to people what Allah has sent to them
And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur’ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. **(Al-Qur'an an-Nahl:44)
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) Illustrating the straight path
"One day Prophet Muhammad PBUH), drew a line in the sand for them and said, "This is Allah's path." He then drew several lines to the right and to the left and said, "These are the paths [of misguidance] on each of which is a devil inviting people to follow it." He then recited the verse: 'Verily, this is my path, leading straight, so follow it. And do not follow the [other] paths for they will scatter you about from Allah's path. That is His command to you in order that you may be conscious of Allah' (Hadith by Imam Ahmed)
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) commanding Muslims to follow the ‘Great Majority’ of the Ummah!
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said "The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell."
When asked which group will be on the right path, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, "The main (al-Jama'ah) body of the Muslims." *[Ibne Majah Kitab al-Fitan] *
*
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said " There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell."
When asked which group will be on the right path, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, "The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunnah and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims."* [Tirmizi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat]
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said "Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority)" [Ibne Majah]
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said " Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" *[Ibne Majah]*
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said "The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well-known group of Muslims!" *[Imam Ahmed] *
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said “Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell."** Tirmizi] **
The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said " He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam." *[Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed] *
*In his Last Sermon the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) warned his Ummah to be aware of Satan’s nefarious plans to lead people astray *
*"O People, Beware of the devil, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I am leaving you with the Book of Allah and my SUNNAH, if you follow them you will never go astray".*
Allah Almighty has already warned in the blessed Quran that the people will not heed.
Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!** Surah Rum verse 32**
May Allah Guide Us All To Truth and Keep Us On The Straight Path - the Path that earns Allah Almighty's Pleasure - ameen
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Main question is, how does anyone justify they belong to the 1 sect which Prophet PBUH said is right.. and not 1 of 73 sects?
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Sects are forbidden, does not mean they will not occur
I understand that, but the question is how do you explain that in light of what Quran says (about sects) & justify belonging to one?
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Main question is, how does anyone justify they belong to the 1 sect which Prophet PBUH said is right.. and not 1 of 73 sects?
Unbroken chains of tutelage that go back to RasoolAllah (SAW)
Vivid and wide permissions (ijazas) for their scholars
And holistically - the group that is most widely accepted by other groups - the pattern being that the more extreme or fringe the group becomes they become increasingly less accepting of other groups and other groups become less accepting of them. Usually the group that is most widely accepted is the type of group that is universal and inclusive to a greater degree than the others and it happens to be the majority ... and it may not be any one group but may be a collection of groups - but as far as that hadith is concerned the main body would be equivalent to all those groups that accept each other in their differences and not those groups whose differences have not been accepted.
If you draw a chart where a radius length of a circle is drawn to represent the size of any and each group, create connecting arms on the circles to show that they accept the Islam of the groups they attach to and no arms to who they don't accept - you will get a picture of many collections of groups ... some connected some not some collections will be smaller some bigger ... Look for the biggest collective taking in to account the overall size of the circles themselves as well and you will be able to draw another circle around those groups that form the main body.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Main question is, how does anyone justify they belong to the 1 sect which Prophet PBUH said is right.. and not 1 of 73 sects?
Ibn saddiq nay mamla clear kar diya. :)
Ignore small groups as they are out anyhow. Let look at big groups claiming themselves Muslim. Do census if you want to and see who exist as majority or existed as majority throughout history (or if you know any group that existed as majority at any time in history) as this group would be in majority from first day of Islam. You can think and whatever they practiced (as majority would never practice wrong) ... and obviously whoever was in majority would be in majority now too until Qiyamah (as they could not be wrong and thus would stay in majority).
Group/Sect 1: Sunni/Sufi/Berelvi … whatever `
Group/Sect 2: Deobandi
Group/Sect 3: Wahabi/Ahl-hadith/Salafi … whatever
Group/Sect 4: Shia Twelver
Group/Sect 5: Shia Zaidi
Group/Sect 6: Agha-Khani
And so on …
Ignore any new group, because new group mean group that did not existed in past, or if existed than they and their beliefs were minority … and being minority, they are/were wrong and not part of majority (ijmah) who are always right.
Further, if you think of anyone who claims or had claimed as reformer, be assured that the person was devil, as a reformer is one who tries to change what exists or whatever majority (ijmah) practices.
You can judge practices and beliefs too, that is, what majority (ijmah) practice and belief, they are right. If anyone talks against (or want to reform) what majority believe and practice, then get alert, as they are wrong.
So … you got your answer? :)
Well, that is one answer to your question …
Anyhow ... though personally, above answer suits me, there is another more appropriate answer (as far as I am concerned), that I will give later. :)
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Ignore any new group, because new group mean group that did not existed in past, or if existed than they and their beliefs were minority … and being minority, they are/were wrong and not part of majority (ijmah) who are always right.
Further, if you think of anyone who claims or had claimed as reformer, be assured that the person was devil, as a reformer is one who tries to change what exists or whatever majority (ijmah) practices.
You can judge practices and beliefs too, that is, what majority (ijmah) practice and belief, they are right. If anyone talks against (or want to reform) what majority believe and practice, then get alert, as they are wrong.
Where in Quran it says that just go with whatever majority believes in?
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Ibn Sadique
May I ask how God misled satan? He had a free will which he used. Then how God misled him?
**
Rebellion of Iblees (Satan) the cursed**
Iblees (Satan)) said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all. "Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them" (Quran, al-Hijr: 39 – 40).
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
@Sa1eem,
Please also give that answer which you feel is more appropriate. Thanks.
And majority I think are Sufi muslims. But then what about all the unislamic customs they follow like believing fortune tellers (palmists, numerologists), acceptance to music, etc.? Or should these be considered small sins of the sector and be ignored???
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Unbroken chains of tutelage that go back to RasoolAllah (SAW) Vivid and wide permissions (ijazas) for their scholars And holistically - the group that is most widely accepted by other groups - the pattern being that the more extreme or fringe the group becomes they become increasingly less accepting of other groups and other groups become less accepting of them. Usually the group that is most widely accepted is the type of group that is universal and inclusive to a greater degree than the others and it happens to be the majority ... and it may not be any one group but may be a collection of groups - but as far as that hadith is concerned the main body would be equivalent to all those groups that accept each other in their differences and not those groups whose differences have not been accepted.
If you draw a chart where a radius length of a circle is drawn to represent the size of any and each group, create connecting arms on the circles to show that they accept the Islam of the groups they attach to and no arms to who they don't accept - you will get a picture of many collections of groups ... some connected some not some collections will be smaller some bigger ... Look for the biggest collective taking in to account the overall size of the circles themselves as well and you will be able to draw another circle around those groups that form the main body.
let's just cut all the rocket science.
You said unbroken chain.. ok unbroken chain of what? sunnah? Hadith? if that's what you mean then you should be aware that within sunni's there are countless of sects, each believe in the same 'unbroken' chain, yet they all differ. Same goes with Shiite's as well.
You and everyone have the right to say they are the 1 jamaat for whom Prophet Muhammad PBUH said are on the right path. But for that, you have to profess out loud that YOU are the right one and the rest of 73 sects whosoever they maybe are wrong, and eventually going to hell. Can you profess this ? I will tell you that you never will do it. So then, how is it possible that you STAY within 73 sects and also claim to be 1 rightly guided jamaat? Does it make any sense to you?
You want to be that 1 jamaat? Go ahead and declare all other sects hell bound. But you cannot 'remain' in 73 and also call yourself 1 out of that.
The fatwa that will work is not of your scholars, and not of what you think. The fatwa which will be accepted will be of Holy Prophet PBUH.
I will also remind you some history. Being one jamaat and 73 on the other side has happened once and once only so far where all sects of Islam joined hands together , forgetting about their own differences and declared one jamaat out of the fold of Islam. I dont need to tell you which 1 jamaat I'm talking about.
If you read the whole hadith regarding 73 and 1 being right jamaat, In it sahabah asked which jamaat will it be , and the answer was.. those who will be following me and my Sahaba. ( which one sect is not allowed to pray, like Huzur and sahaba were stopped to pray? which sect cannot profess and/or preach their beliefs, like how huzur PBUH and sahaba used to be careful in preaching etc.. )
These discussions dont need philosophical kind of answers. It is all clear for those with understanding.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Read Ibn Sadique's post
Where in Quran it says that just go with whatever majority believes in?
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
You're ignoring the first part of the hadees which says "Go with the majority". If you're talking about Ahmedis, then they're not in majority.
Re: Sects in Islam: How do you explain this?
Where in Quran it says that just go with whatever majority believes in?
Brother, I did not quoted Quran. Anyhow, there is widely quoted hadith attributed to prophet (SAW) saying that his (SAW) ummah would never unite on misguidance, so if you find Muslim differing, follow the majority.