Salman Taseer Issue

there are many threads on taseer’s murder, i did go through most of them and almost of them are just about if this murder was right or wrong only one exceptional case is TLKs thread on this issue.

i think we are missing some points, thats why i’m opening up this new thread…

Warning was sent out loud when first time a drone killed many civilians, we read that news “23 terrorists killed in a drone attack” in newspaper or tv, and then simply moved to the next news or program…

in my view this murder of taseer is no different, rather its a bit “more discriminate in a good way” than those attacks… why?? consider this…

  • when CIA (and Pak Govt/ Pak Army and whoever from us is in agreement with and supports them) thinks that someone in those tribal areas is doing something against their belief and ideology, and should not do that, they simply take them out. Not only the ones they thought were the core culprits, but their children, their wives, their brothers, mothers, daughters, relatives, friends or simply anyone whoever happens to be close to them at that moment… they don’t even stop there, many a times, they take out all those who gather in the funeral of the dead men. when they do it, they don’t present them in front of a legal court, do they? They don’t give any evidences that those killed were guilty. They don’t sue them for not having the same thought process and mentality of the killers. they also “deliver justice” (according to them) right there…

  • when this guy mumtaz thought that taseer was in foes with his belief, and that taseer should be killed (according to him, just like the drone operators and supporters) he took him out. its only that he was just a little more “generous” that he only killed the one he though should be killed, not his wife, his daughter, son or even the friend who was standing right next to taseer right there. he knew that he cannot get it done through the legal system, and he had not enough power to express his feelings in media and reach the high corridors of power in the country (like taseer had owing several media outlets and having easy access to those in power, even he himself was one of them) so he did what he thought was right. just like drone operators and supports do what they think is right. What’s the difference?
    way of thinking of this mumtaz qadri and those drone operators is same, they feel threatened by the ideology of the people in mountains, and kill them in cold blood, above the law. Mumtaz felt threatened by taseer’s ideology and killed him in cold blood, above the law

also what do you expect a man like taseer who was well educated, had all the power one can dream of in politics, do you expect him to go by law and let the legal procedure prevail, and in the mean time try to educate people in and outside of parliament and try to amend law in a more responsible manner or do you expect him to go all abusive against a law which has sensitive religious sentiments of the vast majority attached to it. the lady was just sentenced to death by the session court only. if he was so much concerned about her and about the verdict not being fair he had the following choices:

  • file review petition, if rejected, go to high court, if verdict was kept, file a review in high court, if rejected, go to supreme court, if again verdict was kept, then file a review in supreme court, if again rejected, then go for a presidential pardon application. in the mean time he could have lobbied through his party inside the parliament, consult all different religious schools of thoughts in a more responsible way rather than just submitting a bill without prior discussion, without drafting the bill with religious parties (one of the biggest stakeholders) on board.

what he did was not good anyways, he stormed into jail with his media personnel along with him, misusing his power, and without going the legal way of court proceedings as expected by a so called educated-liberal-enlightened person, he brought a pre-written application with him to get it signed by the lady and called the law a “kala qanoon” and claimed that he will get her out and all. This was not wise on his part at all. He knew he had power and he can abuse all he wants, so he did. that guy Mumtaz knew that he doesn’t have enough power to counter taseer, but he knew what he can, so he did as well.

why no objection on taseer about what he did? why no such mourning and protests and legal committees and all for those who get killed on daily basis in our tribal areas?

having said all that, let me clearly say again, this doesn’t justify the murder of taseer, just like it doesn’t justify the murder of those 100s who get killed every month, just like it doesn’t justify the rout taseer took on this cause…

he was a big mouth, he used his power and position irresponsibly, he took the law in his own hands, so did this mumtaz guy, are we all dumb and blind to understand that simple thing?

i dont know if i’m making much sense in this long post or i’m able to convey what i want to, i hope i am. but its really sickening to see this level of hypocrisy by our so called educated and liberal people…

call spade, a spade. But don’t go overboard and don’t exaggerate simple things, look at the root cause and do not isolate this single case from all the mess that we have been creating, and what we are now intensifying with this drama.

mods: please merge it with appropriate thread if you think it should

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

Aceones, you have nailed it right!! Every action have its reaction.. this have happened in Taseer's case, who have turned into a hero just to get political mileage...

Currently our community is clearly divided into two factions, one was represented by Taseer and other by his killer... The followers of Taseer thinks they have right to kill and say anything they like or they feel would please the west whereas in the other party ( who relatively have less power) acts or reacts same way in opposite direction and the third party who do not want to be as enlighten and westernized as Taseer was nor does they want to join the religious extremists are suffering from both sides...

One can sense the same happening in GS as well...

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

What was Salman Taseer's "crime"?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

^^ Same... the crime of those innocents dying in drone attacks..

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

The drone attacks are a different matter altogether though. We cant kill our own people to justify the killing of our own people by a foreign power

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

did you really read the first post? we are not justifying any killings here

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

Ok, i get you. What you mean to say is that everything should go through a legal procedure. This is indeed the civilized way of doing things and this should solve most, if not all problems our country faces. But for this, the higher-up's should lose their habit of by-passing the system, while the system itself should be strengthened.

But the thing about calling Qadri's crime "generous" as compared to the drone attacks is unnecessary. Like I said, drone attacks should not be compared to terrorism because they are two completely different things.

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

again, either i could not put it in correct words, or perhaps you skimmed through it without trying to understand. otherwise you would have understood the "generous" part easily

as for the bold part, care to explain?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

It's hard to understand, really. You can always try again.

My explanation for my comment in the previous post:
Drone attacks are an international issue, while terrorism is a national problem. Also, the drone bombings happen in a war-like situation, it's not simply their ideology the drone-operators fear, but the fact that are going to carry out military attacks on their troops. This was not the case with salman taseer.

Of course when i said terrorism i meant suicide bombings, kidnappings, murders. You might be attributing terrorism to the drone attacks. In the end, both are bad, and thats one thing we agree on.

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

drones are not "only" an international issue. its our national issue. our country fellows and brothers/ sisters in islam are dyeing. its our very own issue. plus its not a war-like situation, where one group of people is sitting at home or going in a party in a car, or they are in a funeral or a wedding ceremony, while the other party flies by spraying some hell-fires on them sitting thousands of miles away with nothing to lose. no its not a war-like situation, its a cold blooded mass murder

and would you please remind us of any single event or "fact" as you put it, where these people, our country men carried out a military attacks on their troops in west? prior to the drone bombings... please no fake theories like 911 was planned in waziristan. and no i'm not protecting those who were in war with our own army in swat, they were, and they will be taken care of by our own army in much more precise way, though it has its own problems, but topic at hand is indiscriminate killings by drone...

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

Ah the ‘Having said that’ post. This clip sums up my feelings about the whole essay.

this idiotic equivalence with ‘drone attack’, which is basically a blanket defence for any argument, and can be linked to pretty much everything, is hardly worth responding to. Lady gets whipped in Swat, talk about drone attacks in Fata. Guy gets assassinated for taking a courageous stand, talk about drone attacks. Why are you late for work… drone attack.

All you lot want to do is minimize the crime, deflect attention elsewhere, and make wishy washy, half baked, semi-criticisms about the ‘wisdom’ of ST. The agenda is pretty clear.

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

the laws are often set aside for pro government activities (crimes) its just not drone attacks although the drone attacks is a major issue of law and order in pakistan.

infact theres no law in pakistan, the government is acting faithless, immoral and elitist

rehman malik says he will shoot the blasphemers himself. hes the interior minister! we know what he meant but this is the same govt which banned facebook under the blasphemy pretext and it figures that a country which does will have a resolute blasphemy law itself. now these people also call it a black law, in a brutish manner, without consulting the ulema! what scoundrels

its in this environment that i think an ishq-e-rasool like ghazi mumtaz malik qadri sahib is a victim of pakistans dramaqueen politicians. certainly the religious community has every right to fear a betrayal everytime the politicians speak

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

if its not worth responding, why are you here???
go celebrate the killings of thousands of “uneducated-poor”, and mourn one “courageous-educated-liberal”

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

At what point did I celebrate the killing of ANYONE? This stupid, uncalled-for comparison wouldnt apply if you didnt have an agenda. If someone you happen to know dies do you go to his family and say look what about drone attack?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

this "stupid" comparison was not about celebrating anyone's death. it only turned out to be when ignorant replies came up. its about killing above the law, without trial, without justifying why i think a person should be kill. where did i say that any other killing is justified because drones are also killing people?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

:d6c:

Bhai your right there should be no double standards!

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

Please dont think your double talk goes unnoticed. You called the murderer generous for not killing Taseer's family. Called Taseer a big mouth, questioned his motives and actions with respect to the blasphemy case, painted the murderer as the average joe powerless to counter Taseer legally so he had to do it himself, taseer took the law into his own hands as did his murderer. "Having said that", the murder is not juistified. Spend fifty lines minimizing and deflecting blame and blaming the victim, add two lines about the murder not being justified and you've covered your bases. Since the cyncism and manipulativeness of your approach is so obvious, I wont waste my time any more on that subterfuge beyond pointing it out.

You didnt answer my question about whether you point to drone attacks when you see any other person you happen to know murdered. What is the motivation behind talking about drone attacks in this particular instance?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

If the one killing of a suspected blashphemere is wrong so is the countless killings of proven innocents... I think thats the jist of it... and rightly so.

Why should one not so saintly politicians life be worth more than scores of innocents... even if they can prove they hit one millitant they probabbly also hit two dozen comepletly inoccent people.

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

let me put some facts straight and answer you point by point where you think i'm being manipulative (the part in bold above)

  • [QUOTE]
    murderer being "generous
    [/QUOTE]
    " as compared to the drones because he didnt kill taseer's family, yes its true. and you simply chose to ignore the >>compared to<< part, and also ignored the quotation marks which were meant to be there to make it sound sarcastic, everybody knows a murderer is not generous, i dont need to mention what islam says about a murderer, its basic knowledge i believe that you have.

  • [QUOTE]
    called salman taseer big mouth
    [/QUOTE]
    . so whats manipulative here? i know this, you know this, the world knows this, he was a big mouth like many others (eg: rana of pmln, bhai of mqm, mirza of ppp) these people a lot of times show their irresponsible attitude when they speak

  • [QUOTE]
    questioned his motives and actions with respect to the blasphemy case.
    [/QUOTE]
    you didnt answer any of the questions i asked about it. you did not care to justify why he took that line instead of doing it legally? why he could not pursue the case in the court and why didnt not he try to bring other political parties on board? and you know that other than the religious parties all of them were open to talk about, even religious parties would be ready to discus how to stop the misuse of this law. so why? what were motives behind his actions then?

-
[QUOTE]
painted the murderer as the average joe powerless to counter Taseer legally.
[/QUOTE]
he definitely was an average jeo, his overwhelming support by our masses shows that he was just like majority out there, same mentality, same lake of power and no way to get heard. it was only that he happened to be one of his guards. we all know that a lot of people in pakistan if could get their hands on one politician or the other, they will make a horrible example of them, not because its right thing to do, but because they have no other way left

  • [QUOTE] taseer took the law into his own hands as did his murderer, [/QUOTE] yes he did took law in his own hand when he by passed all the court and legal proceedings and ignored the bill which was submitted in parliament by a member of his own party and chose to directly go for presidential pardon. i wont repeat what i've already written in opening post and this one also

[QUOTE]
You didnt answer my question about whether you point to drone attacks when you see any other person you happen to know murdered.
[/QUOTE]
of course not, lets not try to be so naive here, this one case is fit for comparison be not every other "murdered" person do not get this much importance as taseer. and not everyone knows those poor souls like taseer, who get murdered, and at the moment taseer is being discussed everywhere so its easy to pick up. whats manipulative here??

[QUOTE]
What is the motivation behind talking about drone attacks in this particular instance?
[/QUOTE]
Faris perfectly answer this already

so who is being manipulative here, my dear ravage?

Re: Salman Taseer Issue

Who said it was worth more than anyone's life? The reason this has got so much coverage is NOT because hes a saintly politician, but because he was killed for expressing a point of view, and that has immense implications.

The pretence that this is a murder and can be compared to other killings ignores the fact of 50000 people marching in Karachi, calling Qadri a hero. If this was just about a murder, who would call Qadri a hero?