Sati in Bihar, India

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

This thread is leading nowhere and the time has come for it to be closed.

Dekho bhai, sati is banned by law in India…everyone criticizes it, including me…unfortunately it occurs once in a crimson-moon in some remote village of India…it is a highly condemnable practice…so condemnable that even the “great” Aurangzeb mumbled something against it and this was his greatest contribution to humanity…blah blah blah…

I can post articles like these on Honour killings, honour rapes, in Pakistan, and on the first page og google I found this from BBC World May 2, 2005:

Pakistan rejects pro-women bill

The Pakistan government has allied with Islamists to reject a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of “honour killing”.

The parliament rejected the bill by a majority vote on Tuesday, declaring it to be un-Islamic.

Honour killing is the name given to murders where the offender claims the victim, usually a woman, had brought his family into disrepute.

The bill was rejected after being declared un-Islamic by a majority vote.
{Mashallah !}

“Karo-kari”

Under the so-called Islamic legislation enacted by General Zia ul Haq, Pakistan’s Islamist military ruler in the 1980s, proven killers could seek or buy pardon from the victim’s family under the Islamic principles of compromise.

Observers say Islamists still wield influence in parliament

The law has remained essentially unchanged since then.

Observers say that it has been grossly misused and has contributed directly to an alarming increase in the practice of “karo-kari” or the so-called honour killings.

*Karo-kari is a tradition whereby a man can kill a woman, claiming that she brought dishonour to the family, and still expect to be pardoned by her relatives.

Once such a pardon has been secured, the state has no further writ on the matter. *

Human rights agencies in Pakistan have repeatedly emphasised that most women falling prey to karo-kari were usually those wanting to marry of their own will.

Islamists have an uneasy relationship with the government

In many cases, the victims held properties that the male members of their families did not wish to lose if the women chose to marry outside the family.

Government and independent researchers estimate that over 4,000 women have fallen victim to this practice in Pakistan over the last six years.

In December last year, the government passed a bill making karo-kari punishable under the same penal provisions as murder.

But it did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim’s family under the so-called Islamic provisions.

These provisions often in conflict with the Anglo-Saxon law inherited by Pakistan in 1947.

Toh bhai before slinging mud on others on sati which is practiced by less than 0.00001% of India’s large population, look into your own country and see how karo-kari is being given almost legal sanction by the law itself.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Somebody is soon going to tell you that "STICK TO THE TOPIC"......

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

oh my God u guys r still at it

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

guys...all deedawar bhai saab is telling that aurangzeb did atleast one good thing by banning this practice. I have no problem to appreciate him on this. I also accept islam had its own positive influences on india.But i am not sure this thread will end here.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

^And somebody will be 100% right telling that.

Now do you see anyone here finding excuse of killing of innocent women?
Yes, those who find any excuse for Sati. A simple condemnation without going in circle and blaming everyone but the real origin would have been sufficient.

There is nothing in Islam promoting these kind of acts and open a new thread for new discussion if you like further opinion(s).

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

[quote=deedawar
There is nothing in Islam promoting these kind of acts and open a new thread for new discussion if you like further opinion(s).[/quote]

i dont want any discussion on this ....but you should first ask your friend syed abdullah on this.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

I would rather go by what this thread is about. If nothing more to say from your side then I am done.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

No. We all condemn sati. All of us ssingh, rahul, nicols and myself have said it before.

[QUOTE]
A simple condemnation without going in circle and blaming everyone but the real origin would have been sufficient.
[/QUOTE]

What were you doing all this time ? Just sit back, and scroll to all of the posts made by Indians. ALL have criticized sati.

[quote]
There is nothing in Islam promoting these kind of acts and open a new thread for new discussion if you like further opinion(s).
[/quote]

So who told you that sati is encouraged in Hinduism ?

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

^Enough said by me. You are beating a dead horse.

Read this thread in translation of your choice of language if you have doubt on some people finding excuse for this act or blaming others.

The last sentence of your post is also beaten to death before...So do the reading of your books yourself.

Bye Bye Sir.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Let dead arise........

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

I guess as I was the one who opened this thread, I should be the one to make one the last posts as well.

Each and every Indian (barring none) has condemned Sati and has tried to explain the reasons why the custom of Sati came into the Hindu culture/religion (does not make a difference whether its culture or religion). Apart from the Indians, other people like Captain1 also appreciated the fact (I believe he does) that the custom of Sati is on the decline in India.
I am really proud of all the fellow Indians that they were for the most part always ready to accept their (religion's/country's) faults, which IMO is not an easy thing to do (ask deedawar, silly billy or syedabdullah). That is the only reason why I hope of a better India. Their participation in the discussion was for the most part was very benign and they did not attack the other party's religion for proving their points.

But you all guys must have realized by now, that you cannot communicate with someone unless he's ready to listen to you, unless he has opened his mind to enter into an honest discussion with you. But still all of you were trying to prove your viewpoint against one jerk by the name deedawar. Why do you have to prove this to him when you guys yourselves know that he's not going to listen to you. There are so many other nice people (Muslims and Pakistanis) on this forum who'll agree with your viewpoints and accept that the situation is changing in India very rapidly, but they'll never participate in discussions on Hinduism and Islam coz they know it's a waste of time discussing religion with hawks(from both sides).

One deedawar kept this thread running for over 2 weeks and 100 messages and he by himself discussed this topic with all the other Indians and still no conclusion was reached (it was obvious though). Deedawar is a worthless person, why do you guys have to waste your precious time on him.

I know that it's none of my business to tell you what to do and what not to do, but it hurts me when I see sincere and honest people wasting their time and resources on people like deedawar, on people who do not matter.

Enough said, anyways, can I get banned from this forum for calling deedawar a worthless person??? Just wanted to know.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Good to see you back. You say you wanted to condemn the act and I did too from the beginning..but the discussion was changed when excuses were given and blame was thrown over others...including muslims and christians......I tried to condemn it on social ground as much as possible but others kept giving me label of anti-hindu or anti-india etc.........

I even tried to finish off by agreeing with Ssingh in a nice way and asked mods to do whatever is appropriate or even close the thread but then surprisingly he turned around after his buddy re-started the discussion.

I am sure you missed these points before writing your 'nice and kind' post above.

I think there is nothing wrong in clarifying misconception about Mr. Manmohan being the champion of trying to abolish this act.

Please don't bring me back by saying things which are not fact or act out as an emotional person.

Please refrain from name-calling also. Not a good thing for grown up people to do. I know we all have those moments from time to time.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

DD so here we are. I want you to post the specific posts where I tried to:

a) Disassociate Sati from Hinduism.
b) Failed in that effort.
c) Supported people who supported this evil act.

Again, I want specific posts made by me.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

^ I answered you on this in my post #77 of thread where you came from. (Points a and b)

Also in this thread your post # 131 you supported people who supported this act and discussed against my clear take on this issue.
(Point c).

Re: Sati in Bihar, India


Post # 131:
I guess as I was the one who opened this thread, I should be the one to make one the last posts as well.

Each and every Indian (barring none) has condemned Sati and has tried to explain the reasons why the custom of Sati came into the Hindu culture/religion (does not make a difference whether its culture or religion). Apart from the Indians, other people like Captain1 also appreciated the fact (I believe he does) that the custom of Sati is on the decline in India.
I am really proud of all the fellow Indians that they were for the most part always ready to accept their (religion's/country's) faults, which IMO is not an easy thing to do (ask deedawar, silly billy or syedabdullah). That is the only reason why I hope of a better India. Their participation in the discussion was for the most part was very benign and they did not attack the other party's religion for proving their points.

But you all guys must have realized by now, that you cannot communicate with someone unless he's ready to listen to you, unless he has opened his mind to enter into an honest discussion with you. But still all of you were trying to prove your viewpoint against one jerk by the name deedawar. Why do you have to prove this to him when you guys yourselves know that he's not going to listen to you. There are so many other nice people (Muslims and Pakistanis) on this forum who'll agree with your viewpoints and accept that the situation is changing in India very rapidly, but they'll never participate in discussions on Hinduism and Islam coz they know it's a waste of time discussing religion with hawks(from both sides).

One deedawar kept this thread running for over 2 weeks and 100 messages and he by himself discussed this topic with all the other Indians and still no conclusion was reached (it was obvious though). Deedawar is a worthless person, why do you guys have to waste your precious time on him.

I know that it's none of my business to tell you what to do and what not to do, but it hurts me when I see sincere and honest people wasting their time and resources on people like deedawar, on people who do not matter.

Enough said, anyways, can I get banned from this forum for calling deedawar a worthless person??? Just wanted to know.


Now deedawar, where did I suppot these people if they were trying to support sati or not ready to blame the Hindu tradition for that. Read it again. And do not beat around the bush, I want specific words and posts. Show me where did I support these people in post # 131.

And on going against your clear take on the issue, most of the posts of yours that I have read tell me that you are a worthless person. I am just not at your level and still I am talking to you. If you enter into a discussion with an open mind, I am with you. But if you just have an agenda of maligning other's religion either due to hatred or jealousy then you know what I think of you. And please note that every Indian on the thread condemned the Sati custom.

Re: Sati in Bihar, India

Your post # 77 on the Dianica (whatever) Patrick thread:

Look at post # 131: Each and every Indian (barring none) has condemned Sati and has tried to explain the reasons why the custom of Sati came into the Hindu culture/religion (does not make a difference whether its culture or religion).
I never tried to disassociate Sati from Hinduism (culture or religion, I do not know), so there's no question of failing in that effort.

Deedawar, it's not about winning or losing a debate, it's about an honest discussion which needs honesty and that you do not have and I am sure it's not your religion which made you like the way you are. Dont post to this thread unless you have something worthy to discuss on this issue. I do not care who won or lost the debate as far as I am discussing with an open mind.

Thanks for the discussion.