Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

[happyheart]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

Salaam. I am new to this forum and just wanted to ask people’s opinions/experiences about this strong desire I have had over the last couple of years to move to Pakistan. I came to the U.S at the age of 8-9 and had a hard time adjusting initially. I adjusted well and after 9/11 in college, I had a period of reanalyzing my identity. I got married in Pakistan and have made 3 trips there in the last few years. What I observed was that, given you have a descent income, people are more relaxed and live more in Pakistan. Here in the U.S there is this atmosphere of stress. No one is happy. Everyone is stressed and life seems very mechanical. There is just atmosphere of coldness-no apna pun- no identity-.You just work and pay the bills, and work and pay the bills and the cycle continues. I feel more and more like a stranger and fear spending the rest of my life in this aimless cycle. Mind you all of my family is here, including uncles/aunts and their kids. However, I fear my kids losing their identities and not wanting to have anything to do with Pakistan. I want them to experience a Muslim majority country. I know Pakistan is corrupt, but still muslim majority and you get to be a 1st class citizen. What I wanted to ask was, does anyone know families who have moved back permanently, and if so, how was their experience? Do you recommend it? I can’t see myself getting old here living this meaningless existence. That is my biggest fear Do others feel this way? I think about it all the time. I have a descent job, so that’s not the issue. People here are fake, and there are no true friendships. Am I wrong in feeling this way? Should we live here permanently? Please share you thoughts/advice/experiences

Well i can shed some light on this issue because in know some families who did move to Pakistan and there are some who are contemplating to move to Pakistan. ALSO there are family members who totally failed in the USA because they have problems raising their children in the USA.

I have been living in the Netherlands for the last 32 years so i know how it is to live abroad. I was 9 when i moved to the Netherlands from Karachi. Life in Pakistan is not easy at all and you also know that i am sure. You are right that when you have well paid job than life is much easier in Pakistan. But is that all? No its not all. These days the situation in Pakistan is not very stable.
I personally do not believe that STATE OF MIND AND PEACE is dependent on a country you live in. I know many Pakistanis who live abroad that are more islamic more patriotic then those who live in Pakistan. Its all up the the parents how they raise their children. Nothing to do with a country you live in .

If you as a parent give your children stable environment to grow and you pay enough attention raising them as a Pakistan by telling them about Pakistan, going every year (or every 2 years) to Pakistan then all will be fine and they will not forget their culture believe me they will not.

I did not do any survey but what i have seen in my life is that those who were very rich and had enough money to move to Pakistan, whether they moved to their village or Islamabad…at the end after 1, 2 or 5 years they HAD to come back. WHY? Because of the future of their children, their education, safety problem in Pakistan, corruption in Pakistan, health problems.
Believe me does not matter how much money you have when people are SICK (may God keep us all healthy) people do go abroad for treatment.

Best would be to regularly go to Pakistan so that your children know about their culture. Believe me i love Pakistan more than anything int he world. I constantly am worried about Pakistan and think about Pakistan and pray that Pakistan may prosper. But you will be dissapointed big time in Pakistani Muslims since u have a very high expectations about “Muslim Majority Country”.

There is so much i want to type and i dont know where to start or when to end i hope i did help u little bit.

[khattichic]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

What I observed was that, given you have a descent income, people are more relaxed and live more in Pakistan. Here in the U.S there is this atmosphere of stress. No one is happy. Everyone is stressed and life seems very mechanical.

This is what I disagree with. In fact, I think you have it completely backwards. From what I can tell, people in Pakistan (and my whole family is in Karachi, so that is what I’m basing things on) seem to age much, much faster. No one looks fresh or relaxed…perpetual pareshan haal. No matter how well off they are (and my family runs the gammut from not very wealthy to extremely well off) everyone looks so tired and defeated all the time. And I don’t blame them. Wahaan ke haalaat aisi hi hain…gas ka masla, paani ka masla, bijli ka masla, traffic ka masla, hungamay ka masla, strikes ka masla…I’m not dogging on Pakistan at all…it’s a wonderful country with lovely people and a lot to offer if the corruption and circumstances were different.

From your posts, I feel like you have this utopia created in your mind about returning to the mother land. Pakistan is no less “wicked” and corrupt then Western nations. It is possible to raise good, Islamic minded pious children in America. There are plenty of communities in America that are more Pakistani than Pakistan itself. As far as your concerns of fake friendships and endless cycle of just paying bills…that sounds like a personal problem and not a reflection on living outside of Pakistan. Your life is what you make of it, regardless of your geographic location. You can live a good, comfortable life without getting caugh in the rat race or chasing the all mighty dollar.

Good luck with your relocation. Make the decision that you feel is best for your family, but please don’t make America out to be such a bad, demoralized place. Many immigrants have made a wonderful life here and are content.

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

I don’t understand why some people are getting upset at me. I know we have all become dollar chasers here and it is difficult to get out of that cycle. I don’t understand why some people are becoming aggressive. Maybe it due to the fact that its a sensitive issue for many. I wish I was like some of you guys who are completely satisfied with being where you are; but for me, something inside me tells me that this can’t be it. This can’t be the rest of my life. I can’t just be chasing the almighty dollar all my life. These were my thoughts that I wanted to share and and ask if others experienced these emotions/fears. With everything else going in the world, we are going to be asked more and more to keep our mouths shut and compromise our deen in the west. I asked a couple of sheiks if we can stay here indefinitely, and the answer I got from all of them was a no. They said that you are partially responsible if your decedents become kafir down the line. I know at least two Pakistani guys who have become atheists due to college/philosophy. And don’t tell me we are not compromising the deen everyday. Whether its the missed namaz, or no namaz, or no namaz in jammat in years. Or the apologetic hey “I am a good liberal Muslim” not one of those other religious muslims with beards smirk some of us have to carry around. I can go on and on. We are in denial and the mighty dollar takes precedence, the rest are just excuses. I appreciate everyone’s opinions, however; but please if you don’t have something to contribute, don’t just act like a cyber-bully. What’s so wrong with Gujranwala? It is a good conservative city where women cover and family values are intact. Not good to make fun of any city. I appreciate the advice given by some of you. If someone has more insight/opinions/ experience..please share

your post make me teary.. NO

i moved back couple of months ago, not bad neither too great but i am still here doing perfectly better then US.

You can read about my experience
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/travel-and-tourism/562934-transfer-of-residence-usa-to-pakistan.html

[Sehrysh]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

firenze, you are actually a case in point for why living in the Pakistan is no different to living with the temptations of the US - how vices are everywhere and choosing to avoid or partake in them is a personal choice.

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@pakistanimard

Dear brother..

People are getting upset because they live in the west, fully content. When you say the lifestyle isn’t what you want, you are basically saying all those people are wrong/guilty or whatever. So they think you are dissing them n stuff…

I like it more like a “thappaar” on face !

@khattichic

This is what I disagree with. In fact, I think you have it completely backwards. From what I can tell, people in Pakistan (and my whole family is in Karachi, so that is what I’m basing things on) seem to age much, much faster. No one looks fresh or relaxed…perpetual pareshan haal. No matter how well off they are (and my family runs the gammut from not very wealthy to extremely well off) everyone looks so tired and defeated all the time. And I don’t blame them. Wahaan ke haalaat aisi hi hain…gas ka masla, paani ka masla, bijli ka masla, traffic ka masla, hungamay ka masla, strikes ka masla…I’m not dogging on Pakistan at all…it’s a wonderful country with lovely people and a lot to offer if the corruption and circumstances were different.

From your posts, I feel like you have this utopia created in your mind about returning to the mother land. Pakistan is no less “wicked” and corrupt then Western nations. It is possible to raise good, Islamic minded pious children in America. There are plenty of communities in America that are more Pakistani than Pakistan itself. As far as your concerns of fake friendships and endless cycle of just paying bills…that sounds like a personal problem and not a reflection on living outside of Pakistan. Your life is what you make of it, regardless of your geographic location. You can live a good, comfortable life without getting caugh in the rat race or chasing the all mighty dollar.

Good luck with your relocation. Make the decision that you feel is best for your family, but please don’t make America out to be such a bad, demoralized place. Many immigrants have made a wonderful life here and are content.

First Karachi is not normal the stuff going on their is total opposite to rest of the country .. ok include KP province with Karachi, so example of Karachi is just like i am telling my next door neighbor in Faisalabad to go live in Alaska if he will not killed by some KKK person but surely by cold.

If all of your logic is built around Karachi situation then sorry to say you have no idea about Pakistan. Come visit me sometime, a total different perspective you will see not just listen !

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@Sehrysh

firenze, you are actually a case in point for why living in the Pakistan is no different to living with the temptations of the US - how vices are everywhere and choosing to avoid or partake in them is a personal choice.

seriously its hard here i can’t able to secure my wine supplies and artisan cheese .. its just people here sometimes drive me crazy but then hey my genetics are same i suppose to be one of them in rush always, never smile & neither say thank you ever !

[homesick]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

Notice I said “we have become dollar chasers” myself included. So it was not really finger pointing but an analysis of the situation in which we are all included. People have opinions and they are going to vary, and I respect all of them as long as they are communicated respectfully. Speaking of accusations, if one feels that criticizing Pakistanis in the west for living there is an accusation, what are you saying about Pakistan and 180 million people living there when we call the country corrupt, polluted, unsafe and God knows what else. Are these not accusations too? Firenze please do share a little about yourself and your decisions and your challenges etc

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

^ dude why you have to write whole paragraphs in reply, please don’t

[khattichic]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@firenze

I like it more like a “thappaar” on face !

First Karachi is not normal the stuff going on their is total opposite to rest of the country .. ok include KP province with Karachi, so example of Karachi is just like i am telling my next door neighbor in Faisalabad to go live in Alaska if he will not killed by some KKK person but surely by cold.

**If all of your logic is built around Karachi situation then sorry to say you have no idea about Pakistan. Come visit me sometime, a total different perspective you will see not just listen **!

Ok, well of course I’m going to base my opinions around my frame of reference, which happens to be Karachi, because that is where my family is based. I don’t know anything about Punjab/Lahore/Isloo etc because I don’t have any family there, but I can say that in my 2 years of being on this forum, I have seen and heard the same frustrations from plenty of members I’ve befriended off of GS, who do live in those cities/areas.

I would love to visit you or anyone for that matter and see a different side of Pakistan, because I’m not so bullheaded that I don’t know it exists. Like I said in my original post, Pakistan IS a wonderful country, I never doubted that. I just have to call bullsh!t on the OP’s generalizations on how terrible America is for raising children.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@Sehrysh

It’s not being upset, rather we’re challenging your idea that living in Pakistan is the solution to the problems you’ve described.

*Jahan tak *you talk about apna-pan, sure living in Pakistan you will be part of a community of Urdu/Punjabi/Sindhi/Seraiki/Pashto speakers who wear shalwar kameez and are in majority Muslim.

But the temptations you’re trying to save your children from - losing their language, wearing jeans and T or other revealing clothes, dating, drinking, losing their religion, etc. - the possibility to stray exists in Pakistan as well as here.

College/University mein larki/larka West mein bhi ishq laraatein hai aur Pakistani mein bhi. Clubs, dancing, drinking - it happens everywhere. So don’t be oblivious to the tempations, deal with it.

Preserving one’s faith and way of living is a choice. I’ve made it living here and you and your children will have to make it there.

Really? Are you talking about the Pakistan I live in. This place is pretty repressive and you don’t get access to those all those vices unless you’re really loaded. Losing religion is an exception, you lose that pretty easy with all the hopelessness and chaos over here.

[khattichic]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

Notice I said “we have become dollar chasers” myself included. So it was not really finger pointing but an analysis of the situation in which we are all included. People have opinions and they are going to vary, and I respect all of them as long as they are communicated respectfully. Speaking of accusations, if one feels that criticizing Pakistanis in the west for living there is an accusation, what are you saying about Pakistan and 180 million people living there when we call the country corrupt, polluted, unsafe and God knows what else. Are these not accusations too? And no Pakistan is not the the solution to some of the problems we have described, but I will tell you that Pakistan will never make me an apologetic Muslim, or take me to prison because my kids decided I over stepped the boundary and call the cops on me, my tax money won’t be contributing to the “liberation” of the Muslim world. Anyways. Someone mentioned Texas. I have heard a lot about the community there. Anyone in Texas right now wanna share about the community, housing, jobs , people etc.

I live in Dallas, Tx. It’s a wonderful place to raise a familiy. Housing market is extremely affordable in comparison to up north, and property values are stable as we never experienced the Real Estate bubble bust that hit after 2008 (I’m a Realtor), job market is stable too. It lacks the public transportaion infrastructure that you are used to in NY, and definitley is not as picturesque as other parts of the country, but it’s a wonderful quality of life here. The DFW metroplex is really just a bunch of suburbs, and pretty much each suburb you’ll find a thriving Muslim community, whith a multitude of activities (MAS youth activites, Muslim boy scouts. girls scouts, numerous cultural organizations) There is no shortage of Halal grocery stores/restaurants. There are very good Islamic private schools here too. People here are very friendly and sociable.

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@khattichic

Ok, well of course I’m going to base my opinions around my frame of reference, which happens to be Karachi, because that is where my family is based. I don’t know anything about Punjab/Lahore/Isloo etc because I don’t have any family there, but I can say that in my 2 years of being on this forum, I have seen and heard the same frustrations from plenty of members I’ve befriended off of GS, who do live in those cities/areas.

I would love to visit you or anyone for that matter and see a different side of Pakistan, because I’m not so bullheaded that I don’t know it exists. Like I said in my original post, Pakistan IS a wonderful country, I never doubted that. I just have to call bullsh!t on the OP’s generalizations on how terrible America is for raising children.

All of these members must be female i bet.

I agree with your last two lines, US is still far better place in terms of quality of life, schooling & availability of resources to raise a family !

[Sehrysh]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

Notice I said “we have become dollar chasers” myself included. So it was not really finger pointing but an analysis of the situation in which we are all included. People have opinions and they are going to vary, and I respect all of them as long as they are communicated respectfully. Speaking of accusations, if one feels that criticizing Pakistanis in the west for living there is an accusation, what are you saying about Pakistan and 180 million people living there when we call the country corrupt, polluted, unsafe and God knows what else. Are these not accusations too? And no Pakistan is not the the solution to some of the problems we have described, but I will tell you that Pakistan will never make me an apologetic Muslim, or take me to prison because my kids decided I over stepped the boundary and call the cops on me, my tax money won’t be contributing to the “liberation” of the Muslim world. Anyways. Someone mentioned Texas. I have heard a lot about the community there. Anyone in Texas right now wanna share about the community, housing, jobs , people etc.

^ I agree with you in part. I do have enormous respect for the awaam of Pakistan and I shouldn’t paint everyone with the same brush - the majority of Pakistanis are moral people who are struggling to make the best of difficult circumstances. But what I respectfully disagree with is the above bolded statement.

Violence on sectarian differences abounds. We are constantly hearing about the Shia-Sunni divide and the mutual attacks. Persecution of Christians and Ahmedis, or anyone accused of blasphemy also makes it to the news. The same way you feel you are made to apologize for your Muslim beliefs living in a non-Muslim country, Ahmedis, Christians, some Shias and some Sunnis from non-prevailing schools of thought are also made to feel the same way in Pakistan. The idea of tolerance of different people isn’t supported there.

[Sehrysh]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@SaeedinPakistan

Really? Are you talking about the Pakistan I live in. This place is pretty repressive and you don’t get access to those all those vices unless you’re really loaded. Losing religion is an exception, you lose that pretty easy with all the hopelessness and chaos over here.

The poor have access to moonshine liquor just as easily as the rich. And affairs and inappropriate relationships aren’t the exclusive domain of the wealthy either.

[Hadeel]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

Lets just switch places. You and me.

Kahani khatam. Paisa hazam. Close the thread.

[firenze]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

but I will tell you that Pakistan will never make me an apologetic Muslim, or take me to prison because my kids decided I over stepped the boundary and call the cops on me, my tax money won’t be contributing to the “liberation” of the Muslim world.

red alert, extremist in the making … dear homesick, you are really homesick right now i think. But please let me open your eyes a bit Pakistan is not Islamic Republic of Pakistan in reality only on papers. We have such sick society here that i don’t even want to start, so please leave the shyt part of apologetic muslim & calling cops and else..

If Pakistan need to survive then it have to become secular republic. To Dear Pakistani-Americans please only send liberal Muslims back home we have enough of lunatics with explosives attach to there bodies rooming around !

p.s. cell phone signals are just back after 12 hours … aah another great thing i love about Pakistan at last my phone got rest

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@Sehrysh

The poor have access to moonshine liquor just as easily as the rich. And affairs and inappropriate relationships aren’t the exclusive domain of the wealthy either.

Really? I think I should get out my house more often:snooty:

[Reha]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@homesick

I don’t understand why some people are getting upset at me. I know we have all become dollar chasers here and it is difficult to get out of that cycle. I don’t understand why some people are becoming aggressive. Maybe it due to the fact that its a sensitive issue for many. I wish I was like some of you guys who are completely satisfied with being where you are; but for me, something inside me tells me that this can’t be it. This can’t be the rest of my life. I can’t just be chasing the almighty dollar all my life. These were my thoughts that I wanted to share and and ask if others experienced these emotions/fears. With everything else going in the world, we are going to be asked more and more to keep our mouths shut and compromise our deen in the west. I asked a couple of sheiks if we can stay here indefinitely, and the answer I got from all of them was a no. They said that you are partially responsible if your decedents become kafir down the line. I know at least two Pakistani guys who have become atheists due to college/philosophy. And don’t tell me we are not compromising the deen everyday. Whether its the missed namaz, or no namaz, or no namaz in jammat in years. Or the apologetic hey “I am a good liberal Muslim” not one of those other religious muslims with beards smirk some of us have to carry around. I can go on and on. We are in denial and the mighty dollar takes precedence, the rest are just excuses. I appreciate everyone’s opinions, however; but please if you don’t have something to contribute, don’t just act like a cyber-bully. What’s so wrong with Gujranwala? It is a good conservative city where women cover and family values are intact. Not good to make fun of any city. I appreciate the advice given by some of you. If someone has more insight/opinions/ experience..please share

homesick…I don’t understand where you’re getting this idea. People are no different in Pakistan. Yes, they speak Urdu but they have the same lifestyle…they work, they go out, they hang out with boys and girls, etc etc etc. You have a very glorified version of Pakistan in your mind and that’s fine but its not reality. You don’t think people in Pakistan are interested in financial success? That they spend their days praying at their local mosque? Who does all the work? As for practicing your Deen…then I’ll be honest my friend…its YOUR Deen…not Pakistan’s. Its your responsibility to practice it with devotion. I’ve prayed at work, I’ve gone to Jumah during lunch hour, I’ve worn appropriate clothes my whole life and worn hijab at one point for 6 years, etc. If you want to make something work…its your call.

@homesick

Notice I said “we have become dollar chasers” myself included. So it was not really finger pointing but an analysis of the situation in which we are all included. People have opinions and they are going to vary, and I respect all of them as long as they are communicated respectfully. Speaking of accusations, if one feels that criticizing Pakistanis in the west for living there is an accusation, what are you saying about Pakistan and 180 million people living there when we call the country corrupt, polluted, unsafe and God knows what else. Are these not accusations too? And no Pakistan is not the the solution to some of the problems we have described, but I will tell you that Pakistan will never make me an apologetic Muslim, or take me to prison because my kids decided I over stepped the boundary and call the cops on me, my tax money won’t be contributing to the “liberation” of the Muslim world. Anyways. Someone mentioned Texas. I have heard a lot about the community there. Anyone in Texas right now wanna share about the community, housing, jobs , people etc.

I don’t think you’re being realistic. Unfortunately, it seems like you may not have the right ideas of life there.

[Ghost14]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

First of all, paragraphs…they’re good for you. Please, paragraphs.

Second, you’ve built up an ideal image of Pakistan that doesn’t exist. Yes, everyone around you will be Muslim, at least in name, but that’s it. People over there have the same problems as people over here. In fact, they have more problems because of the crumbling infrastructure. My mom’s family is extremely close knit, and yet, people are thinking about emigrating because of economic and security concerns. I consider my family to be middle class, they live in places like Model Town and DHA, and even they’re feeling the pinch.

As for morals, you’d be surprised at the crap that goes on there. Do you know any teenagers and college aged people in Pakistan? I do, and the stuff I hear from them is often worse than the things that go on here. **Some **people there have all the fun, without any of the lessons about safe sex, abortions (yes I’m serious) and drinking and driving that people here receive. The only difference is that in Pakistan people hide their activities.

Your assertion about “feeling weird if you don’t date” is also false. I was an honor student, was the captain of the basketball and football teams, and was pretty popular, and I never had a girlfriend. And it wasn’t just me, I have friends (white guys) who were also fairly popular, good at sports etc, and some of them didn’t date anyone seriously either. They might have went on dates and fooled around, but I’m fairly certain they never had sex while in high school, so it’s not unusual.

Lastly, as other people have said, it’s up to you to make your life what it is. Your claim that everyone here chases the dollar is ridiculous. The only thing missing here, for me at least, is the extended family, which can change in one generation. Aside from that, your lifestyle here can be just as Muslim, albeit slightly less Desi, as your lifestyle in Pakistan.

p.s. Did you like my paragraphs?

[goodname]

Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan

@Sehrysh

The poor have access to moonshine liquor just as easily as the rich. And affairs and inappropriate relationships aren’t the exclusive domain of the wealthy either.

Well said. And, let’s not lose sight of the fact that Pakistan is a land of “andhon main kana raja.” I am not sure if it is already a major motivation behind his contemplation to move to Pakistan but if “homesick” were to move back, he would likely become part of the 1% in that country thanks to his AMERICAN accent, AMERICAN school and college education, and AMERICAN work experience, all of which would come handy to secure, to quote the OP, a “descent” job in Pakistan. And, despite all his apparent shameless ingratitude, homesick would OWE ALL of his relative financial success in Pak to the US and the opportunities that it GAVE him, just as he owes everything he has today to this country. Because, unless his parents were ultra rich industrialists/big army bigwigs/feudals, chances are he would be slumming it up along with the lower 99% in Pak since there is almost ZERO upward social mobility in Pakistan.

And one more thing, homesick: The children of the Pakistani elite (including the little ‘princelings’ with blue passports whose parents moved to Pak) who attended college with me during undergrad were much more ultra-modern/‘wild’ than majority of their American born and/or raised Ameircan-Pakistanis. I was and am perfectly find with that. But y*ou *might not be if you think you kids can lead a completely sheltered life in Pakistan or that they would not go crazy when they eventually get a chance to move back to the US. That’s NOT possible unless you send them to some terrible Urdu-medium school- a fate that surely any self-respecting father who loves and cares about the future of his kids would not willingly subject his kids to.