Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
In this whole blah blah, the amusing part is “which lead us to the same mantal condition”. One its mental, second you admit following Hazrat Ayesha(r) since her actions came before Karbla. Third why dont you guys get in the same “mantal” condition on the death/passing away anniversary of Muhammad:saw:?
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Thats what i have been saying that al the important text seems to be blah blah to you and then again you come up with some childish remarks and questions. This will continue untill you pay attention what has been posted to you.
Coming to your point about me following Ayesha. Never! As i said i dont have any such wish to bring women out of their homes to wage war against the ruler and killing number of muslims. As for citing her action here in case of matam, i just posted it for a person who passed the fatwa of Biiddah on the mourning by Shias for the tregedy of Karbala and them i tried to make him understand the concept of matam by Shias using the same incident of Ayesha.
Secondly since you yourself do not have any grief for some people therefore you do not have any right to object at the mourning by the breaved ones. Frist you should tell how do you commemorate the aforsaid incidents? But still i would like to answer your question that Shia do hold majalis for the prophet of Islam [s] on 27 Safar. The reason of commemorating the tragedy of Karbala on the larger scale than any other incident is the fact the Prophet [s] himself and also other memebers of Ahlylbayt [as] had the grief of Karbala. i dont think there is any need to point out such statements.
in the end, you may find spelling mistakes in my post since i have to type very quickly or sometime i am unaware of but the main thing is to transfer the central idea. So no need to point out!
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Boy-nice, you proved once agian that you are just a boy.
There are so many questionable/controversial things in your post that I do not know where to begin.
First, I have read your post and there is nothing that contradicts my remark “Imam Hussain (r) would never have made those comments/statement”.
What grief are you ranting about? Does everyone has to show the grief the same way? You want all muslims to do mataam and take to the streets alongwith a “bhnag” induced white horse? Is that the standard of grief? Now, tell me do you do the same stuff for your deceased family memebers? If not why not? You dont love them or is it because you do not hold them as dear as the martyrs in Karbala?
Regarding you rnat about Muhammad:saw: knowing the future; we all know not to go there, however, its suffice to say that he did not. I know, I know you are going to come back with a load of ahadeeth claiming that he did. he may have known that they will have a tragic death, but I am not sure if he knew the whole details like shias claim.
Lastly, if you are so hell bent on following the “progeny” why dont you guys tell us how the immediate family members of Muhammad:saw: grieved. Start with Hazrat Ali(r), Hazrat Fatima (r)…
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Who is asking you to follow Aisha (ra)? You are only good at following your own women.
The point is that you follow Islam that prophet practiced, karbala is not Islam and your world seems to revolve around Karbala and historic individuals who died there rather than paying attention to what Prophet said, did and asked us to do.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Were they even alive then?
So you are saying matam was now started by Ali? 
Read my above post!
Btw, there have been muslims queens / warriors in history who fought for what they believed in so out goes your “women always stayed in home” theory!
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Imam Hussain never said that I am equal to Prophet Muhamad [s] but it was you who came up with this conclusion.
Every school has its own way to comemorate or celebrate incidents. If you do not concur with the way we commemorate then there is no need to object on it as this is not going to make any difference. Thats what i meant to say.
The answer is in bold.
Yeah i myself do not want to take the thread to yet another off-topic but the prediction of Holy Prophet [s] about the tragedy of Karbala and His [s] grief over the issue is recorded in the autentic sources of both schools .
I dont have all the sources at hand for the same but you cal surely search the net. But the weeping of Maula Ali [as] for Iam hussain [as] is recorded in this manner:
"Hadhrath 'Ali was making his way to Sifeen and stopped at Kerbala and asked ‘What is the name of this land?’ The people said 'this land is called Kerbala, upon hearing this he began to cry so profusely that the ground became wet with water.
Hadhrath Ali then said:
“Once I went to see the Holy Prophet (s) and saw tears flowing from his eyes, I asked him what upset him that caused such tears. His Excellency replied that no one had displeased him but Gabriel had just left him saying that Husayn would be martyred at the Euphrates. I then asked him if he should bring the sand of that place for him to smell, on that Gabriel presented a handful of sand when this happened he (s) couldn’t control himself and burst into tears.”
‘Sawaiqh al Muhriqa’ page 115
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
^
I did not say that he equted himself with Muhammad:saw:, read the original post again. It says
. It is very clear from these words what it means. Look he was not a prophet so obeying him cannot be deemed compulsory. It would have been sufficient to say “follow the sunnah”
Ok so they both cried…So where did the matam come from?
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
i think you still didnt get my objection. You had came up with the conclusion that the cited words of Imam Hyssain [as] seems to be inauthentic to you just because “according to you” those words equate Imam Hussain [as] to Holy Prophet [s]. Thats what i have been trying to say that its not the case and you have interpreted it incorrectly.
Since Prophet [s] instructed the ummah to adhere to Quran and Ahlulbayt [as] therefore the words of Imm Hussain [as] correctly matches with former. Therefore there shudnt be any objection.
As i slightly touched the topic earleir that matam i.e to hit the face/head/chest/thigh under severe grief is a natrual human reaction. Bibi Zainab [as] had hit her head to the bars when she saw the head of her brother Imam Husain [as]. Sarah the wife of Ibrahim [as] struck her head in grief when she was told the prediction of child. Like i also cited Ayesha after the death of Prophet [s] beat her face alongwith other woman. Maula Ali [as] when saw the bodies of his soldier during the war of sifeen hit her thighs etc etc.
The point i want to make here is that hitting oneself in grief is just a human reaction and its nothing like “where did it come from”. It will always be there where there is severe grief.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
How authentic do you think those history books are that portray those actions you just cited? Before you question me about ahadith, here is my view point. Any hadith that contradicts Quran or does not portray the same message maybe (in my case IS) considered not-authentic.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
so...did kaleem manage to post his favourite saying of Imam Husayn yet? C'mon there must be at least one in the multitude of volumes of shahihs and and other literature.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
^ Why is it important that I post my favorite saying of Hazrat Imam Hussain (r)? I can quote Muhammad:saw:, Hazrat Ali(r), Hazrat Abu Bakr(r), Hazrat Umer (r), Hazrat Usman (r) if you like.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Sahih Hadiths are collection of** rulings and Sunnah** of the prophet and are related to Islam and have nothing to do with Hazrat Hussain or events of Karbala. Maybe there are but as far as I know there are none.
Sunnis do not worship Hazrat Hussain or his father nor does our world revolve around Karbala. For a Muslims it is important to consider how the Prophet practiced Islam rather than wasting time on sad and unfortunate events that happened 1300 years ago... way way after Islam was revealed and completed.
Whatever Muslims of that time did is upon them and Allah will sort them out and not for us to make fuss of. What is important and look at ourselves and see if we are really as Muslim as Hazrat Hussain, his father and other close friends and sahabas of the Prophet (pbuh).
Allah is not going to ask you did you cry over Hazrat Hussain? Did you cut your self? Did you waste blood? Great people don't need our blood nor do they need our crying.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
No, I’d like a saying of Imam Husayn. From wherever you like. It is important to me. See my problem is not with you rejecting the sayings I have posted. My problem is not being able to understand why a guy who was important and crucial to Islam and early Islamic history - which even Sunnis believe - and yet
with not being able to come up with a record of saying or sermon of Imam Husayn from among the vast compendium of recorded history. Why’s that do you reckon?
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Jaan Leva Shahih's and other non-sahih's are all recorded history...all compiled many years after both the Prophet and event of Karbala. If we are to look for information - that usually seems a good place to start. In any event I do hope you're are not suggesting respecting Imam Husayn is in anyway unrelated to Islam or is against Prophetic sunnah?
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Here is one of the most important sermon/saying of his:
[QUOTE]
O' People, The Prophet of Islam has said that if a believer sees a tyrannical ruler transgressing against Allah and his Messenger and oppressing people, but does nothing by word or action to change the situation, then it will be just for God to place him where he deservingly belongs. Do you not see to what low level the affairs have come to, do you not observe that truth has not adhered and falsehood has no limits. And as for me, I look upon death but a means of attaining martyrdom. I consider life among the transgressors an agony and an affliction".
[/QUOTE]
I will leave it upto you to find out when and where he delivered this. :)
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Ulema have not commented on the authenticity of those traditions not being against Quran but if it sounds so to you then let it be, my job was to make you (and specialy others) to know the reason and concept of lamentation.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
a lot of false has been attributed not only to hussain (ra) but also to ali (ra), who is clearly much more important that him, and hence it was difficult to differentiate what was true and what was false and it has been left out…
second, hussain (ra) was a child when the Prophet (saw) died, and hence one does not expect him to narrate many ahadith…
and when he grew older, and perhaps reached the age of maturity, muslims had a lot of political drama to handle rather than recording sayings of important people…
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
Nobody worship Imam Hussain or his father but among some people the names of the members of Ahlylbayt [as] are not taken so frequently rather thier opponents are always found on their tounges therefore whenever they see people praising Ahlylbayt [as], it appears to them that its a worship but nevermind.
If recollecting an important incident happened hundred of years ago seems to be waste of time to you then i dont know what will you think of Holy book which have lots of incidents of past.
And this will only happen when we are aware of the lives of the aforsaid people and that is only possibile when we talk and disseminiate the actual message of those people but talking about the incident happened 1300 years back is useless to some people!
The jins and angels do what Allah [swt] commands them and it is recorded in authentc text that they also wept for Imm Hussain [as] which makes the wish of Allah [swt] quite clear to u but lets not enter into another debate.
pathetic. Why Holy Prophet [s] used to weep for his beloved people slained during wars? The incident of the martyrdom of Hazrat Jaffar Tayaar [ra] is known to all. Were the martyrs of islam not great? Its nothing about “they want our tears”.
Basically all it has to do with love and affection. The weeping of Holy Prophet [s] for his slained must have been understood by the muslims but infidels wudnt have given importance to those tears of Prophet [s] since they had no affection with Jaffar Tayarr [ra] hence could not understand the emotional feelings.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
no offense here but sometimes i think how people found much time during those “political dramas” to collect thousands and thousands of narrations from various people including blatant opponents of the family of Holy Prophet [s] but never found time to narrate things from a single pious and righteous of prophet’s own family.
Re: Sayings of Imam Husayn
well, one thing is that those various people were in the heart of the muslim world (i.e. madinah or makkah) whereas Ali (ra) and then his sons all moved away from the center towards iraq....
and not many followed them there to record their sayings....
and hence whatever is now available is mostly available throygh the same people who betrayed Ali (ra) and then Hussain (ra)....