Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

We have already suffered a lot in Afghanistan, I hope our leaders develop the guts to refuse the Saudis politely. We should focus on improving our country as compared to participating in thankless civil wars in other countries.

Saudi Arabia’s Shadow War - By David Kenner | Foreign Policy

The Kingdom is turning to Pakistan to train Syria’s rebels. It’s a partnership that once went very wrong in Afghanistan. Will history repeat itself?

BEIRUT — Saudi Arabia, having largely abandoned hope that the United States will spearhead international efforts to topple the Assad regime, is embarking on a major new effort to train Syrian rebel forces. And according to three sources with knowledge of the program, Riyadh has enlisted the help of Pakistani instructors to do it.

**Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, along with the CIA, also supported the Afghan rebels against the Soviet-backed government during the 1980s. That collaboration contains a cautionary note for the current day: The fractured Afghan rebels were unable to govern after the old regime fell, paving the way for chaos and the rise of the Taliban. Some of the insurgents, meanwhile, transformed into al Qaeda and eventually turned their weapons against their former patrons.
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**While the risk of blowback has been discussed in Riyadh, Saudis with knowledge of the training program describe it as an antidote to extremism, not a potential cause of it. They have described the kingdom’s effort as having two goals – toppling the Assad regime, and weakening al Qaeda-linked groups in the country. **Prince Turki, the former Saudi intelligence chief and envoy to Washington, said in a recent interview that the mainstream opposition must be strengthened so that it could protect itself “these extremists who are coming from all over the place” to impose their own ideologies on Syria.

The ramped up Saudi effort has been spurred by the kingdom’s disillusionment with the United States. A Saudi insider with knowledge of the program described how Riyadh had determined to move ahead with its plans after coming to the conclusion that President Barack Obama was simply not prepared to move aggressively to oust Assad. “We didn’t know if the Americans would give [support] or not, but nothing ever came through,” the source said. “Now we know the president just didn’t want it.”

**Pakistan’s role is so far relatively small, though another source with knowledge of Saudi thinking said that a plan was currently being debated to give Pakistan responsibility for training two rebel brigades, or around 5,000 to 10,000 fighters. Carnegie Middle East Center fellow Yezid Sayigh first noted the use of Pakistani instructors, writing that the Saudis were planning to build a Syrian rebel army of roughly 40,000 to 50,000 soldiers.
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“The only way Assad will think about giving up power is if he’s faced with the threat of a credible, armed force,” said the Saudi insider.

A State Department official declined to comment on the Saudi training program.

Saudi Arabia’s decision to move forward with training the Syrian rebels independent of the United States is the latest sign of a split between the two longtime allies. In Syria, Saudi officials were aggrieved by Washington’s decision to cancel a strike on the Assad regime in reprisal for its chemical weapons attack on the Damascus suburbs this summer. A top Saudi official told the Washington Post that Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan was unaware of the cancelation of the strike. “We found about it from CNN,” he said.

As a result, Saudi Arabia has given up on hopes that the United States would spearhead efforts to topple Assad and decided to press forward with its own plans to bolster rebel forces. That effort relies on a network of Saudi allies in addition to Pakistan, such as Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, and France.

As Sayigh laid out in his Carnegie paper, Saudi Arabia is attempting to build “a new national army” for the rebels – a force with an “avowedly Sunni ideology” that could seize influence from mainstream Syrian opposition groups. In addition to its training program in Jordan, Saudi Arabia also helped organize the unification of roughly 50 rebel brigades into “the Army of Islam” under the leadership of Zahran Alloush, a Salafist commander whose father is a cleric based in the kingdom.

**Given the increased Islamization of rebel forces on the ground, analysts say, it only makes sense that Saudi Arabia would throw its support behind Salafist groups. These militias “happen to be the most strategically powerful organizations on the ground,” said Charles Lister, an analyst with IHS Jane’s Terrorism and Insurgency Centre. “If Saudi Arabia does indeed follow such a strategy… it could well stand to become a major power player in the conflict.”
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**In calling on Pakistan to assist in toppling Assad, Saudi Arabia can draw on its deep alliance with Islamabad. The two countries have long shared defense ties: Saudi Arabia has given more aid to Pakistani than to any non-Arab country, according to former CIA officer Bruce Riedel, and also allegedly helped fund Islamabad’s nuclear program. In return, Pakistan based troops in Saudi Arabia multiple times over three decades to protect the royals’ grip on power.
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The current Pakistani government, in particular, is closely tied to Saudi Arabia. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was ousted from power in 1999 by a military coup - the Saudis allegedly brokered a deal that kept him from prison. Sharif would spend the next seven years in exile, mainly in Saudi Arabia. “For the Saudis, Sharif is a key partner in a key allied state,” said Arif Rafiq, an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute.

But despite close collaboration in the past, Saudi Arabia may find its old allies chafing at the sheer scope of its ambitions in Syria. One Pakistani source with close ties to military circles confirmed that Saudi Arabia had requested assistance on Syria over the summer – but argued that Pakistani capabilities and interests were not conducive to a sweeping effort to train the rebels.

**Pakistan is already grappling with its own sectarian bloodshed and must mind its relationship with Iran, while its foreign policy is focused on negotiations with the Taliban over the future of Afghanistan and its longtime rivalry with India. “They have their hands full,” the source said. “And even if they want to, I don’t think they’ll be able to give much concrete help.”
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**Jordan is also reportedly leery about fielding a large Syrian rebel army on its soil. The ambitious Saudi plan would require a level of support from Amman “that is opposed within the security and military establishment and is unlikely to be implemented,” according to Sayigh.
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As the Saudis expand their effort to topple Assad, analysts say the central challenge is not to inflict tactical losses on the Syrian army, but to organize a coherent force that can coordinate its actions across the country. In other words, if Riyadh hopes to succeed where others have failed, it needs to get the politics right – convincing the fragmented rebel groups, and their squabbling foreign patrons, to work together in pursuit of a shared goal.

It’s easier said than done. “The biggest problem facing the Saudis now is the same one facing the U.S., France, and anyone else interested in helping the rebels: the fragmentation of the rebels into groups fighting each other for local and regional dominance rather than cooperating to overthrow Assad,” said David Ottaway, a scholar at the Wilson Center who wrote a biography of Prince Bandar. “Could the Saudis force [the rebel groups] to cooperate? I have my doubts.”

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

First of all I dont think it would be wise for Pakistan to participate in a sectarian war. If Saudia and Iran have a beef they show fight it out directly instead of fighting proxy wars (like cowards) in other countries.

The current Saudi plan seems to give Jordan the role Pakistan played in the Afghan war. I hope sense prevails, any destabilization in Jordan would only hurt Saudia in the future.

Jordan is also reportedly leery about fielding a large Syrian rebel army on its soil. The ambitious Saudi plan would require a level of support from Amman "that is opposed within the security and military establishment and is unlikely to be implemented," according to Sayigh.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What the hell is wrong with Saudia Arabia. They just want to create havoc everywhere. Pakistan must never..participate in syrian war. We already have enemies we are fighting. I also think..and hope that Saudis asking Pakistanis for nuclear bomb. This would be suicide for Pakistan.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Salafi army? Ummm no thanks, Jose !

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Syria crisis: Saudi Arabia to spend millions to train new rebel force | World news | theguardian.com

**Saudi Arabia is preparing to spend millions of dollars to arm and train thousands of Syrian fighters in a new national rebel force to help defeat Bashar al-Assad and act as a counterweight to increasingly powerful jihadi organisations.
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Syrian, Arab and western sources say the intensifying Saudi effort is focused on Jaysh al-Islam (the Army of Islam or JAI), created in late September by a union of 43 Syrian groups. It is being billed as a significant new player on the fragmented rebel scene.

The force excludes al-Qaida affiliates such as the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra, but embraces more non-jihadi Islamist and Salafi units.
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According to one unconfirmed reportthe JAI will be trained with Pakistani help, and estimates of its likely strength range from 5,000 to more than 50,000. But diplomats and experts warned on Thursday that there are serious doubts about its prospects as well as fears of “blowback” by extremists returning from Syria.
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The Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, is also pressing the US to drop its objections to supplying anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles to the JAI.
Jordan is being urged to allow its territory to be used as a supply route into neighbouring Syria.

**In return, diplomats say, Riyadh is encouraging the JAI to accept the authority of the US and western-backed Supreme Military Council, led by Salim Idriss, and the Syrian Opposition Coalition.
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**“There are two wars in Syria,” said Mustafa Alani, an analyst for the Saudi-backed Gulf Research Centre. “One against the Syrian regime and one against al-Qaida. Saudi Arabia is fighting both.”
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Saudi Arabia has long called publicly for arming the anti-Assad rebels and has bridled at US caution. It has been playing a more assertive role since September’s US-Russian agreement on chemical weapons - which it saw as sparing the Syrian leader from US-led air strikes and granting him a degree of international rehabilitation.

The JAI is led by Zahran Alloush, a Salafi and formerly head of Liwa al-Islam, one of the most effective rebel fighting forces in the Damascus area.

**Alloush recently held talks with Bandar along with Saudi businessmen who are financing individual rebel brigades under the JAI’s banner. Other discreet coordinating meetings in Turkey have involved the Qatari foreign minister, Khaled al-Attiyeh, and the US envoy to Syria, Robert Ford.
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In one indication of its growing confidence – and resources – the JAI this week advertised online for experienced media professionals to promote its cause.

The appearance of an “Army of Muhammad” – with its equally obvious Islamic resonance – appears to be part of the same or related effort proposed by Syrian Sunni clerics to unite disparate rebel groups into a 100,000-strong force by March 2015.

It is too early, however, to see any impact of the Saudi move on the ground. “Militarily it’s not significant,” said one senior western official.

“I don’t see it producing any dramatic change yet. It’s a political step. These new rebel formations seem to be relabelling themselves and creating new leadership structures. It’s part of a quite parochial political game – and above all a competition for resources.”

But the Saudis are making an energetic case for their strategy – and playing on western anxieties. “The Saudis are saying that if you don’t join the fight against Assad you will end up with a much bigger jihadi problem,” said Emile Hokayem of the International Institute for Strategic Studies. “They are being a lot more proactive. That means taking the rebellion a lot more seriously and trying to develop as many proxies and allies as possible.”
Saudi assertiveness has grown along with unhappiness over US policy towards Syria and Iran, the kingdom’s regional rival. Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former Saudi intelligence chief, described Obama’s approach to Syria as “lamentable”.

Last month the Saudis cancelled their annual speech at the UN general assembly and turned down their first election to a security council seat in protest over the Syrian situation. The Saudis, like the Israelis, also fear a US “grand bargain” that leaves Iran free to develop nuclear weapons.

**Alani, echoing official Saudi views, warned of the risk from an emboldened al-Qaida unless more moderate forces prevailed in Syria. “Al-Qaida is getting stronger,” he said. “It is undermining the Syrian revolution and giving the US an argument for not supporting it. It will backfire against Saudi Arabia and the Gulf sooner or later – like what happened in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.”
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Other experts argue that the kingdom is taking risks by being so proactive, relying on funding and weapons for influence, concentrating on military pressure on Assad without developing a clear political strategy and focusing on strengthening groups with an overtly Sunni character.

**“The Saudi leadership should be careful what it creates in Syria,” Yezid Sayegh of the Carnegie Foundation warned in a recent commentary.“Muhammad’s Army may eventually come home to Mecca.”
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The effort also faces problems of capacity, coordination and delivery. “The Saudis and Qataris lack the means to shape insurgent groups,” suggested Thomas Pierret of Edinburgh University.

"They have a lot of money but very poor intelligence and human resources and organisational skills. They are very dependent on the western military. They are too used to having relationships with clients and using personal networks.’

“That’s why they’ve been forced to turn to Syrian groups which already have military credibility. They are becoming less selective and more realistic and putting aside their reservations about who they support. But I doubt they are able to unify the whole thing. The Saudis say ‘you should unite and we will give you money.’ But some will end up getting more money than others and the coalition will break apart.”

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Pakistan's armed forces have to grow some cojones and wage a war on all terrorists in Pakistan (this should be top priority not meddling in Syria's affairs). I am very disappointed with General Kiyani as he did nothing to eliminate Talibs in his tenure and i am glad he is retiring. I hope the incoming Chief of Army staff has better vision and determination to rid Pakistan of terrorists. If action is taken by Pakistan's own forces then everyone in Pakistan wouldn't have to worry about predator drone strikes.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What would be the difference between alqaeda and this purported saudi salafi army? I guess that they would be pitthoos of the saudis like the egyptian salafis who were the major supporters of 5 year old wives etc but were the first to back from MB coalition when the saudis gave a hint. I know Turkey doesn't want the hassle but I would rather have them set up such an army if it were to happen in an extreme situation.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Turkey already set up an army with the help of the US and NATO. Its currently called Al Qaeda in Syria and IraQ.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Pakistan should definitely train another set of rebels and treat them as strategic assets ala 1986 and pay the price 22 years later. Brilliant plan Saudi. Fight your own war plz.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

A Pakistani general once said that "Pakistan was used by the Americans to fight the Russians in Afghanistan".

I guess now the Saudis want to use Pakistan the same way.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

All this hassle and spending millions and billions of dollars ... and still keeping the fingers crossed to get an outcome of your liking.

Was Assad really THAT bad?? Was this price worth paying to create anarchy and cause deaths of thousands and thousands of people?
That is the question Saudis need to ponder.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Assad brought it on himself by not budging and firing on protestors. Perhaps it was kiyani, though I doubt it, but look at how Musharraf phased out instead of dropping bodies of lawyers in Islamabad.

If Iran is so pro-democracy in the wider arab world, then it should push for the same in Syria. Either put up or shut up!

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Assad is a dictator by himself. He is not controlled by Iran. He can’t be persuaded to become democratic and give up power. If he does it then he won’t be a dictator.

It was not the first time that Assad and his coterie had tried to stop dissent. There were demonstrations in the beginning and Assad had agreed to give in to some of the demands of demonstrators. He agreed to end emergency rule and allow political parties to be formed, for example. But on insistence and promises from Saudis and Qataris, the opposition started asking for Assad’s head. They overlooked what kind of brutal dictator his father was and he is.

When extremists from around the world started gathering in Syria then it became a war of survival. There were many Alawis who were pro-democracy, joining in demonstrations, and wanting Assad’s resignation. But when it became a war of survival then they knew that losing the war would mean death for Alawis at the hands of extremists being supported by Saudis.

SOME OF THE REFORMS SUGGESTED BY ASSAD IN THE BEGINNING, BUT REJECTED BY OPPOSTION DUE TO SAUDI PROMISES:

20 June 2011
In his first public address in two months, the president called for a national dialogue and suggested the Ba’ath party, which has had a pervasive presence in Syrian affairs since 1963, would play a diminished role.

http://iwpr.net/report-news/will-assad-concessions-defuse-revolt
18 Apr 11
After signaling last week that** he would release almost 100 prisoners** detained during protests, Assad addressed the nation on Saturday, April 16, with a promise to lift the widely-reviled emergency law, which has been in place since 1963. In addition to this major concession, the president also stated that a timetable would be implemented to address other key demands by protesters, including** laws regulating the Baath party’s ruling monopoly, media freedoms and public demonstrations**.

These proposals come after a series of other measures were taken by the regime over the last month to ease tensions, among them the lifting of a ban on the niqab face veil in schools and the closure of the country’s only casino – reforms long demanded by the country’s vocal Sunni-majority conservatives; and the granting of long-delayed citizenship and residency rights to Syria’s sizeable Kurdish minority, concentrated in the Hasaka region.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

A worthy cause no doubt. But all Pakistan has to offer is advice on what not to do.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

How about the Saudis train the army on their own soil. Most of their country is just empty desert. How about they take in some Syrian refugees and populate the country; thus using the over-abundant petro-dollars on their own soil instead of using them to fight proxy wars in other countries and leaving said countries with all the problems. It would be nice if they imported some of those problems to their own country.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Do saudis even train themselves?

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

hahahaa..
I guess they have outsourced their security duties..to their allies..

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Saudi Arabia only seems to be interested in maintaining its influence on the broader Muslim population. I really can't see why Pakistan should risk its own security for the sake of Saudi pride.

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What Saudis are doing is nothing short of act of war in Syria. Can you imagine the outroar in the Muslim world if Syria did the same or if they retaliated?

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Saudis are allowed to do anything since they have money and happen to be the custodians of the holiest places of Islam. But Pakistan must not play gladiator and become a part of the dirty game some Middle Eastern countries are playing in Syria to safeguard their interests. We already have our plate full and let there not be anymore stake holders in Pakistani affairs.