Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
^ performance first....seniority second
we all wish for this rule to get implemented but alas!
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
It could be implemented if there was accountability in all parts of the process....kher when there isent any accountability in the country itself then how can one expect it in the cricket board...that too with Nasim Ashraf and Salim Altaf in charge.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
^ he is unable to prove as a good opener and get his position. At any other position, Pak has better player than him.
As for other players you listed, I am in favor of Shoaib(If Inzy is not out there) so feel no need to comment on any other player as a Captain. Every other is player is all the same, not capable of leading Pak cricket team.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
I have recently announced my retirement from cricket, after scoring 2 ducks in a row facing 4 balls in total trying to send the ball out of the park... only to find my woodwork rattled. I can be the vice captain if you want.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
He is not a bad player at all (ehsan bhai just hates all the talented players in the Pakistani team, so ignore his views!). But captaincy is not an issue for him right now; sealing a place in the side is.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain…
who are you, Sir? 
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
Shoaib Malik would be a good choice as Captain as well, however as ridiculous as Sarfraz Nawaz is and always will be - Nawaz has accused Malik of Match fixing. I dont believe for a second that Malik is the kind of guy who would do something like that, however Shoaib needs to file a case or a reference against Nawaz instead of simply threatning to do so in the media. Pakistan needs a skipper that is controversy-free and Malik needs to act quickly to take Nawaz to task.
I think Malik would be a good candidate for the Vice Captaincy as well, Butt would be a certainty in tests and ODI's whereas Malik does not have a place in the test side and probably wont be able to get one either....because his bowling isent good enough to get him a place as a test allrounder, and as far as batting goes, it would be hard to fit him into the line-up.....
Re: Salman Butt as Captain…
Exactly my point 
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
Exactly my point :)
whats the point? :)
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
The point is, if you are gona discuss something as stupid as some 22 yr old who doesnt know his ass from his face, for captaincy, I can put my hand up for vice captaincy too cant I? It looks like a pretty good proposition.... . Since we have salman butt as the prime contender, I'm sure I can be good enough for vice captaincy as some unknown retired lame street cricketer.
Next, we'll want nawaz sharif as the cricket coach. I think I should open a thread on that.
Do you guys even know the mentality and the workings of Pakistanis as people and the cricket teams???
Salman Butt can pray he be in the team! Make him captain??? the guy who was the waterboy for 'yousaf bhai' and 'afridi bhai' and 'younas bhai' or the one carrying the pads and the cricket kit to the training and setting up cones for fielding?? Goodluck making the team play! Its pakistan we are talking about.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
Since we have salman butt as the prime contender, I'm sure I can be good enough for vice captaincy as some unknown retired lame street cricketer.
bla bla :)
If inzy retires, there is only one person capable of leading Pakistan and that is Shoaib Akhtar. He is a wild horse. If you want to play as vice captain, justify your position in the team and if you are capable of leading, you can lead one day.
Do you guys even know the mentality and the workings of Pakistanis as people and the cricket teams???
The mentality and working of people is all the same, round the globe. It has nothing to do with cricket, but go ahead and enlighten us about that and feel relaxed.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
I believe caption should not be one who is very young but i dont believe Younis Khan can be good caption for Pakistan specially in ODI. I think Shoaib Malik or Afridi can be gr8 caption for Pakistan.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
The mentality and working of people is all the same, round the globe. It has nothing to do with cricket, but go ahead and enlighten us about that and feel relaxed.
haha, sure...
if you think the mentality and workings (internal politics) of the pakistani team is perfectly normal and is the same all around the globe,,, i dont even need to put forward an argument. You need a reality check. This nawabi mentality is only present in sub continent cricket... and theres no way the players would tolerate kal ka bacha captaining them.
And shoaib akhtar?? please, give me a break. We need a captain who leads by example... we dont need drunken retards and drug addicts who cant bowl 5 overs straight as captain of Pakistan.. thank you very much. And every time he opens his mouth,,,rubbish comes out. You think this 'wild horse' can be a captain??
Dont get me wrong,,, I infact was one of the few who used to think he was captain material.. dig up some old threads if you want.... but sorry,,, I have seen the guy break down time after time and his off the fields antics are sonay pe sohaga... He plays 4 matches in a year and spends 8 months injured...we dont need nawab of kala bagh alhaaj molvi shoaib akhtar of raja bazar as our captain,,, thanks.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
haha, sure...
if you think the mentality and workings (internal politics) of the pakistani team is perfectly normal and is the same all around the globe,,, i dont even need to put forward an argument. You need a reality check. This nawabi mentality is only present in sub continent cricket... and theres no way the players would tolerate kal ka bacha captaining them.
.
Again you're going back to the same old, tried and tested formula that - hey the players wont tolerate a junior as a captain so lets go for a senior player to keep the players happy. This is NOT their Daddys team - they are paid to play by the PCB under a Captain who the PCB appoints...NOT the players. Time and time again Pakistan has bowed to the whims of the senior players...it happened after Imran Khan, when the senior most player - ie Miandad was given the Captaincy despite never being considered to be a good leader of men, then came Salim Malik, Ramiz Raja, Rashid Latif, Moin Khan, Waqar Younis, Inzamam Ul Haq - all of whom were lousy leaders and only became Captain because they were 'Seniors'...this mentality is what has caused the downfall of Pakistan cricket.
The PCB needs to be strong enough to appoint the player whom they believe has the abilities to be a good Captain - simple as that. They should NOT go along looking for a 'Compromise' candidate for Captain or give the Captaincy to a Senior player...just because he's a 'Senior'.
If some players dont want to play under a junior captain, they can pack their bags and hit the road. There is no shortage of young talented players who want to play for Pakistan, and sooner or later, they will come good and no one will even remember the seniors.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
haha, sure...
if you think the mentality and workings (internal politics) of the pakistani team is perfectly normal and is the same all around the globe,,, i dont even need to put forward an argument. You need a reality check. This nawabi mentality is only present in sub continent cricket... and theres no way the players would tolerate kal ka bacha captaining them.
:)
The mentalitry of people is same all over the World.
- A South African fan might taunt Afridi and Afridi can respond, and similarly a Pakistani fan can taunt Gibbs and Gibbs can respond.
- Similarly there was a time when few players from every team played in a cricket league against the will of their boards. If you have something to say, say it and prove me wrong by example instead of repeating the famous statement regarding politics and match-fixing.
Some things are unique to regions or societies and please don't repeat them. For instance, a person who was born in Africa's thick forest and spent his life there will probably have no idea about Cisco routers and their importance. Similarly we can discuss how such a person is spemding his life. If you keep it specific, every cricket playing nation has its associated society and system, so it is senseless for me to discuss that as it works in Australia so it will work in Pakistan. If Australians have developed a good looking system, then some part of that system was there at the lowest level for decades. They just confined it at the highest level to get better benefits out of it. For countries where the system at the lowest level has collapsed, it is not a good idea to follow same strategies.
And shoaib akhtar?? please, give me a break. We need a captain who leads by example... we dont need drunken retards and drug addicts who cant bowl 5 overs straight as captain of Pakistan.. thank you very much. And every time he opens his mouth,,,rubbish comes out. You think this 'wild horse' can be a captain??
Dont get me wrong,,, I infact was one of the few who used to think he was captain material.. dig up some old threads if you want.... but sorry,,, I have seen the guy break down time after time and his off the fields antics are sonay pe sohaga... He plays 4 matches in a year and spends 8 months injured...we dont need nawab of kala bagh alhaaj molvi shoaib akhtar of raja bazar as our captain,,, thanks.
I still favor Akhtar as the next person to lead Pakistan. He is the most intelligent player in Pakistan team and even Ramiz knows that. He is one of the best performers, so he can lead by example. And he can use himself best as a captain so his fitness will improve. He is unfit cause he is misused and often required to bowl much more overs than a regular fast bowler can bowl.
On the other hand, if you favor some1, give some valid reason for yor choice.
^
:)
As for the nawabi personality and related part, it is common to most superstars and again, its not limited to Pakistan or even cricket and for a superstar under immense media coverage, it is not always possible to act like a role-model all the time. Just google Beckham, Rooney, from Soccer and you will find similar stories. In cricket, I guess you know many examples yourself, Symonds, Flintoff,.....
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
Pakistan doesnt think like that man. Plus the older people in the team would stop performing if that happens.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
ManiaX, I did not say anything about making the senior most person the captain, but to even consider someone like Salman butt who cant even break into the playing 11 as a captain is preposterous. 2 years in the team... some good performances... and a good on and off the field record.. and maybe we should discuss it. Right now... no way.
Umar Asrhaf... Regarding Shoaib, I disagree. The guy is a charssi nashoyee and has personality of an illitrate idiot, and everytime he opens his mouth... one cant help but shake his head. He has a long way to go. If he was consistently in the team... yes I;d love to watch him captain, I was one of his biggest supporters... I think hes aggressive, has the killer attitude, but sorry... I need a captain that can be there all the time, and not sit outside rubbing his hamstring on the second day of a test match, to be ruled out for 3 months. I disagree regarding his misuse... he has a mouth... he can tell the captain hes good for 2 overs or 4.... no one puts a gun to his head. Plus, after this drug scandal, I;m sorry but he can count himself lucky to be just playing... forget captaincy.
Regarding the mentality bit, uve misunderstood me... what you are referring to is natural reaction and can happen universally everywhere. I am talking about the professionalism and the attitude of playing as a team,,, seeing it as a game and seeing themselves as responsible professionals. Pakistanis dont have that. There is no way they will play under a kid... not because hes a junior but because THEY know better than that kal ka chokra... "whos he to tell me what to do??? kal tak pad utha kay phirta tha" its a universal paki problem,,, we have huge egos and I dont see this happening. If he spends another couple of years, then yes once he starts getting counted as someone whos been around long enough,,, thats a different story.. right now, the idea is too silly to even discuss, knowing how pakistani cricket and pakistanis generally work.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
As far as I'm concerned, there are very few people who can captain pakistan from the current outfit...
I would pick Younis khan, Shoaib Malik or even MoYo, who seems to be a changed man and a lot more disciplined... and because of his new found love for religion... would be a pretty well respected member of the team and that could work in his advantage... The guy is a total cow though, just like inzi ... younis and shoaib maik can be good captains if given enough chances to continue for a period of time.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
Well Akhtar is the most intelligent player in this team and he can lead by example and he can deliver when Pakistan needs him the most and he can motivate others. He is a born leader. There is no other player in this team who is a better player than him or who is more intelligent than him, or who is a better motivator.
I understood you on mentality, but every society is unique in a few things. In UK people like to watch sports in stadiums and you could have seen more crouds if the WC was held in UK. Similarly Pakistan is a different societ. Many big players started playing in streets but it does not mean they were not as good as those who started playing in big clubs of Australia. Similarly seniority means respect and that rule is followed in every part of society and in institutions of Pakistan.
Re: Salman Butt as Captain...
People as a general point have pride issues...
Imagine your doing a job for five years and some guy thats being working for a year is promted to manager...your going to have an issue...thats just human nature...
So South Africa had the same rpoblems with Smith but what Smith had was vision and balls...he may have been young but he was a natural captain and becuase of this he ended up commanding respect...
Now is Salman Butt of this calibur...is he just the waterboy or can he lead from the front?...i dont know...
I dont like Younis Khan as captain...he just whines and has serious personal issues to be considered captain...
Shoiab Malik seems like a good candidate...
Shoaib is a no no not becuase of his alcohol or what not...his business is his business but hes injury prone and hes 31...he wont make the next world cup...its a shame cos hes outspoken enough and has the balls to do thing his way...
Razzaq and Afridi shouldnt even be in the mix...