Aceones.. you are the one who is manipulative. Instead of addressing your post point by point I'll address it in two.
a) You spend a while recapping my characterisation of your post and agreeing with yourself. To agree with yourself is hardly the point of debate. Regarding the comparison with the drones, the juxtaposition automatically minimizes Qadri's crimes. There have been threads on drones (existing, sticky threads) and there is no shortage of comment on such threads. What is manipulative about calling ST loud mouth.. I suppose the same way rape victims are called provocatively dressed or 'unwise' in order to mitigate the rapists.. its blaming the victim. Whether he could have taken other legal recourses does NOT make the course he did take illegal, or 'taking the law in his own hands'. Activism can take different forms. Qadri is NOT supported by the masses because he is just like them in lacking power.. he is supported by the masses because religious obscurantism and fanaticism is distressingly pervasive, and people are afraid to openly take opposing stances for fear of being killed by another person 'lacking power'.
b) So the issue is that this is a prominent murder, and therefore fit for comparison with drone attacks? Lets say Edhi is murdered then. There would be many comments, lots of mourning. Would you come and talk about drone attacks and so many die there and murderer was generous relative to drone?
‘People who say blasphemy law is not debatable, mislead the nation’
** PUC chairman says those who issued edicts for Taseer’s murder are not muftis
Daily Times Monitor*
LAHORE: Pakistan Ulema Counsel Chairman Muhammad Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi condemned the murder of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer and said that those who issued edicts for the Punjab governor’s murder over blasphemy issues were not muftis, a private TV channel reported on Monday.
Alamdin Ashrafi said that Taseer was not Raj Pal and Qadri was not Ghazi Alamdin Shaheed. He said that Islam had bestowed more rights on minorities than Muslims in society. He urged that religion not be used for vested interests of politics. He said that Aasia Bibi and Qadri’s cases were in court and the court would give its verdicts regarding the cases and we should wait and respect the court’s verdicts. He said that Taseer’s matter was in God’s court now.
Ashrafi said that Taseer had repeatedly said that only a fanatic could commit blasphemy, adding that the blasphemy law was amended twice during Nawaz Sharif’s regimes, adding that Taseer was killed for just talking about the law. He said that laws presented by Ziaul Haq, Nawaz Sharif or Asif Ali Zardari were debatable, adding that those who say that a debate on blasphemy law was not possible were misleading the nation.
Ashrafi questioned as to how many people were sentenced under the law since it came into being in Pakistan?
He said that those who lodged fake FIRs were the real crooks. He asked why there was no law for those who commit blasphemy by mentioning fake statements in the FIR, which fall in the category of real blasphemy, and why religious parties do not raise their voices against them. Ashrafi said it was unfortunate that the nation could not understand what Taseer really wanted them to perceive, adding that people blame Taseer for committing blasphemy, but such people do not come on TV shows to prove their claims. He challenged anyone to prove any of Taseer’s statements in which he committed blasphemy and which warranted his death. He said that violence could not defend religion, adding that Islam was a religion of peace and we should adopt the holy Prophet’s (PBUH) way of life and not take the law in our hands. Ashrafi said that in his column, he was the first one who condemned a daily’s statement in which Salmaan Taseer was declared as murtad. He said that everyone considers himself a mufti in Pakistan. He urged that if any mufti, who declared a death penalty for the Punjab governor, or declared him as murtad, should come on TV and prove his claims in accordance with the holy Quran.
Aceones.. you are the one who is manipulative. Instead of addressing your post point by point I'll address it in two.
a) You spend a while recapping my characterisation of your post and agreeing with yourself. To agree with yourself is hardly the point of debate. Regarding the comparison with the drones, the juxtaposition automatically minimizes Qadri's crimes. There have been threads on drones (existing, sticky threads) and there is no shortage of comment on such threads. What is manipulative about calling ST loud mouth.. I suppose the same way rape victims are called provocatively dressed or 'unwise' in order to mitigate the rapists.. its blaming the victim. Whether he could have taken other legal recourses does NOT make the course he did take illegal, or 'taking the law in his own hands'. Activism can take different forms. Qadri is NOT supported by the masses because he is just like them in lacking power.. he is supported by the masses because religious obscurantism and fanaticism is distressingly pervasive, and people are afraid to openly take opposing stances for fear of being killed by another person 'lacking power'.
b) So the issue is that this is a prominent murder, and therefore fit for comparison with drone attacks? Lets say Edhi is murdered then. There would be many comments, lots of mourning. Would you come and talk about drone attacks and so many die there and murderer was generous relative to drone?
Ravage, nobody is trying to minimize anyone's crime. when you believe a guy was killed above the law, and we all gather here to call it bad and curse the killer, why is that when someone talks about thousands of innocents who are also killed above the law, but its taken as "minimizing the killer's crime"? how?
you again fail to understand that the point is not about justifying anyone's death because there are drones, the point is, when one person/ politician who is power, gets killed without without being convicted and prosecuted through the legal process, he's a victim and on national level urge to prob his murder and do whatever possible, but when thousands of other proven innocent lives are taken without any reason, we choose to keep silent and even try to justify their murder saying they were threats to the west. this is nothing but hypocrisy and double standards
So this does not clarify my earlier question. Suppose Edhi is murdered in a horrible way, similar to ST. Would you go into various threads and start talking about drone attacks and how the killer is generous compared to them?
First off there is no 'silence’on the drone issue. Secondly your mischaracterising the position of those who do justify the attacks, the rationale is usually not what you’re presenting, it isnt typically focussed on the west. Thirdly you need to be specific as to who was making the justification, what his views on the Salman Taseer murder were, and make this point on a drone attack thread. I cannot emphasise this last point enough. You may be able to make a relevant comparison and point out a flaw in the arguments of those defending drone attacks. Make the point in a thread ABOUT drone attacks. As the link above shows you’ve had upwards of 900 other locations on this forum where you could have made your point more appropriately.
As it is you appear to be arguing AGAINST those mourning/discussing ST’s murder as opposed to arguing FOR those killed in drone attacks.
ok fair enough. this last sentence in bold summarizes it all. either i “appear” to be doing that or you “perceive” me to be doing that. by no means i’m saying there should be no mourning for ST, the question is why a death of one corrupt politicians is more tregic than death of 1000s of innocent people? if they were treated equal to this dead politician, there would have been a 1000 times more intense actions by the govt on that matter, but unfortunately it really appears to be “silence” as comapred to what we are hearing on ST on govt level and also on this forum.
and know that you are no one to be telling me what to post and where, keep your suggestions regarding my posting habbits, upto your self. you really dont need to be personal and start accusing me of being a troll or anything. if you think this thread is not for you, get yourself out of it.
and i guess while posting the above link you were being so emotional that you mentioned a thread where i never posted. lolz
Nobody has said that one death is more tragic than the death of 1000s of people. The reasons why this is a bigger issue than just a murder have been explained to you already. Please dont be obtuse, if it was just a death of one person, why would 50,000 people rally calling the murderer a hero.
I gave you evidence that as far as this forum goes, there is no silence. You apparently missed the link (as evidenced in your subsequent response). The link is here: Google . These are the 900 locations I was talking about. As far as government action goes that is not germane to our forum or those discussing the murder here.
:hehe:
I did not call you a troll, I called Sarsaparilla a troll (the link was to his post revealing that he is an indian just out to provocate). The ‘link above’ was wrt to the google search showing results for drone attack restricted to this forum i.e. the appropriate place is one of the 900 other avenues of discussion offered on the subject of drone attacks.
i think salman taseer passed comment for blasphemy law was inappropraite, considering the fact he was holding public office. Further he was not authority on islamic jurisprudence and fiqah. if u dont know the nuances of sth how can u comment on it.
n he had to pay the price ............
i think govt should have a code of conduct for those who are holding public office that they should get opinion from some competent scholar before they share their views on relegious matters.
further he made a blunder by commenting on the issue when the matter was sub judice ............. it is a mtter of great concern that ppl holding key govt positions flout the rules.
Hmmm ! This is why eradication of Jahalat and Poverty is and always was so 'Important' and urgently required many decades ago to late!
Not only Taseer but this whole network of Pholiticians cum Leaders are the crop our ancestors sew for happy times.