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*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
I see very happy people at the deaths of people who were neither tried nor represented. Truly, man can sink quickly to barbarism.
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you better believe it
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*Originally posted by spoon: *
Regarding Nadia's question of legality, there is one that comes up with this.. can we show pictures of the bodies?
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Excellent question. No easy answers.
Reports today are that the Iraqi people want proof of the deaths. For many, that means seeing pictures of the bodies no matter how mangled and ugly they might be. It may come down to the cultural acceptance of showing such things. Typically, in our society in the US, we don't show grisly pictures of bodies. It seems more acceptable in Iraq.
Frankly, we can't win regardless of what we do. If we show pictures, human rights groups will blast us and claim we violated numerous provisions of the Geneva convention or other rules of war. If we don't show them, many Iraqis won't believe these thugs are dead. Even if we show pictures, others will claim they are faked and that the sons are still alive. I think we bite the bullet and give to the majority of Iraqi people what they want. If that's pictures, give them the pictures. If they want the bodies to drag through the streets or hang on meat hooks like Mussolini, I say give them the bodies.
Well one thing is for certain, the bodies need to be buried.
So I say give the bodies to a Friendly Mullah who would then view the bodies and be sure that they are properly buried. The Mullah can then be interviewed by Al-Jazeera, and whom ever else, and verify the claim. That avoids some of the pitfalls that MyVoice describes....
OhioGuy:
That's not a bad idea. However, I think there's probably a lot of disagreement (even among Mullahs) as to what would constitute a "proper burial" for these two guys. The vision that keeps popping into my mind is the Saddam head being dragged through the streets of Baghdad with everyone and their brothers smacking it with shoes.
THe informant
THe informant who gave up the location of the butchers Uday and Qusay....are they heroes or traitors? Please explain why you feel either way.
thanks..
Re: THe informant
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
THe informant who gave up the location of the butchers Uday and Qusay....are they heroes or traitors? Please explain why you feel either way.
thanks..
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The one who turned in those who killed innocent people, raped young girls, and held a nation hostage with fear are neither a traitor nor a hero. To not turn these men in would make one be traitor to humanity. Doing what is right does not make one a hero. That said, I'll buy the man a beer or tea for doing the right thing.
Heroes. Rich heroes.
I agree with y'all..this guy should have his statue erected in Mosul and the day of their deaths declared a national day of celebration.
khas kam jahaan paak
these two brothers were monsters..they killed and rape many innocents..this world is better without them
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Here is an explaination from a somewhat dubious web site, often affiliated with the Mossad. An interesting account none the less.
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In a bizzare twist of events, in a morning briefing. Dep Defense Secretary Wolfowitz alluded to “return of homes” to Kurdish people. (I will try to get the transcript).
3)Wolfowitz met with Barzani while in Iraq.
http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=4124
My synthesis of these events is that the US may be on the brink of endorsing a quasi-Kurdish state, and that Wolfowitz quietly endorsing return of Northern Iraqi property would be the first step in establishing a virtually separate Kurdish state. This would give the Kurds sole responsibility for security in the North, freeing up one large division of US forces, and of course making the Turks (and the Iranians) utterly crazy. The Kurds have established trust and a good realtionship with the US military and administration, and in addition to the 30 million, more autonomy may be granted to the Kurds…
Account on Hussein brothers from Debka Files:
Talabani’s Kurdish Tribesmen Spotted Qusay, His Son Mustafa and Uday Hussein en Route to or from Syria
DEBKAfile World Exclusive
July 23, 2003, 1:16 AM (GMT+02:00)
Late Sunday night, July 20 - or early Monday morning - Qusay Hussein, his 14-year old son Mustafa and his brother Uday arrived at the spacious villa estate of their father’s cousin three times removed in the northeastern al Falah district of Mosul.
Qusay habitually took his teenage son everywhere to keep him safe for the succession, in case something happened to Saddam or himself. They were on their way to or from Syria. That cousin, Marwan Zeidan of the Abu Nasser tribe, is one of Mosul’s richest and most colorful figures. He owns the biggest clay brick factory in town and the largest used car agency in the region. Unlike other Iraqi towns, where the different communities live in separate neighborhoods, Mosul is mixed; Sunnis, Arabs, Kurds and Turkemen live cheek by jowl on the same streets as neighbors.
This population admixture was the cause of the downfall of Udai and Qusai Hussein.
The Al Falah district is shared by Sunnis and Kurds. Zeidan’s villa is surrounded by Kurdish families loyal to Jalal Talabani, head of the Kurdish Patriotic Union, the PUK, and a member of the new 25-man Iraqi governing council.
These neighbors were the first to catch sight of Saddam’s sons when they arrived at the villa.
According to DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources, a group went running to their leader’s nearest military headquarters to bring him the news in person. Talabani, who also happens to rent one of the Saddam family’s villas in Salman Pak, went straight off to US administration offices in Baghdad, where deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfovitz is presently based for his week’s stay in Iraq. The Kurdish leader and US military chiefs conferred and decided that PUK intelligence would go ahead and secretly surround the Zeidan villa and bar it to both ingress and egress, also installing sensors and eavesdropping devices. The Kurdish agents were instructed to prepare the site for the US special forces to come in by helicopter and seize the building and Saddam’s two sons.
DEBKAfile’s military sources report that in retrospect these careful advance arrangements were seen to be superfluous. The two brothers and the teenager were inside the villa with only a single bodyguard. The circle of people whom they trusted had apparently shrunk to almost nil. Saddam may be in the same boat. They ventured into a district which far from being out of the way is lively and crowded. This signified that they had experienced some unexpected holdup and been forced to break their journey to or from the Syrian border only 35 miles away at the home of their father’s cousin.
According to our sources, their visit was unexpected. Zeidan, his wife and 19-year old son were arrested after the US raid on their home. The American-Kurdish command decided to occupy the houses around the target villa before the main assault. A US special force of some 200 commandos landed early Tuesday, July 22, and opened fire on the villa. The three Husseins and their bodyguard went down shooting, overwhelmed by US ground fire and helicopter-fired missiles. The US commander waited two or three hours before giving the order to storm the property in case more people were hiding in cellars or outhouses or trying to escape through hidden exits. Pilot-less Predator drones were lofted to survey the property from all sides. However when the troops went in, they found no one but the charred, bullet-riddled bodies of Saddam’s two sons, his grandson and their bodyguard.
Talabani’s Kurdish followers will no doubt claim the $30 million bounty promised by the US government for the capture of the two sons of the deposed ruler.
Saddam himself still eludes capture along with his cached weapons of mass destruction. According to DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources, President George W. Bush and British prime minister Tony Blair are in the process of assembling a mass of material evidence of this arsenal to be released soon.
i have just seen the controversial pics of the alleged dead bros (uday and qusay) i t6hink they are FAKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! have a good look at them they are probably some badly burn’t person who’s shakal is totally gone badly burn;'t which makes it hard for ppl to recognise them, and the us is claiming they are dead, i think this is a hoax to win over the iraqi ppl, they aren’t dead, if they were why not atleast make a decent effort in producing GENUINE pics… the real reason is this, the u.s can’t find them their soldiers sorry did i say soldiers i mean mercenaries are scared that their buddies are dying left right centre they can’t hack it any more the cold blooded murders are tired they wanna go home, so the us is coming up with a plan of killing some normal iraqis, burning their bodies and producing them as evidence that these are saddam’s friends/sons etc soon we’ll see another headline that saddam has been killed and another burn’t pic will be telecasted for the world 2 see. hahhaaaaaaa i pity them and laugh at the us 
american intelligence :nono:
** Photos of the sons are released. **
But what US will benefit from em?? Their appearances were soo different from theier alive pictures that the comparison is difficult.
I remember when Al jazeera released the pictures of US soldiers captured earlier in Iraq, US dubbed those releases as **un ethical **, **immoral ** etc etc, and they are doing those things themselves…
Highly democratic move by G.w (Great Waste) Bush administration. 
http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?c=news_photos&p=uday+qusay+corpse
see this link the pics are fabricated they aren’t even uday or qusay all fake i knew it :ahaa: just another publicity stunt pulled by cnn/bush to show that PROGRESS is being made hhaaaaa no progress no alleged W.M.D found, no sons or father etc
With so much media interest in this story, it would have made a lot of sense to give access to the media into the building and to the bodies and they would film them all they want and show them to the world (with appropriate graphical content warnings and analysis). If US forces had the dead bodies, it doesn't have to be so complex.
First we hear the GREAT news that the sons are dead. Stock Market climbs up on the news. Its a great story from Iraq coming on the heels of all the scandal erupting in London and DC about Uranium and shoddy intelligence. How convenient timing!
We are told that "multiple sources" have identified the bodies. Then we hear that the bodies are being flown out of Iraq to an unspecified location. A few days later, they announce that the pics will be released which will conclusively show to the Iraqi people that the sons are dead. The pics are released of two heavily bearded fellows, who for what its worth, can be anyone. They released an x-ray to show his earlier assassination attempt. And thats supposed to be conclusive?
I don't know if they are dead or alive, or US had their bodies all along. But if it did kill them, and has positive ID and the bodies, this whole drama of hiding their bodies and showing grainy, unclear pics is just creating more controversy. The people are still talking about fake moon landing in 1969, and this is just going to keep the Elvis alive.
US could have done a lot better. Open media access and complete third party verification. By the media coverage, it would seem, this is really BIG news. Excuses of "gory" pics and "war rules" are just not gonna fly here. The way they handled this one, they can "kill" Saddam anytime and show us some grainy, bearded fellow's distorted image and say "hurray! here we go". This is so silly.
I wish I had a shekel for every conspiracy theory conjured up here. I’d be rich!
Apparently the 25 members of the Iraqi Governing Council will also be shown the bodies. This would include a number of leading clerics.
Other than that you could give individual DNA results to every Arab, and they would still ask if Steven Spielberg took the sample. There will be a percentage who choose to never believe that they are gone. Conspiracy theories are great fun, and make it possible for the ignorant to pretend to be smarter than everyone else.
If Uday or Qusay show up in your neighborhood selling girl scout cookies let me know. Otherwise they are room temperature......
There is no conspiracy theory. Its just as simple as that if US has killed them and has bodies, then it really didn't had to be so complicated. They could just have allowed CNN, NBC, Fox etc all go into the building with their cameras rolling and make movies of the bodies. The whole world will see the bodies and the "Provisional Authority" in Baghdad did not need to issue "graphical" pictures to prove anything. Its all out in the open.
We see horrific war pics all the time. We saw the boy in Palestine die in front of TV cameras cowed behind his father. We saw Ceasesco (Romania) get shot and killed by the firing squad right in front of TV cameras for all the world to see, so there are no confusions later on. That is how uncomplicated it is, when you have nothing to hide. You tell me, what does US hopes to accomplish to keep it all shrouded in a cloak of secrecy and limited information? Are you seriously suggesting that US didn't want to publicize these pics was for fear of some Arabs crying that it is against the War ethics? Get real, plz!
For all I know, the sons are dead, and killed by 101st Airborne. Yes. Sure. But the way US handled this was highly confusing to say the least. It just smacks of suspicion that they were really trying to hide something there. It doesn't help that the faces are so badly distorted and the dudes look so different from their previously published pics.
US military has always maintained a similar stance of not showing dead combatants or it's own soldiers. It is the twisted thinking of the people in the middleeast and other msulims nations of demanding proof, well here you go. Now the proof is not good enough. Next it will be martyrdom and prayers on friday to commemorate the deaths of these tyrants. I wonder if these people ever take a step back and think.
There will be DNA tests, there will be confirmation from the Iraqis themselves but it won't be good enough.
Accodring to some..US should have shot them precisely in their arms and legs as to conserve their faces for satisfying the dimwit conspiracy theorists. Wah!!!
“BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqis said on Thursday they were not convinced by photographs of the bodies of Saddam Hussein’s sons and demanded the corpses should be dragged through the streets as proof the feared brothers were dead.”
…
“Death is not enough. They should have been hung up on poles in a square in Baghdad so all Iraqis could see them. Then they should have died as people ate them alive,” said businessman Khalil Ali. “The photographs do not mean anything.”
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““We will believe they are dead when Uday and Qusay’s bodies are tied to cars and dragged through the streets so everybody can see them,” said Muhammad, an engineer.”
I say, give them the bodies.
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I say, give them the bodies.
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I agree, after the DNA is done.