guys what do you think of Pakistani players delivering sajda upon achieving a milestone …
as far as I remember, I have never seen players from any other Muslim country following this ritual in any other sports..i have not seen saudi or middle eastern soccer players doing this even in tense matches upon winning or scoring a goal … no one did that in Olympics either…
so why do pakistani players do this and that too so many times in a match… upon scoring a century (umar akmal does it on 50s as well)…or when you take 5 wickets … or whole team upon winning a match… add to this, every skipper of ours starting conversation with “bismillah” … you almost feel like that you are dealing with a religiously fanatic group… yeah when you win the world cup it is a different story but making it a sporting ritual? come on…
and what exactly do we achieve by doing this? exhibiting thankfulness to god should always be there…why do we need to show it publicly a dozen times in every match? who are we trying to impress…plus isnt this a very personal thing?..go back to your room and you can read nafals the whole nite …
if anything, rest of the world takes it as a token of “too religious”, “don’t want to mingle with the rest” “socially unfit” and for the right reason…no other Muslim country does that … and this is a very important point…the world is becoming a very small place with social media … why to become an outlier for no reason?
and most importantly, Pakistani players are worst when it comes to moral character…sorry for being so blunt but that is the reality..Mohammad aamir and salman butt were delivering sajdas in lords and were selling their country for money in the same series…only yesterday, Pakistani tax department has issued list of all those cricketers who have not paid millions in taxes and are continuously showing only 10-20% of their real income… and mashallah every single player of this current team is part of that list…so enough of this ritual I guess…it is not impressing anyone!
bottom line is … if hashim amla is not doing it then i certainly don’t want likes of salmant butt, mohammad aamir, shoiab mailk and umar akmal doing it either!!!
on the one hand you're saying religion is personal... so let it be a personal choice on how expressive one wants to be about his/her style of gratitude for success.
as far as whether others do it besides our players, they most certainly do... Al Ghasara did it at the Beijing Olympics and Mo Farah did it this year in the London Olympics. As expected, they made headlines because of their actions, but the way I see it, these people actually show the world that even athletes can be religious and it's not our religion that leads to radical behavior. I rather look at these athletes as ambassadors for a religion that otherwise gets too much flak for a variety of reasons including self-inflicted ones and propaganda based.
on the one hand you're saying religion is personal... so let it be a personal choice on how expressive one wants to be about his/her style of gratitude for success.
as far as whether others do it besides our players, they most certainly do... Al Ghasara did it at the Beijing Olympics and Mo Farah did it this year in the London Olympics. As expected, they made headlines because of their actions, but the way I see it, these people actually show the world that even athletes can be religious and it's not our religion that leads to radical behavior. I rather look at these athletes as ambassadors for a religion that otherwise gets too much flak for a variety of reasons including self-inflicted ones and propaganda based.
Players ambassadors for a religion? really …. since when? this is new to me! I did not know they have this additional responsibility… apparently we are the only ones who think like this…. How come no other group exhibits religious behavior through sports? plus my fundamental question is still there…. are the rest of the world and spectators not aware of Pakistani players being Muslims? Why do we need to announce it so many times?
And I am not judging anyone … but what they do on the ground in Pakistani uniform cannot be personal stuff ….how can it be? Tomorrow a more religious player can demand that I need to take a break to pray on the ground because it is the prayer time or I need to deliver 2 nafals right now for my double century as part of my minat……now it may never happen but I am trying to make a fundamental point….any non-sporting actions on the ground by a national team especially the ones with a bent towards religion need to be carefully analyzed as they have many other dimensions…what about players from religions in your team? How would it impact the team’s harmony…
and most importantly is it only one player or the whole team doing it to make a particular point? In this case, it is not “one” player…it is a calculated approach adopted by the whole team as a policy issue...so let’s not dilute the discussion…take a stand that I agree with their approach or I don’t…
the fact remains that these players are not playing in privacy of their homes ...they are representing Pakistan and every action that they take on the ground ultimately contributes to Pakistan brand… and I don’t think that this particular approach adds any value to Pakistan’s brand rather it dilutes it…
and obviously it does not help the cause at all when those very players get caught in amoral activities………..anyway to me saying thanks to god from bottom of your heart is very personal and passionate stuff...say it in your heart when you are on the ground and pray when you get to your room…
and yes absolutely fine to do it when you win something big ... it is more in heat of moment ... still luv those images when our whole team went into sajdas upon winning the world cup in 92 but i am talking about a different issue here....no one can deny that since inzi days, our whole team does it publicly on every step to make a certain religious point and all I am saying that it is hurting the cause more than it is helping…Hashim amla thanks to his calm and no-nonsense behavior is a much better ambassador..
The easiest way to hide/cover incompetency in the blanket of religion, after all they are Pakistanis where chances of you getting noticed by people depend less on your skill set and more on who you know, what background you have and what’s the length of your beard and how Islamic you can make yourself look.
Salman butt probably used to recite Aaait-Al-Kursi in same games where he used to be indulging in spot and in cases even match fixing. Subhaan allah.
I also recall during batting he used to recite verses from Quran. They were plain evident when the camera used to zoom in on his face. Check out the couple of matches versus India where he scored centuries. And then he went on to sell his country as captain after that.
Starting every post match interview with 'Thanks to Almighty' is probably a bit excessive
Its not bit excessive .......We as a muslims believe that in everthing happens its Allah's will so why not thank Allah in every situation whether its Win or Lose
Its not bit excessive .......We as a muslims believe that in everthing happens its Allah's will so why not thank Allah in every situation whether its Win or Lose
Yes but there is a time and place for everything
Imagine you are in an exam viva or with a driving instructor and the examiner/driver asks you something about salt analysis/hazard warning lights etc. You don't start your answer with ... do you?
Imran Khan or his predecessors never did that (are they not good people?). It all started with Waqar...
Players ambassadors for a religion? really …. since when? this is new to me! I did not know they have this additional responsibility… apparently we are the only ones who think like this…. How come no other group exhibits religious behavior through sports? plus my fundamental question is still there…. are the rest of the world and spectators not aware of Pakistani players being Muslims? Why do we need to announce it so many times?
Being an ambassador isn’t a responsibility but more of an opportunity. I consider everyone who carries themselves cordially and respectably to be an ambassador of the religion… and I can’t help it because the religion gets a lot of bad rap… often at the hands of those who proclaim themselves to be archetypal Muslims – to the detriment of moderate folks like me and you.
I’m not saying it needs to be done one way or another, nor that I support public display of sajdahs... I'd probably come home and pray two nafils if it was me in their place. But let’s not impose our own preferences on others… religion is something personal… so let them express themselves in whatever way they deem appropriate.
As far as expressing oneself after big versus small successes, again, who are we to judge what’s big and what’s small in the context of every person?
Someone who’s blessed with success may not think too much of additional “ meager” achievements while to another less fortunate person it might not be meager after all. Again, why not let them articulate in whatever way they want. Last I checked, they weren’t offending or hurting anyone with their statements, and that’s what freedom of expression is all about.
Imagine you are in an exam viva or with a driving instructor and the examiner/driver asks you something about salt analysis/hazard warning lights etc. You don't start your answer with ... do you?
Imran Khan or his predecessors never did that (are they not good people?). It all started with Waqar...
And ironically, when they started wearing religion on their sleeves (actually on their faces Inzimaam style), Pak cricket went downhill.
I believe phoenixdesi's issue with sajda has more to do with hypocrites like Salman Butt/M Aamir who did the sajda and continued to be involved in crimes like spot fixing. Unfortunately not paying taxes is not even considered a sin/immoral/crime, instead the ones who actually pay taxes voluntarily are laughed at. I don't care if a player does a sajda or not, I don't care if other countries' Muslim players do it or not.
And ironically, when they started wearing religion on their sleeves (actually on their faces Inzimaam style), Pak cricket went downhill.
the actual performance of the players who did 'sajda'? or team as whole? I believe it 'team as whole' and it may have more to do with in-fighting, may be tussle between 'religious' and 'not-so-religious' players?
Isn't it a personal choice? And whatever happened to freedom of expression? Who is to say because other people don't do it, Pakistanis shouldn't either. It makes no sense.
the actual performance of the players who did 'sajda'? or team as whole? I believe it 'team as whole' and it may have more to do with in-fighting, may be tussle between 'religious' and 'not-so-religious' players?
Maybe the tableeghi players started pushing around the not-so-religious ones and made them feel inferior or uncomfortable because they didn't toe the line set by them.
I don't mind beards, but please fellows, make them look appropriate and aesthetic.
Well after winning the WC '92 Final i recall some players fell on their knees to perform the Sajda
Now back to PD's view ..... i think he is absolutly right ..... it's hypocricy of the highest level when on one hand u cheat ur country, evase taxes and on the other hand portray as a religious person knowing the popular sentiments back home
