Sayings of Imam Husayn

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

The hadith compilation was not started during the era of Ali bin Abi Talib and Imam Hussain [as] rather about number of years after that, but those ‘recorders’ or ‘report collectors’ travelled country to country for years to gather authentic reports even from the open enemies of the family of Prophet [s] but never bothered to visit the progeny of the Holy Prophet [s] being the best source. Not only this but ulema attested the authenticity of those opponents!
quite strange
:confused:

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

^ if u r talking about bukhari et al then i think u forgot what time in history they did the collecting thing....

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

no i didnt forget the time. The progeny of Holy Prophet [s] has been in every era and people who knew their exalted status used to benefited by them.

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

imam abu hanifa was a student of imam muhammad baqir and also has some narrations from imam jaafar sadiq i think....

but bukhari died even after the 11th imam (according to shiaas) had been dead....

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

kaleem, :k: well done!
Was it a part of his sermon in Mecca maybe when he had to leave during Hajj? His Day of Arafah sermon? Or on the day of Ashura? Or maybe even when he was forced to leave Madina? Or the countless speeches he gave on his way from Mecca towards Kufah/Karbala reiterating the same message, the same point again and again hoping some of it would get through to people?

Wherever it was that sermon was given - and I can only guess - the point is that what I posted and what you posted are both the same. Like I said Shias don’t have a monopoly on Hussain and yet instead of getting all defensive and thinking that commemoration of hussain is a shia invention/issue per se (and I’m talking about substance here not style of commemoration) like jaan leva who thinks remembering Imam Hussain is unislamic, sunnis very rarely realise their own traditions relatings to karbala and Imam Hussain.

If you got some more sayings and sermons - do post. Maybe if you try a little harder you might just uncover gems about the event of Karbala itself.

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

I wonder what Imam Abu Hanifa had to say about the events of Karbala, whether he narrated anything from Imam Baqir on that subject. Keeping in mind of course that Imam Baqir was present at Karbala as a 4-year old with his father Imam Zainul Abidin and then throughout the whole journey from Karbala to Damascus and then finally back to Madina. It is not easy for a child to forget the emotions and effects of such terrible events in his formative years.

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

imam hussain (ra) was forced to leave madinah????

now how and when did this happen????

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

What's your version? That he left for a merry vacation did he??

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

Bukhari (d. 256 AH) got the eras of 9th (d. 220 A.H.), 10th (d. 254 A.H) and 11th (B.232 A.H- d.260 A.H.) imams of Ahlulbayt [as].
But the most important point (which i have been trying to emphasize) is that the chains of narration of Bukhari goes back to Sahabah and Holy Prophet [s] but we dont find the progeny of Holy Prophet [s] in those chains but do find their opponents :S

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

ok here's a quick history 101:

around rajab 60 AH or thereabouts muawiyah dies and Yazid becomes caliph
Being the fool that he is, he immediately writes to the governor of Madinah Walid Ibn atabah to get the oath of allegiance from Imam hussayn or his head. On 26th Rajab, around maghrib time the governor calls Imam Hussayn and demands his oath. Imam asks for a day and to be able to discuss this in public. Marwaan ibn hakam is there too. He tells the governor not to let Hussain go unless he gives his oath there and then otherwise kill him. Imam makes his position clear saying '' A person like me can never give the oath of allegiance to a person like Yazid who had violated all tenets of Islam". Having no other option and to avoid bloodshed Imam and his family are forced leave Madina on 28th Rajab 60 AH.

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

^ he was not forced....
he left cuz the people of Kufa wrote to him to come over to them and that they shall help him and accept him as their ruler....
he took all the time, sent muslim bin aqeel (ra) to them to make sure the letters were authentic, and when he got the green signal, he moved....

and in all this, i dont see an element of being forced to leave madinah....

abdullah bin abbas (ra), i remember reading, rode behind him when he heard that he has left and tried to persuade him not to go cuz the same ppl had killed his father and betrayed his brother before....

and the oath in madinah had already been taken by the governor when it was announed (falsely) that Hussain bin Ali (ra), Abdullah bin Umar (ra) and Abdullah bin Zubair (ra) have already accepted yazid as khalifa and hence common ppl found no reason to object....

Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn

armughal, How could the oath have already been taken and then 'falsely' announced?

And if we are to take your point about kufa, why did the Imam head off towards Mecca and stay there for what at least three months leading upto zilhajj?

Yes Imam did recieve letters from Kufa, but most of this was during his time in Mecca when the people of Iraq got the news (news didn't travel as fast then) that Imam had left Madina, refused allegiance to Yazid and was now in Mecca.

Here's the timeline:

26th Rajab - letter recieved by governor of Madina from Yazid
28th Rajab - Imam and most of Banu Hashim leave Madina
4th Shaban - Imam Hussayn's caravan arrives in Mecca
10th Ramadhan - Imam recieves first letter from the people of Kufa followed by other petitions from different people
End of Zi'lqada - Hazrat Muslim ibn aqeel arrives in Kufa
within less than a month the political environment of Kufa changes, fearing revolt, on 2nd of Zil-hajj, Yazid appoint Ibn Ziyad the governor of Kufa the city is sealed and there are curfews all around.

8th Zil-Hajj - Imam realises Yazid's soldiers have arrived in Mecca, armed under their Ihram and so changes his Ihram and niyyat and leaves Mecca with his family.
9th Zil-hajj - Hazrat Muslim is killed in Kufa by the governor.
Somewhere on his journey between Mecca and the eventual Karbala Imam recieved news of Muslim's death and that Kufa was a no go area for him.
Then they are met up with Yazid's soldiers who are under orders to not let him go further to kufa or to turn back to Mecca and Madina.
2nd Muharram - Imam's caravan and the soldiers waiting for further orders reach and camp at Karbala.

If you say that the Kufah people wrote to Imam while he was in Madina, you are forgetting a couple of things:
1 - Muawiyah died sometime in early/mid Rajab and any time before that would not have tolerated people from what was effectively his 'kingdom' calling Imam Hussayn to become their leader because he had already fought Imam Ali and in the end had a conditional peace treaty with Imam Hassan to consolidate his position as caliph. Imam Hassan then lived in Madina, as did Imam Hussayn.
2 - Imam Hussayn lived all these years in Madina, during the rule of Muawiyah and during all this time the Kufans did not feel obliged to invite him to Kufa as their leader.
3 - Which indicates that something happened between the death of Muawiyah (Rajab) and Yazid becoming Caliph (Rajab) that caused the people of Kufa to invite Hussayn to become their leader. Here the assumption you are making of course that (a) people from kufa knew Imam would not tolerate Yazid, although he did tolerate his father Muawiyah for Caliphate. That is an impossible assumption to make unless of course you already know there is going to be a showdown because Hussayn has already refused allegiance to Yazid and by the time this news has spread to Iraq, Hussayn is already in Mecca. That is where you would write letters of invitation, not to Madina.

Now if you insist on saying he recieved messengers and letters in Madina from Iraq during this very very short amount of time (at least 3 weeks) and supposing Imam immeditely jumped at the chance and did not take time to discuss the offer with his family and friends in Madina, it doesn't need a genius to figure out that he would have set off to Kufa and not to Mecca, given the politcal climate and reasoning for going - i.e. to take caliphate in kufa.

All of this shows that it would have been physically impossible for Imam Hussain to have recieved letters of invitation in Madina. Therefore his decision to leave Madina would have been the result of something else, i.e. having no other option; being compelled to leave to avoid bloodshed, in other words, forced.