Second wife =home wrecker always?

[redvelvet]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@LP

Isn’t that exactly what I had said?

No, it will never be “exactly” what you said. Come let’s pull our hair together!

(that’s you)

(and that’s me)

[redvelvet]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@LP

I see no such post in this thread

He’s referring to my post, LP.

He wants to apply his “western” soch to this topic. Yet ironically, he fails to understand that polyandry (having multiple husbands) is not accepted in the West either.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@redvelvet

Lmao. Uhmmm…“moral” does not necessarily have to mean “equal” sir. Even “just” does not have to mean “equal.” And please don’t get side-tracked here (as you typically do) and start throwing out examples of child marriages and mutah and falana tamkana.

Let’s stick to the issue at hand, shall we? Do you consider the image of a woman going from one husband to the next to the next…a decent thing? If it does not disturb you at all, then something is wrong with you. You might see such an arrangement as “female empowerment”…but it really…(and pardon my bluntness) …it makes that wife look like the “btch” of all those men. Allah has made men and women DIFFERENT in terms of their physical strength and their psychological/emotional makeup…and that’s why it’s a folly to have the same exact equal rules for both genders in everything…because that fails to take into consideration their unique limitations…and that is the opposite of justice, sir.

Now, let’s look at the hadith you quoted. The Prophet SAWS said “By Allah the daughter of the Messenger of Allah and the daughter of the ENEMY of Allah will not be joined as wives of the same man.” That makes sense to me. The Prophet SAWS never saud that Hazrat Ali AS better not marry ANY other woman. He made a specification…He said the daughter of the ENEMY of Islam. It kinda changes things. The family of your ENEMY living in close quarters with you…can be a very dangerous thing.

What exactly is your motive for putting forth this hadith? It’s possible that Hazrat Fatima AS herself would not want to remain married to her husband if he took on another wife. And if the Prophet SAWS’s wives had demanded a divorce from him if he took on another wife…he doesn’t strike me as the kind of man that would keep them against their will; He would have given them the choice to leave. A father knows his daughter. He must have known that Fatima AS did not have it within her to handle a second wife and so he might have even expressed his daughter’s desire on her behalf. And Hazrat Ali (AS) out of his love and regard for the messenger did not carry this out. You know, even prominent Western figures were in awe of the Prophet SAWS character and they did not get hung up on his multiple marriages or the age of his wives. They looked at the Prophet SAWS’s character on the whole. So, look at him on the whole.

Also, baby steps. First we need to work on not looking down on spinsters before we graduate to championing polyandry.

There can be mitigating situations where mujtahids can say that under current circumstances the men cant guarantee equality, or that the harm from multiple marriages is more than the benefit and withdraw the right to multiple marriages. We don’t accept slavery today, it was accepted before. Or there can be stringent legal requirements and the first wife given guarantees in financial settlements and support in case of injustice. A person reaping what they sow is just a person bearing the consequences of their behavior. If I was alone because I was a horrible person then I would take accountability and blame it on my horrible behavior.

[LP]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@Bobby1

So then the first wife should give written consent or she should be given enough support payments and part of the property and the right to divorce. If the woman is dependent then under financial duress she can be coerced to agree. I don’t know any woman who would agree to husband marrying a shiny new model. Also there is the moral dilemma that a married man here stops eyeing other women as he is done with finding a mate, with belief in polygamy a married man is always in the market and has 3 vacancies. Or four if he fires the first one.

Islam asks him to be just to all his wives. Giving everyone what is their right. This is exactly what you are saying as well as what the other posters and I am saying. I don’t understand why you don’t see that we both are on the same page regarding being just to them all. It’s perplexing.

[LP]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@redvelvet

He’s referring to my post, LP.

He wants to apply his “western” soch to this topic. Yet ironically, he fails to understand that polyandry (having multiple husbands) is not accepted in the West either.

Can you please quote the post and highlight the part where you said that polygamy is because the man is the breadwinner of the family. For informational purposes. I honestly failed to read that.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@redvelvet

He’s referring to my post, LP.

He wants to apply his “western” soch to this topic. Yet ironically, he fails to understand that polyandry (having multiple husbands) is not accepted in the West either.

And polygamy isn’t also so that is just. We believe in gender equality. Men are not allowed 4 wives and women aren’t allowed multiple husbands, men cant say talak 3 times and boot the wife of 25 years out on the street. Nature has created men and women in equal numbers for a reason. If wealthy good looking guys can have 4 wives then what about the average joes, so many wont have partners. Also for sexuality as Oprah had pointed out on her show that most men cannot satisfy multiple women so could it ever be fair?

[redvelvet]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@Bobby1

If I was alone because I was a horrible person then I would take accountability and blame it on my horrible behavior.

Sir, I assure you that I can NEVER fathom the possibility of YOU being alone. And it’s not due to any irresistible charms that you might imagine yourself to posses. But rather it’s because a man of your pompous nature would desperately require a mate who will making a compliant sounding board for his incessant self-praise.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@LP

Islam asks him to be just to all his wives. Giving everyone what is their right. This is exactly what you are saying as well as what the other posters and I am saying. I don’t understand why you don’t see that we both are on the same page regarding being just to them all. It’s perplexing.

The only problem is when the first wife thinks he is being unjust then where is the laws and rules to protect her, do the laws require her to sign a consent and guarantee her fairness and justice. The poor women are mostly financially dependent, she lost her beauty and youth serving this polygamist and if she protests against the second marriage he simply boots her out, all it takes is minimum mehr of US Dollars 450.00 so the contention is on what is equitable and just. Tell me of a single married woman you know would find it to be just? My contention is that it will certainly be almost always unfair. The only way it can be fair is if she is allowed as many husbands as he is allowed wives. You didn’t answer my questions as to why in polygamist culture should married man stop looking for a young beautiful wife, where doesthat leave the society. No wonder there is so much ogling.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@redvelvet

Sir, I assure you that I can NEVER fathom the possibility of YOU being alone. And it’s not due to any irresistible charms that you might imagine yourself to posses. But rather it’s because a man of your pompous nature would desperately require a mate who will making a compliant sounding board for his incessant self-praise.

I haven’t been alone since I was 15, it is not only my family but I get great praise from my colleagues, superior and junior and from scores of customers and from my everyday interactions, from my club and volunteer groups also. Being liked or disliked is not your destiny written in heavens, it depends on if you are an angry abusive hateful person.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

Also kind of funny that for marriage in the west most muslim women want the Islamic way but I was reading in a research that no muslim woman accepts divorce as per Islam here in the western countries. In the west they want judgement as per western family laws, splitting property, custody of children, support payment etc.

[SindSagar]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@Bobby1

Some poster had mentioned in Islam the man is the head of the household. That is not our view in the western society and ideal is equal partnership.

**The same Western Society that does not believe that Amma Hawwa (Eve) was born from Adam ES’s floating Rib?

actually Bobby1 the question is how far are you going to go with this We Western Belief ? **

[krash]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

The West is also discovering a gender-equal version of polygamy and calling it polyamory.
The problem with polygamy as practiced in Islamic cultures is not the lack of equality between wives but the lack of equality between a husband and his wives.
Also, in practice the consent of the fisrt wife is often reluctant or forced.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

It’s all good as long as all parties involved are okay with the arrangement. A husband might be capable of being just with his wife, however, that still means going from having 100% attention of your spouse to having 50% (or 33% or 25%) of his attention. Again, some women might be cool with this while others might ask for a divorce. Can’t be any simpler than that.

The same holds for polyandry as well. It’s all good as long as all parties involved are okay with the arrangement.

Why is there so little acceptance of the polygamy?

Maybe because most people don’t want to share their partner with other folks. Heck, sharing someone with their parents can be a chore (all the MIL issues). Now imagine someone sleeping with your spouse, robbing you of his\her attention and affection. It takes a lot of heart to share your partner with someone else.

Also, your partner wanting another husband or a wife can give rise to self-doubt, “Am I not good enough for him\her?” “What am I doing wrong?” “Does he even love me anymore?”

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@SindSagar

**The same Western Society that does not believe that Amma Hawwa (Eve) was born from Adam ES’s floating Rib?

actually Bobby1 the question is how far are you going to go with this We Western Belief ? **

Someone needs to educate the molecular biologists ad scientists who say that evolution is proven beyond a scintilla of doubt.

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@krash

The West is also discovering a gender-equal version of polygamy and calling it polyamory.
The problem with polygamy as practiced in Islamic cultures is not the lack of equality between wives but the lack of equality between a husband and his wives.
Also, in practice the consent of the fisrt wife is often reluctant or forced.

What are you talking about, muslim women are totally cool with letting her husband who in many cases may not even be able to fulfill her needs go and sleep with a shiny young wife while she tends to his kids. A slap and a kick is not really forcing her she asked for it by being disobedient. Threat of saying the dreaded 3 words and turning a financially dependent woman on the street is not really coercion. How can you be so insensitive to my god given rights.

Some of these ladies need to talk to my very religious wife, she says if I so much as look at another woman she will cut me to pieces.

[SindSagar]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@Bobby1

Someone needs to educate the molecular biologists ad scientists who say that evolution is proven beyond a scintilla of doubt.

You may not be aware of the Latest development in the origins of life on Earth, the Scientist are now saying life could only have originated in Mud or Clay! does that sound familiar?

[Bobby1]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

@SindSagar

You may not be aware of the Latest development in the origins of life on Earth, the Scientist are now saying life could only have originated in Mud or Clay! does that sound familiar?

I know we have all the answers in Madrassas and they are spending billions on researching DNA telling us all living creatures share DNA and Bonobos and humans had a common ancestor. Spending billions again sending space craft in interstellar.

[Rehman01]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

According to Islam, as has been pointed out..it’s permissible and it’s not labeled, not in the west anyway…(at least not here…there are a lot of questions and discussions since the tv show Sister Wives aired…but…not negatively) Some agree, some don’t. But, religiously it’s allowed with many stipulations, as some were already pointed out.
There will always be issues between people. No matter what. Even in a monogamous relationship, the husband isn’t always fair to the wife…should this husband take on a second wife? Probably not.
Why can’t A women have more than one husband? Well, two known reasons. 1) when she has a child, how would you know who the father is? 2) when a woman is with more than one man she can develop issues due to being with more than one man.

Honestly, I’m pretty sure I would do this, SHE would be judged in a not so positive manner. If I’m being really honest…what woman in their right mind would WANT are marry more than 1 man anyway. Geez.

[Deeba1234]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

^DNA would be the answer to question 1

And not every woman would develop issues.. there are women who can and do enjoy multiple partners..

(I’m not necessarily saying it’s right or I would condone it lol so please don’t take my post that way)

[decentGuy]

Re: Second wife =home wrecker always?

A woman with more than one husband would become a joke of society above all else.

There are many examples of rich western men flaunting relationship with multiple women at the same time. Very difficult to find a rich woman who will flaunt such an arrangement with multiple men though. Nobody is stopping her from doing that in West. Men and women are different by nature. Hence different rules.

The whole idea of marriage is dying in the US. Laws have become so anti-marriage that many men are now scared to marry at all. They go from one girl to another without marriage and as long as both are “happy”, he stays and at the first sign of trouble he leaves. Women here get all the attention from ages 16 to 26. Afterwards she’s mostly on her own. Percentage wise only few women are qualified for professional jobs, the rest have to do manual jobs for decades afterwards to survive if they have no partner. Suicide among women is increasing consistently, primarily due to economic hardships. This is happening in the richest country to have ever existed. Just imagine if such ideas are applied to not so rich societies.

Tobacco companies advertised cigarettes to women as a sign of liberty and freedom. Today’s tough marriage laws are similar, they are hurting more women than helping them by making haraam relationships easy but halal extremely difficult.

Many desi women who find peace in western marriage laws and make life hell for their husband should know that there is a strong probability they wouldn’t have been married in the first place had their husband only cared for western laws.