Saudi clerics plead for hostage

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

With reports just coming in that he may have been beheaded, the words of the two Saudi clerics obviously did not make much of a significant impact with the hostage takers. But his words nevertheless are instrumental and should have been heeded by those who call themselves Muslims who carried out this act.

Saudi cleric pleads for hostage, BBC, 18 June 2004

A prominent Saudi cleric has joined in calls to spare the life of a US hostage in Saudi Arabia as the deadline set by his captors to kill him looms.

Paul Johnson, 49, was seized in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, last Saturday.

The group said on Tuesday he would be killed within 72 hours if al-Qaeda members in Saudi jails were not freed.

**Sheikh Saleh bin Abdullah bin Humaid told worshippers at the Great Mosque in Mecca on Friday that hostage-taking and murder were grave sins under Islam.

“Killing a soul without justification is one of the gravest sins under Islam, it is as bad as polytheism,” the state-appointed cleric said at Islam’s holiest shrine.

“Whoever kills any person under our protection will not go to heaven. The blood of people under our protection is forbidden… they are on a par with Muslims,” he added.**

Saudi authorities stepped up their search for Mr Johnson on Friday.

Several thousand Saudi officers swept through Riyadh, going from door to door in some areas. The desert outskirts of the city were also being searched.

Mr Johnson’s Thai wife, Thanom, pleaded for his release on Arabic TV. “I want him to come back to me… He didn’t do anything wrong,” she told the Saudi-owned al-Arabiya satellite channel.

**Another leading Saudi cleric, preacher of the capital’s Imam Sultana Mosque, urged the kidnappers to release their hostage in an article in the al-Riyadh newspaper on Friday.

They had “trodden the wrong path” and should “come back to the fold of the community of Islam”, Sheikh Mohammed bin Saad al-Saeed wrote.**

Amid concern over Mr Johnson’s fate, the US state department repeated its advice to US citizens to leave after a series of attacks in the kingdom, where three Westerners were killed within a week.

There was credible information that extremists were planning further action against US and Western interests, the department said.

…]

2

This is exactly the reason why the whole place is doomed for hell. When an Imam equates Polytheism with Murder it not only shows how deeply confused and mentally ill he is, and when he says that the blood of people under our protection is forbidden, he is making an ass out of himself.

However, given the backward state of that region, it is perhaps not a bad gesture on his part. But what would really make a bigger dent is when many Saudi men and women will take to streets to demonstrate against the terrorists and Islamic fanatics.

Keep mosques and sermons out of this madness.

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"With reports just coming in that he may have been beheaded, the words of the two Saudi clerics obviously did not make much of a significant impact with the hostage takers. But his words nevertheless are instrumental and should have been heeded by those who call themselves Muslims who carried out this act."

The time to speak out against Al-Qaedda was two years ago. Instead we had long winded lectures on the "root-causes".

Too little too late.

Muslim Extremism is a boulder rolling down a long hill. It has a life and momentum of it's own. The highjacking of a religion is now in full swing.

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[quote]
The highjacking of a religion is now in full swing.
[/quote]

That is debatable.

i really don't want to get into an argument with you, particularly in such a thread because it will leave a bad taste in my mouth.

i just want to make the point - their words are a positive gesture at such a time. It makes more of a symbolic point since they are Saudi clerics. Maybe it's too little too late for you. The vast majority of Muslims have been speaking out ever since the acts on 11th September. They will continue to speak out. But acknowledge their voices too, however feebly they may speak because ignoring the majority who are opposed to such acts, will always prevent all parties in this issue from reaching common ground.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Too little too late.

Muslim Extremism is a boulder rolling down a long hill. It has a life and momentum of it's own. The highjacking of a religion is now in full swing.
[/QUOTE]

dang it :( I guess i best get meself a bomb now cuz its too late to be a muslim and not be an extremist sigh :P

P.S. thats a chocolate bomb y'all..

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Ever read up on epidemiology?

The window for containing a disease is very small. Once it starts to grow, it reaches a point where it is uncontrollable, and simply has to progress until it burns out.

Funny, nobody gets worried about Madrid, Bali, Turkey, Daniel Pearl, but seeing beheadings streamed over the internet sure let's us see who we are dealing with.

The wringing of hands at this point is far too little too late....

And Fraudz, your extemist application would be rejected at the first sight of your "Blue Panther" image. Most warriors avoid cartoon characters....

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Then i guess it would have been better if they had said nothing at all. Then they'd still get damned.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Madhanee:
The same phrase jumped out at me too.

** "“Killing a soul without justification is one of the gravest sins under Islam, it is as bad as polytheism,” the state-appointed cleric said at Islam’s holiest shrine. " **

Beheading a guy is viewed by the state-appointed cleric as being ** as bad as ** polytheism??? :konfused:

My G*d !!! Give me a break. No wonder these guys feel free to behead innocent people. It’s probably as bad as coveting thy neighbors wife too. Or, not honoring your mother and father.

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i don't know what you guys want, honestly. These two clerics came out and explicitly criticized the beheading, with no mention of "root causes" which i'm sure you'll hear about on gupshup - including from ppl like me. The clerics didn't mention a word of that. Still you guys aren't satisfied. What do you guys want ? confused

The situation in the Middle East, to put it very mildly, is very inflammatory especially subsequent to the daily carnage occurring in Iraq and more recently the unspeakably stomach-churning filth that came out from Al Ghraib prison. These clerics still spoke out, publically, explicitly, with no apologies or conditions attached to their statements.

What more do you guys want? If you don't have the guts to applaud the actions of these moderate clerics, then let's have the radicals back calling the shots - shall we?

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I'm with you on this one Nadia. I'm glad clerics are starting to speak out. It's better than inciting violence, wouldn't you say? If anything, it's a step forward rather than backwards.

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Thanks, Mehnaz. :flower1: i mean honestly - they came out and they’ve been more critical of this act than people on gupshup will be. And that includes ME. i would have mentioned some crap about root causes and all that. They didn’t even do that in their public statements - and these are SAUDI clerics of all individuals.

i mean - come on. Let’s give credit where it’s due. That - or hey, we can have the radical clerics back. They get more attention.

What do people want, i mean seriously.

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OK Nadia. Let's try this one out for size. I'm really going out on a limb here. Regarding what occured at Al Ghraib, I'll acknowledge that it was as bad as polytheism.

I know that admission will pacify you. You wouldn't require me to say anything more would you?

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i don't care how you describe it. Just acknowledge that what happened at Al Ghraib was bad, wrong, etc. You can compare it to any other thing you want that, in your honest opinion, would be a similar act of evil. Go ahead. Just acknowledge that both things are wrong.

i'm easy with that. i don't see what the big deal is if someone said what happened at Al Ghraib is as bad as polytheism. That's their opinion. i don't have to agree with it. i am easy with it because and only because i realize that they still believe what happened at Al Ghraib was absolutely undeniably wrong from every angle. Excellent. i am able to live with that.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
i
The situation in the Middle East, to put it very mildly, is very inflammatory especially subsequent to the daily carnage occurring in Iraq and more recently the unspeakably stomach-churning filth that came out from Al Ghraib prison. These clerics still spoke out, publically, explicitly, with no apologies or conditions attached to their statements.

[/QUOTE]
Nadia, this follows the same pattern. Terrorists murdering innocent Iraqis ocuring on a daily basis and preventing the country from progressing is referred to as simply "carnage", yet naked pyramid building (that has stopped and is being investigated and people prosecuted) receives the much more stern condemnation of "unspeakably stomach-churning filth". It's about degrees.

But I agree this is a huge step forward for the clerics and I applaud it. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

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Nadia, #1 – terrorism is terrorism, and the Imam’s equating it to Polytheism is making a joke out of such a horrendous act. He is implying that Polytheists are as bad as Terrorists (if not worse). #2, by giving a religious reasons for why an act is horrific, he is inadvertently sanctioning similar acts for people that are “not under their protection”. He is implying that it is OK to behead a German living in China.

All he had to do was to say that Terrorism in any way shape or form, directed towards anyone anywhere is totally against the teachings of our Faith. But instead the idiot had to bring Polytheism and concept of Protection into all of this. Then some people get all uptight if Islam is discussed in that context. It is because of stupid Imams like that.

You might be right that damned if I do and damned if I don’t. But in this instance, I really think that it would have been better if he had kept his mouth shut instead of making a joke of our faith.

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"These two clerics came out "

Golly, TWO? Wake me when it reaches two million.

"I'm glad clerics are *starting * to speak out."

Nice of them to start. About two years too late.

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Better late than never Ohioguy! Or perhaps these two clerics should just keep their mouths shut and let those who incite hatred and attacking non-Muslims keep preaching and speak louder than ever.

I'm hoping this will give more maulvis courage to speak out against such atrocities.

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^ I agree with that sentiment. Two is better than none. And late is better than never.

I'm still a little unnerved by the cleric's statement though. I just don't get the feeling this is a real denunciation. Beheading versus Polytheism. Hmmm.... which is worse.

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Seminole, Thanks man. :flower1: That’s all i’m looking for, i’m not asking for a pot of gold. Just some acknowledgement that yeah - okay, two clerics came out and said something positive with no wishywashy root-causes/core reasons blah blah bs that you will read about from ME on gupshup. Thanks. That’s all i wanted. Just like you guys want more Muslims to come out and audibly criticize all this crap, when some one does that, i also want some reciprocity. Give and take - that’s how any of us can reach common ground in this insane world we call our home. (Beware the hippy talk now).

Regarding the issue of degrees - i acknowledge your point and it is a valid one.

Madhanee, Okay, your post is rational and i appreciate that. At least you did give some credit to them in your initial reply.

OG, Fine. Have it your way. You can wait another two years for two more moderate bozos to speak out. In the meantime, we’ll be treated to fiery bearded faces who will talk about how to reach heaven by killing all the “infidels”. Then i will have to read comments from everyone about how “no Muslim” is speaking out against this. Then when someone does speak out, it’s not enough, it’s too late, where were you before, why didn’t you speak out more, why did you frame your comments in this manner and not in this manner ecetera ecetera.

We end up radicalizing the other side.

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Nadia, this is no doubt a positive step, but there is no denying that it is a small and a long time coming. We've heard or read of literally hundreds of clerics preaching 'death to the infidels' and madrassahs being set up around the world to teach the same to children. So it is not without some skepticism and exasperation when Saudi clergy finally states the obvious, that this kind of activity is against Islam. You have to admit whenever someone tries to give kudos to the US for actions that are humane and/or in the best interest of the Iraqis, it is always followed up with "too little, too late, yeah, but..."