Saudi clerics plead for hostage

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
Matty, may be I am slow, run it by me again. I still do not understand your logic. Did you want the Imam to congratulate these terrorists so every one will have more ammo against Islam? Maybe, it was a stupid question from Irem, but the fact of the matter is, short of going out and finding these cowards, and activley participating in uprroting these bas$$$, he could not have done more.
You cannot argue from both sides, because I have seen posts from other members here who argue that even the Imams sanction terrorists behavior and now that one has denounced it, you want to nullify it. Nice logic.
[/QUOTE]

Kaleem yaar, I a questioning this mullah's chutiyapana where from one side of his mouth he is suggesting killing for unsanctioned reasons is wrong and from the other side sugesting a grave sin like being a hindu and a buddhist. Now tomorrow, someone can go kill a few hindus and buddhists because this chutiya maulvi has deemed them sinners. Considering the penchant of sunni terrorists around the world right now at blowing up innocents, he is practically sancitoning someone to do it.

Religious scerics need to keep their traps shut and promote tolerance, this ahole couldn't even get that bit right. Not surprised because any responsibility or shunning of terrorist activities is new to these clowns.

42

this topic has 3 threads in 2 forums religion and world they shold be merged into 1.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *

Kaleem yaar, I a questioning this mullah's chutiyapana where from one side of his mouth he is suggesting killing for unsanctioned reasons is wrong and from the other side sugesting a grave sin like being a hindu and a buddhist. Now tomorrow, someone can go kill a few hindus and buddhists because this chutiya maulvi has deemed them sinners. Considering the penchant of sunni terrorists around the world right now at blowing up innocents, he is practically sancitoning someone to do it.

Religious scerics need to keep their traps shut and promote tolerance, this ahole couldn't even get that bit right. Not surprised because any responsibility or shunning of terrorist activities is new to these clowns.
[/QUOTE]

Polytheism is a grave sin in Abrahimic faiths. Get over it. You dont like that, you have a bone to pick with the majority of the planet then.

It does not sanction anything more though. There is no basis in Islam for renegade, self appointed punishment of sinners, since everyone has his sin before him, and one may repent at any point in his life. Especially in the case of Polytheism, most of the Muslims Muslims revere today were polytheists before turning to Islam.

44

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
this topic has 3 threads in 2 forums religion and world they shold be merged into 1.
[/QUOTE]

abu ghraib had 15 threads about it. lets not brush things under the rug.

45

Re: Saudi clerics plead for hostage

huh…saudis alims malvis r ORPHAN…they cannot even pass just 1 word against americans jews..hahaha…just hate these saudi malvis..they r cowards..y they dont say similar when thousands muslims kill..coward malvis

46

The man's death was a logical reciprocation of his deeds, i.e. he built and worked on Apache helicopters which killed innocent Muslim women children in their homes in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine...

If a person like Sheikh Yassin, who was a paraplegic and couldn't lift a finger to shoo a fly away can be assassinated by an Apache helicopter for merely speaking his mind, why shouldn't this man have been killed for actually creating weapons which are used against Muslims? After all, what did Shaikh Yassin do? He just spoke, that is all...

And anyways, America has now decided that there will be no discussions with 'terrorists' and all of them will face persecution without ever having their grievances heard, their anger addressed and their voice to be spoken, then it's clear that America is not willing to solve this problem...For after all, problems are not solved by violence, they are solved by dialogue...America has cut off all dialogues with these people and has resorted to outright violence, then these things will become so common that Americans will have no place to be except inside America itself...

BTW, for all the people here who are so indigninant at this cleric's equating murder with polytheism, I didn't see any form of indignation from them when a crippled old man was blasted to bits by a missile...It all shows the hypocrisy they hold in their hearts...Happy at the deaths of thousands of Muslims and shouts of murder if one American dies...What kind of an idiot can't see through this jaundiced American vision of decadent and diseased humanity?

Time was when Americans were looked upon as leaders of the free world and upholders of peace...Now, American misfortune will draw no tear from any world citizen with even a slight semblance of what justice is...That excludes American lap dogs...

47

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *

Polytheism is a grave sin in Abrahimic faiths. Get over it. You dont like that, you have a bone to pick with the majority of the planet then.

It does not sanction anything more though. There is no basis in Islam for renegade, self appointed punishment of sinners, since everyone has his sin before him, and one may repent at any point in his life. Especially in the case of Polytheism, most of the Muslims Muslims revere today were polytheists before turning to Islam.
[/QUOTE]

so techincally ghandi a polythiest according to scriptures worse than the individual
who beheads innocent human being?

48

SHUT UP Y'ALL SHRIK IS THE GRAVEST SIN ONE CAN COMMIT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT WE ARE SETTING UP PARTNERS IN WORSHIP WITH GOD ALMIGHTY AND BY THE WAY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLYTHEISM IT DOESNT NECESSARILY MEAN "HINDUS" NOW A DAYS MUCH OF MUSLIMS ARE ALSO INVOLVED IN POLYTHEISM

AND BY THE WAY FOR ALL OF YOU PPLS INFORMATION......

IF U RESEARCH ORIGINAL HINDU TEXT .....HINDUISM IS ALSO BASED ON "MONOTHEISM" HAH!!! (see tlks by DR. ZAKIR NAIK)........HENCE THERE IS NO ATTTACK ON 2 BILLION PPL BECUZ WE CAN NOT SAY THT WE R INSULTING HINDUS BECUZ THEIR VERY OWN SCRIPTURE STRESS ONE "GOD" BUT THEIR FAITH HAS BEEN ADULTEREATED....

AND BY THE WAY SAYING POLYTHEISM IS THE BIGGEST SIN IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH QURAN AND SUNNAH AND RATIONAL HUMAN MIND

49

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
The man's death was a logical reciprocation of his deeds, i.e. he built and worked on Apache helicopters which killed innocent Muslim women children in their homes in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine...

If a person like Sheikh Yassin, who was a paraplegic and couldn't lift a finger to shoo a fly away can be assassinated by an Apache helicopter for merely speaking his mind, why shouldn't this man have been killed for actually creating weapons which are used against Muslims? After all, what did Shaikh Yassin do? He just spoke, that is all...

And anyways, America has now decided that there will be no discussions with 'terrorists' and all of them will face persecution without ever having their grievances heard, their anger addressed and their voice to be spoken, then it's clear that America is not willing to solve this problem...For after all, problems are not solved by violence, they are solved by dialogue...America has cut off all dialogues with these people and has resorted to outright violence, then these things will become so common that Americans will have no place to be except inside America itself...

BTW, for all the people here who are so indigninant at this cleric's equating murder with polytheism, I didn't see any form of indignation from them when a crippled old man was blasted to bits by a missile...It all shows the hypocrisy they hold in their hearts...Happy at the deaths of thousands of Muslims and shouts of murder if one American dies...What kind of an idiot can't see through this jaundiced American vision of decadent and diseased humanity?

Time was when Americans were looked upon as leaders of the free world and upholders of peace...Now, American misfortune will draw no tear from any world citizen with even a slight semblance of what justice is...That excludes American lap dogs...
[/QUOTE]

fantastic replyy......tum nay waqi mein lajawab kar diya...u r exactly right....millions of muslims have beeen killed by americans..americans even used smart bombs on populated area ..tht bomb destroys everything in 500 meters..so 1 think how much americans have been destructed towards islam and muslims..look isreal,every second isreal killing is teen ager but any NGO OR UN dont have to say anything...isreal have killed 4000 muslims since 2000.....houses have been destructed.....sheikh yassin dead pics were on my foreaid mailll....his head was cut off ..hands were torned into pieces...wht left in his body???..al qeada is doing right by killing americans in saudia(might be it is haram)...americans r stealing resources...its payback time....thts all...these saudia malvis r coward...they canoot even say 1 word against america or isreal..huh...

50

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by HILAL K: *
**SHUT UP Y'ALL SHRIK IS THE GRAVEST SIN ONE CAN COMMIT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT WE ARE SETTING UP PARTNERS IN WORSHIP WITH GOD ALMIGHTY AND BY THE WAY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLYTHEISM IT DOESNT NECESSARILY MEAN "HINDUS" NOW A DAYS MUCH OF MUSLIMS ARE ALSO INVOLVED IN POLYTHEISM*

AND BY THE WAY FOR ALL OF YOU PPLS INFORMATION......

IF U RESEARCH ORIGINAL HINDU TEXT .....HINDUISM IS ALSO BASED ON "MONOTHEISM" HAH!!! (see tlks by DR. ZAKIR NAIK)........HENCE THERE IS NO ATTTACK ON 2 BILLION PPL BECUZ WE CAN NOT SAY THT WE R INSULTING HINDUS BECUZ THEIR VERY OWN SCRIPTURE STRESS ONE "GOD" BUT THEIR FAITH HAS BEEN ADULTEREATED....

AND BY THE WAY SAYING POLYTHEISM IS THE BIGGEST SIN IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH QURAN AND SUNNAH AND RATIONAL HUMAN MIND
[/QUOTE]

forget about polythiest why quran says

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

51

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

forget about polythiest why quran says

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[/QUOTE]

then loook around urself...every thing proving the words of quran is not tht???....jews and christ can neva be our friends...and history proves tht

52

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *

Polytheism is a grave sin in Abrahimic faiths. Get over it. You dont like that, you have a bone to pick with the majority of the planet then.

It does not sanction anything more though. There is no basis in Islam for renegade, self appointed punishment of sinners, since everyone has his sin before him, and one may repent at any point in his life. Especially in the case of Polytheism, most of the Muslims Muslims revere today were polytheists before turning to Islam.
[/QUOTE]

SOunds all lovey dovey but the reality is that you have groups who use islamic tenets to kill innocents around the world. Now either someone needs to fix these tenets or someone needs to clean up this vermin from within. Or if you are not going to clean up this vermin, then don;t cry foul when others do it to prrotect themselves.

Hilal, you are right. Hinduism believes in oneness of god, muslims are hindu my friend. Just another sect.

53

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *

SOunds all lovey dovey but the reality is that you have groups who use islamic tenets to kill innocents around the world. Now either someone needs to fix these tenets or someone needs to clean up this vermin from within.

[/quote]

that be as it may is completely irrelevant of the cleric's statement, which was specific and unjustifiedly criticised by you and everyone who jumped on the bandwagon.

the guy issued a specific, pointed statement towards the hijackers. issuing a statement about his current worldview and the questionability of jihad and the conditions under which it can be applied vis a vis the current global situation might have risked losing the focus a bit.

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**Lajawab ** - You must keep in mind that this American’s blood is more precious that than tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis who have been killed by these very helicopters and nobody is even keeping the count. But then, does it really matter against this unfortunate American.

You talk about Sheikh Yassin who ** “was a paraplegic and couldn’t lift a finger to shoo a fly away can be assassinated by an Apache helicopter for merely speaking his mind”, ** do you really think that it really matters to people here?

Americans just got busy with the same helicopters just a few hours ago. Don’t wait for any uproar.

*"Some accused the Americans of trying to inflict maximum damage by firing two missiles in succession.

“The number of casualties is so high because after the first missile we jumped to rescue the victims,” Wissam Ali Hamad told AP news agency.

“The second missile killed those trying to carry out the rescue.”

Residents said at least 20 bodies had been taken for burial. *

But the circumstances of the attack are unclear, with some residents saying it was a helicopter attack and others saying a plane fired the missiles."

As for the Saudi Sheikhs, just are just parroting what they are told to say at the appropriate time otherwise Saudi Arabia too has its own Abu Ghuraibs.

Killing someone with a knife must be primitive; whereas blowing up the whole house with people in it using Apache helicopters must be civilised method of bringing about a carnage.

Anyway good post.

55

You're defending the indefensible here Lajawab. Bottom line is that an innocent person was killed for crimes he did not commit.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
The man's death was a logical reciprocation of his deeds, i.e. he built and worked on Apache helicopters which killed innocent Muslim women children in their homes in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine...

[/quote]

Apache helicopters are fuelled by Muslim oil. Perhaps you should pick up a random Muslim (edit: on an oil rig if you must be picky) and behead him for killing childen in Palestine? Heck most foreign muslim students in america research on military applications, I think you should stand outside the airport and make sure your razor is nice and sharp.

[quote]

If a person like Sheikh Yassin, who was a paraplegic and couldn't lift a finger to shoo a fly away can be assassinated by an Apache helicopter for merely speaking his mind, why shouldn't this man have been killed for actually creating weapons which are used against Muslims? After all, what did Shaikh Yassin do? He just spoke, that is all...

[/quote]

What kind of person who believes in Islam, seeks moral justification in the actions of Israel? You just cannot reduce yourself, as a Muslim representing Islam, to justifying a heinous act and basing its justification on another crime.

[quote]

And anyways, America has now decided that there will be no discussions with 'terrorists' and all of them will face persecution without ever having their grievances heard, their anger addressed and their voice to be spoken, then it's clear that America is not willing to solve this problem...For after all, problems are not solved by violence, they are solved by dialogue...America has cut off all dialogues with these people and has resorted to outright violence, then these things will become so common that Americans will have no place to be except inside America itself...

[/quote]

the entire onus of dialogue does not lie with America. Furthermore the most direct way to initiate dialogue is not through beheading people.

[quote]

BTW, for all the people here who are so indigninant at this cleric's equating murder with polytheism, I didn't see any form of indignation from them when a crippled old man was blasted to bits by a missile...It all shows the hypocrisy they hold in their hearts...Happy at the deaths of thousands of Muslims and shouts of murder if one American dies...What kind of an idiot can't see through this jaundiced American vision of decadent and diseased humanity?

[/quote]

The least you can do when expressing disgust at what you describe above is then to avoid the very legitimate question of hypocrisy by veritably gloating at our own camp's bestiality.

The man was innocent of harming anyone directly. There is ABSOULTELY no islamic justification for this. It is a crime, against a Muslim state, and an innocent man. I saw his family on telivision, and they were just as concerned as your mother would have been.

[quote]

Time was when Americans were looked upon as leaders of the free world and upholders of peace...Now, American misfortune will draw no tear from any world citizen with even a slight semblance of what justice is...That excludes American lap dogs...
[/QUOTE]

hot wind.

56

Sorry for my late reply.

i will reply at ease on Monday or Tuesday, Insha'Allah, to the numerous points that have been raised in this thread. Thanks to all those who shared their thoughts, including MehnazQ and Ravage...and others. Thanks. Please give me a few days and i will respond in detail then, Insha'Allah.

57

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
You're defending the indefensible here Lajawab. Bottom line is that an innocent person was killed for crimes he did not commit.

Apache helicopters are fuelled by Muslim oil. Perhaps you should pick up a random Muslim (edit: on an oil rig if you must be picky) and behead him for killing childen in Palestine? Heck most foreign muslim students in america research on military applications, I think you should stand outside the airport and make sure your razor is nice and sharp.

What kind of person who believes in Islam, seeks moral justification in the actions of Israel? You just cannot reduce yourself, as a Muslim representing Islam, to justifying a heinous act and basing its justification on another crime.

the entire onus of dialogue does not lie with America. Furthermore the most direct way to initiate dialogue is not through beheading people.

The least you can do when expressing disgust at what you describe above is then to avoid the very legitimate question of hypocrisy by veritably gloating at our own camp's bestiality.

The man was innocent of harming anyone directly. There is ABSOULTELY no islamic justification for this. It is a crime, against a Muslim state, and an innocent man. I saw his family on telivision, and they were just as concerned as your mother would have been.

hot wind.
[/QUOTE]

ravage,another american born confused pakistani..huh..really dont no y u people dont shout on the killing of thousands of muslims..just check out newspaper and tell me how many muslims kill every day.....suicide attacks on isrealis r totally halal..thts alll...isreal has killed thousands,their whole public supoorts their deadly policy...their population involves in muslim area destruction....whole land belongs to palestine thts al..kill bloody jews..tht must be the rule of muslims..abt tht recently al qeada hunt...these things will happen till america does not leave his policies against muslims....the only way muslims can save them is jahad and proper education...thts alll..jews and chrits can neva be over friend

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
OK Nadia. Let's try this one out for size. I'm really going out on a limb here. Regarding what occured at Al Ghraib, I'll acknowledge that it was as bad as polytheism.

I know that admission will pacify you. You wouldn't require me to say anything more would you?
[/QUOTE]

ok I didnt read past this post on the first page... but i,m sure there must be people ridiculing the comparisons etc... and heated debates would be going on etc...

for you all who fail to understand this...

Polytheism is the biggest SIN in Islam... called shirk...

the clerics were saying all this at a friday sermon.... i.e speaking to all the "muslim" worshippers at the mosque.... telling them that killing some innocent is as bad as shirk or the biggest sin in islam.... If i was there, i,d register it as being the worst crime one can commit.... sooo whats so wrong with equating the killings to the wrost crime possible by a muslim?

he wasnt directing his statement to all of you "yanks" who think polytheism isnt a big deal...

why do u all have to criticise just for the sake of criticising? dont just read whats written there and translate it on paper and go hay whats this? this is silly! ofcourse its silly to u,, but he aint talking to u! for the people hes talking to or addressing,, it aint silly at all.... try and understand the context.

i cant believe how naive some people are.. and these are the so called "educated" ones. imagine what an average american on the street would look at it as...

59

Thanks, Kaka :k: Good grief, that’s what i was trying to say. Thanks yaar. i really appreciate that. Your level-headedness is a credit to you, Masha’Allah.

Rest i will respond to in a couple days’ time Insha’Allah.

60

HEY MATSUI MUSLIMS R NOT HINDUS BUT RATHER MUWAHIDUN

BUT HINDUS R those whoe have deviated.....

and by the way the clerics condemned the killing of the american HOSTAGE rightfully.........if america is killing innocent ppl tht doesnt mean tht muslims shuold retaliate withe same brutality by taking INNOCENT lives.....ALLAH ta'la says taking away one life (unlawfully) is like killing all humanity.........