Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
^ Raindance, the thing is that they claim, “we will be proven innocent” instead of “the no-balls were not deliberate”.
Even in this video they came up with the story that amir and butt were talking about bowling a bouncer and not a no-ball before THAT ball. As it turns out, it was no where near a short ball!
What an ignorant lawyer they have hired!
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^ Hmmmm,, Thanks Kakaballi ! This whole bloody episode is getting more twisted than my curl locks
Yaar yeh 'Tail ki qeemat kuch ziada nahi ho gaye? :D
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
Second file of evidence passed to CPS
ESPNcricinfo staff
The Crown Prosecution Service has been handed a second file of evidence relating to claims that Pakistan's cricketers accepted bribes to engage in spot-fixing during the fourth Test against England at Lord's in August.
**Scotland Yard said that evidence that there was a conspiracy to defraud bookmakers will be considered by the CPS, although the investigation remains ongoing. **
Detectives interviewed four players under caution, three of whom - Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir - are currently suspended from international cricket by the ICC.
Mazhar Majeed, a businessman and players’ agent, was also arrested as part of the investigation, and stands accused of accepting £150,000 to fix the actions of several players during the Lord’s Test.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “The Metropolitan Police has today delivered a second file of evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in connection with the investigation of alleged offences in relation to the fourth Test at Lord’s Cricket Ground on 26 August. The file will now be subject to CPS consideration.”
The ICC’s code of conduct commission rejected appeals by Butt and Amir against their suspensions last Sunday, while Asif had withdrawn his appeal. The next stage will be a hearing by the anti-corruption tribunal into details of the fixing case.
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/485648.html
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
I think Butt beleives because he is Butt peopel should support him.
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
Seems like the first evidence was not sufficient. Probably they handed over the same tapes to CPS which were being aired on all the TV channels. I wonder where are the tapes which NOTW announced to release with the date and time on them back in early September? Are they waiting to release them with their New Year edition to increase sales?
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
maybe they are waiting for the new year to release them, but here is a question, our brilliant chairman of PCB and the genius High commissioner of Pakistan in London grilled these three “innocent and masoom” guys for two hours and than declared they were 110% innocent. Why did they than cancel their central contracts instead of supporting these “innocent and masoom” clean players. Mind boggles. 
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
Strangely our Board has become so efficient post 11th October ICC meeting that now they are not willing to support these players at all, cancelled their contracts, etc. Tafazzul Rizvi who is always willing to advice PCB to sue ICC all of sudden is now criticizing Salman Butt and Aamir for questioning ICC’s decision and advising them that they need to show respect to ICC. Isn’t that mind boggling too
The entire board consist of bunch of incompetent morons. When they needed to suspend the three back in August they did nothing and the result was ICC suspension along with charges which could easily have been avoided. And now when the time is for PCB to support these players by demanding ICC to set up a tribunal and hearing date, they are again doing nothing.
ICC needs to be reminded what they have told everyone in the begining. Scotland Yard criminal investigation has got nothing to do with ICC’s hearing so why is ICC waiting for Scotland Yard investigation and CPS prosecution? Its not like ICC needs to give the trio a jail sentence and therefore wants Scotland Yard information. ICC needs to take care of disciplinary aspect of the case and according to them they already had evidence against these players which led to their suspension on September 2nd. So why is the delay now? Set up the hearing date, show us the evidence, prove them guilty, ban them and move on or maybe ICC have nothing to prove and they are just waiting for a divine intervention.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^^ let it go mr. drunk....
things will prove themselves pretty soon... this is not a CIA mystery...It is just cricket...
The sad part is that things wont be proven anytime. There would always be the element of doubt. To think that the no-ball was not deliberate would be questioning one's intelligence...
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^ Raindance, the thing is that they claim, "we will be proven innocent" instead of "the no-balls were not deliberate".
Even in this video they came up with the story that amir and butt were talking about bowling a bouncer and not a no-ball before THAT ball. As it turns out, it was no where near a short ball!
What an ignorant lawyer they have hired!
If anyone of you is a fast bowler, or knows a fast bowler... ask em how easy it is to throw a NO ball when you are aiming for bouncer or yorker and on the same note its very easy for a fast bowler to bowl a over pitched delivery when u r aiming for a bouncer or throw a beamer when u r aiming for yorker.
The Reason being you usually try to bowl the bouncers or yorkers as fast as you can which easily throws you off the target.
I think Butt beleives because he is Butt peopel should support him.
No sir u dont have to support him becoz he is butt, just support him becoz he is declaring ALLAH his witness and if he is lying leave it between him and ALLAH. We shld trust him more than GEO or ARY or western media coz those reporters wont declare ALLAH their witness.
Englishmen r famous for doing this to Pakistani Players unfortunately every Pakistani player isnt Imran Khan to come back strong by suing Ian Botham and wining the case.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
If anyone of you is a fast bowler, or knows a fast bowler... ask em how easy it is to throw a NO ball when you are aiming for bouncer or yorker and on the same note its very easy for a fast bowler to bowl a over pitched delivery when u r aiming for a bouncer or throw a beamer when u r aiming for yorker.
The Reason being you usually try to bowl the bouncers or yorkers as fast as you can which easily throws you off the target.
No sir u dont have to support him becoz he is butt, just support him becoz he is declaring ALLAH his witness and if he is lying leave it between him and ALLAH. We shld trust him more than GEO or ARY or western media coz those reporters wont declare ALLAH their witness. Englishmen r famous for doing this to Pakistani Players unfortunately every Pakistani player isnt Imran Khan to come back strong by suing Ian Botham and wining the case.
Blind patriotism can be very dangerous. It confines you to the prison of delusion and puts you at high risk of seeming absolutely ridiculous.
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
And how many of the no-balls are spoken about before actually occurring? 
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
and how do we know they were spoken about before they were bowled? Does the video give date and time
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^ that is for ICC/courts to decide, from what we know now (even if allegedly) video was made earlier, even Salman Butt didn't claim that the video footage was created AFTER fact.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^ that is for ICC/courts to decide, from what we know now (even if allegedly) video was made earlier, even Salman Butt didn't claim that the video footage was created AFTER fact.
That is true, yes Salman or anyone else haven't strongly questioned if the videos are authentic and though it cannot be used as an evidence but still it makes people suspicious.
My problem is when people become body language experts or start reading lips and claim that Salman was instructing Aamir and Asif in the ground to bowl no balls or when people say that such big no balls are only possible when you are doing spot fixing. Umer Gul and Rana Naveed have bowled plenty of big no balls before Waqar Younis helped them getting rid of that habit. However people never questioned those no balls simply because their was no video of Mazhar Majeed talking about Gul and Rana doing spot fixing. So admit one thing that all this hoopla is because of those vides and not because we are body language or lip reading experts from CIA.
Remember Yuonis Khan dropping the catch in last years Champions Trophy semi final which cost us the match? Beleive me people would have believed it to be spot fixing if there was a similar "pre match" video claiming that it was an intentional drop.
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
Oh yea, an Indian teaching a Pakistani rules of patriotism, am very convinced.
Its not blind patriotism, am supporting him on basis of** innocent until proven guilty**.
Now lets talk abt u declaring someone guilty until proven guilty becoz u r Indian and he is Pakistani. Y doesnt this apply to Raina ? Oh wait u gotta take off spectacles of blind Hatred.
Thank you
Y cant ICC make a decision if they find the this video authentic ?
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
My problem is when people become body language experts or start reading lips and claim that Salman was instructing Aamir and Asif in the ground to bowl no balls or when people say that such big no balls are only possible when you are doing spot fixing. Umer Gul and Rana Naveed have bowled plenty of big no balls before Waqar Younis helped them getting rid of that habit. However people never questioned those no balls simply because their was no video of Mazhar Majeed talking about Gul and Rana doing spot fixing. So admit one thing that all this hoopla is because of those vides and not because we are body language or lip reading experts from CIA.
Fkhan bhai, people who bowl no-balls intentionally or un-intentionally will ALWAYS get-away unless there is some 'proof', now that we have proof we want to have a 24-hour video of everything happening, even if we are given that people will start doubting and will claim there is video doctoring going on to super-impose images, image-shuffling etc.
People drop catches sometimes intentionally, I am not claiming Younis dropped catch intentionally, so if there is any 'proof' that he indicated catch dropping in a specific moment then yes that would've been considered spot-fixing.
Y cant ICC make a decision if they find the this video authentic ?
The problem is 'loop-hole' in the laws, currently there is no proof that any bookie in Eng was defrauded because of these no-balls hence ICC or police can't put these guys behind bars. Mazhar Majeed's character is known in the bookie circle hence he was approached to fix 'things' and rest is history. We can keep burying our heads in the sand and say "all is well" or we can get rid of evil, the choice is ours and rewards will be reaped by next generation.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
The problem is 'loop-hole' in the laws, currently there is no proof that any bookie in Eng was defrauded because of these no-balls hence ICC or police can't put these guys behind bars. Mazhar Majeed's character is known in the bookie circle hence he was approached to fix 'things' and rest is history. We can keep burying our heads in the sand and say "all is well" or we can get rid of evil, the choice is ours and rewards will be reaped by next generation.
Okay let me correct u a little here. English police or Scotland yard couldn't put these guys behind the bar because there was no proof of any bookie in Eng being defrauded because of those no balls. ICC CAN ban these players if they proof that these no balls were intentional regardless of anyone being defrauded because of those no balls.
So yea all ICC need is a proof that those No balls were intentional to Ban these players.... however if ICC cant proof that those no balls were intentional and if these guys hire some smarts lawyers they can sue ICC and PCB for decent amount.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
ICC CAN ban these players if they proof that these no balls were intentional regardless of anyone being defrauded because of those no balls. So yea all ICC need is a proof that those No balls were intentional to Ban these players.... however if ICC cant proof that those no balls were intentional and if these guys hire some smarts lawyers they can sue ICC and PCB for decent amount.
Why don't you share which clause of ICC laws tells you that intentional no-ball would result in banning a player?
Re: Salman Butt ‘With God as witness, we are not involved’!
^
I shld have used word “punish” rather then “ban”. The decision could be a ban or a fine or both but that decision doesn’t depend on anyone being defrauded. So ICC shld punish the player regardless of a proof that any bookie in Eng was defrauded or not.
this is definition of corruption per ICC rules and regulations.
2.1 Corruption:
2.1.1 Fixing or contriving in any way or otherwise influencing improperly,
or being a party to any effort to fix or contrive in any way or
otherwise influence improperly, the result, progress, conduct or any
other aspect of any International Match or ICC Event.
Note: It shall not be an offence under Article 2.1.1 to manipulate
International Matches for strategic or tactical reasons (such as where a
Player performs in a certain manner to enable his team to lose a pool
Match in an ICC Event in order to affect the standings of other teams in
that ICC Event). Instead, such conduct is prohibited under the ICC’s Code of
Conduct for Players and Player Support Personnel and must be dealt with
according to the procedures set out therein.
Per this definition it doesn’t matter if anyone was defrauded or not. If the video is authentic and proofs that these players pre planned throwing those no balls than they shld be punished. ICC cant throw them behind bars.
One can be techincal and say what if the no ball was intentional but not fixed. i.e bowler trying to hurt the batsman, then the conversation adopts a different route. So i would say if it was a “fixed No Ball” then they shld be punished.
Re: Salman Butt 'With God as witness, we are not involved'!
^ ICC has 'charged' them already, its upto the players now to defend themselves and prove that the video was an AFTER-FACT and that the money found in Salman's room was not the one given by Mazhar Majeed etc.