Sad state of Muslims today

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

By the way, I can't pick out the tone of that saying of yours as to if it is sarcastic or not. Anyway, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Do download the Maktabah Shamila for the reference for all those quotes. But to get you started here are two of the quotes of Imam Malik with their chains which you can verify. While you are at it don't forget to download the books even if you cannot read Arabic. Perhaps they will motivate you to learn the language!
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أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْمُؤْمِنِ ، نا أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ الْقَاضِي الْمَالِكِيُّ , نا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ ، نا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ الْمُنْذِرِ ، نا مَعْنُ بْنُ عِيسَى ، قَالَ : سَمِعْتُ مَالِكَ بْنَ أَنَسٍ ، يَقُولُ : " إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ ، أُخْطِئُ وَأُصِيبُ ، فَانْظُرُوا فِي رَأْيِي ، فَكُلَّمَا وَافَقَ الْكِتَابَ وَالسُّنَّةَ فَخُذُوا بِهِ , وَكُلَّمَا لَمْ يُوَافِقِ الْكِتَابَ وَالسُّنَّةَ , فَاتْرُكُوهُ " . وَذَكَرَ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مَرْوَانَ الْمَالِكِيُّ ، عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرِ بْنِ رِشْدِينَ ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْمُنْذِرِ ، عَنْ مَعْنٍ ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ ، مِثْلَهُ . **

That is the first quote of Imam Malik I posted.

The second one I left untranslated since it is a quote which has been attributed to Imam Malik but is actually the quote of many of the people of Knowledge before him. Here is the complete list of scholars of that saying with the chains for your verification purposes.

ليس أحد بعد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم إلا ويؤخذ من قوله ويترك إلا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

There is no one after the Prophet (PBUH) except that it will be taken from his saying and rejected except the Prophet (PBUH).

لمشهور أن هذه الكلمة تنسب إلى الإمام مالك رحمه الله ، ولكنها قد جاءت عن غيره ممن قبله من أهل العلم

That which is popular is that these words are attributed to Imam Malik but they have come from others than him who preceded him (in time) from the People of knowledge.

**

وقال أبو نعيم في حلية الأولياء ج: 3 ص: 300
حدثنا محمد بن احمد بن موسى العدوي ثنا اسماعيل بن سعيد ينوي أخبرنا سفيان عن عبدالكريم عن مجاهد قال ليس أحد إلا يؤخذ من قوله ويترك إلا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم**

Mujahid said it and the above is with the chain of narrators
**
وقال أبو نعيم في حلية الأولياء ج: 3 ص: 300
حدثنا محمد بن احمد بن موسى العدوي ثنا اسماعيل بن سعيد ينوي أخبرنا سفيان عن عبدالكريم عن مجاهد قال ليس أحد إلا يؤخذ من قوله ويترك إلا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم**

Another chain of narrators for Mujahid
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وقال البيهقي في المدخل إلى السنن الكبرى ج: 1 ص: 107
30 أخبرنا أبو بكر بن الحارث أبنا أبو محمد بن حيان ثنا ابراهيم بن محمد بن الحسن ثنا عبد الجبار ثنا سفر عن عبدالكريم عن مجاهد قال ليس أحد إلا يؤخذ من قوله ويترك من قوله إلا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

31 وروينا معناه عن عامرالشعبي **

A third chain of narrators for Mujahid
**
وقال العراقي في تخريج أحاديث الإحياء

حديث ابن عباس ( ما من أحد إلا يؤخذ من علمه ويترك إلا رسول الله ) الطبراني من حديثه يرفعه بلفظه من قوله ويدع**

أخرجه الطبراني في " المعجم الكبير " جـ 11 : ص 339 ، قال : حدثنا أحمد بن عمرو البزار ، ثنا زياد بن أيوب ، ثنا أبوعبيدة الحداد ، عن مالك بن دينار ، عن عكرمة ، عن بن عباس - رضي الله عنهما - رفعه ، قال : " ليس أحد إلا يؤخذ من قوله ، ويدع ، غير النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - " .

The above has also been said by Ibn Abbas (RA) and the above is the complete chain of narrators (the second line).

If you have trouble with the Arabic let me know. In case you can't find anyone to confirm the translations, I will give you complete breakdown of the Nahw and Sarf of the quote you like so that you can understand it!

This should get you started. Then once you have downloaded the Maktaba Shamila you can find the rest of the quotes from the other Imams.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

ليس أحد بعد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم إلا يؤخذ من قوله ويترك إلا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى الله عليه وسلم

Here is a quick breakdown of one of the quotes above to help you in your verification process.

**ليس **

This is a verb of negation and is in its third person singular masculine form. Without an added subject it means He is not, He does not exist

أحد

This word is a noun which means someone or anyone and is indefinite in this case (does not have Alif Laam attached to it). It is the subject of the above verb and this is realized by assuming the vowel dammah on its last letter which is Daal. When used with a verb of negation it means no one.

** بعد **

This word means after and is a preposition known as a Harf in Arabic - particles which convey no meaning of their own unless they are attached to a verb or noun.

**النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم **

The word Al-Nabi means the Prophet and is the Majuur of the preposition before it and hence the last letter will take Kasra. Together with the preposition before it, it forms a prepositional phrase.

Hence, so far the sentence reads

There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH)

إلا

This is a particle of exception. It introduces a clause introducing an exception, Istithna, to a previous negative clause. Hence, the sentence

There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH) except

**يؤخذ من قوله ويترك **

This is the clause indicating the exception. It consists of a verb ( يؤخذ in the passive voice and in the present tense in the singular masculine form) followed by a preposition ( من from, or partitive of) which is forming a prepositional phrase with the noun ( قوله his saying - this being a Mudaaf and Mudaaf Ilahi) which follows it, meaning

a portion of or from his saying will be taken

the next two words include the conjunction ( و and ) and the verb (يترك to abandon) in the passive voice and in the masculine singular form meaning it will be rejected, the total phrase meaning

a portion of or from his saying will be taken and rejected

Finally, another clause introducing an exception follows which exempts the Prophet (PBUH) from this previous phrase and means
except the Prophet (PBUH)

The sentence meaning

There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH), except a portion of (or from) his saying will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet (PBUH)

Finally, since one learns from others on a forum, please do put up what the scholars of الجرح والتعديل have said regarding the narrators in the chains I put up above.

If you need help with this here are some books on this topic which you can download

  1. Book by Ibn Hatim on scrutiny of chain of narrators](http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=3593)
  2. Many books on الجرح والتعديل

In case you need help with the words which are specific to this science, you can download the following dictionary specific for these terms
**
العنوان : معجم ألفاظ الجرح والتعديل - مع تراجم موجزة لأئمّة الجرح والتعديل

المؤلف : عبد الماجد الغوري

تاريخ الطبع : الطبعة الأولى ،2007**](http://www.booksjadid.com/2012/07/blog-post_21.html)

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Peace ZeeshanParvez

JazakAllahuKhair for the links ... They will take me a long time to verify, you seemed to do a very quick breakdown and included an Arabic lesson in the process ... That as very impressive ... MashaAllah. There is little to disagree on ... Perhaps the only thing is the cause of the intensity ... I feel I have found the scholars who know and who have lots of support from others, they have strong connections and many ijazas that is for me reason to follow them ... Of course if anything disturbs me about what they say I question it ... So inshaAllah I am not following anyone blindly ... But truly I cannot speak on behalf of others.

By by the way stick around and welcome to GS. :)

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

I would not say anything about what you mentioned because I didn't understand it ... Apologies.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

I could have explained for you but I know what the problem is :)

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Jazzak Allahu Khaira for the kind words. I guess we both agree in Itiba and May Allah keep you and me guided. You are one of the few people I have met on forums who has shown such Adab. Most people on the forums are quite rude and that is why I usually do not frequent forums.

I will be posted more things on Islam in this forum and have nothing against anyone disagreeing. It is only sarcastic remarks and lack of Adab which really gets to me. Your attitude on the other hand is very encouraging. May Allah reward you. I remember reading a Hadith where it was said that the people closest to the Messenger (PBUH) on the Day of Judgement will be those with the best Ikhlaq. Will try to find it ان شاء الله.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Brother ZeeshanParvez

A couple of questions from the above …

Firstly, I thought ba’d is a zarf and not a harf … zarf-zamaan, because it can decline like other nouns whereas the haroof are mabnee. Anyway the majruur of “nabi” will not change, except it will be called mudaaf ilay which is majruur. Please clarify.

Also, the final sentence that has been constructed makes no “actual” sense to me and I have gone through it a few times … I know illa can take several meanings and because there are no harakat it is hard to decipher whether the verb is passive subjunctive or active subjunctive or just passive present … All the harf "waw"s may not be ataf (and) in meaning and may take slightly variant meanings. Also, the phrase SalAllahu’alaihi wassalam is mentioned twice … And that may be why the meaning is not coming out in the English form yet. Please study the sentence a bit more and help me out make sense of it.

**There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH), except a portion of (or from) his saying will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet (PBUH)

**This makes no actual sense yet - I think the answer may lie in subjunctive verbs.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Arabs only divide words into

Nouns - Ism
Verbs - Fa'l
Particles - harf

Harf includes both haruuf zaman and haruuf jar. Both in English are known as prepositions. And after both the word will be in the genitive case known in Arabic as majruur.

The mention of Salau alayhi wasalm twice was an error in my typing which I noticed later. Sorry for that.

The verb cannot be in the active voice and this is indicated by the waw in يؤخذ . For it to be in the active it has to be يأخذ . The root of the word is أخذ Words which have Hamzah seated on an Alif as the first letter take waw with hamza on it in the passive voice.

And what part of the English sentence doe not make sense? I am assuming it is the double illa which has been used. It will make sense if you take the phrase "after the Prophet" to be a prepositinal phrase acting as an adjecitve in English. In that case it is a Fadl in Arabic, which means a phrase giving extra information without which the sentence is compelte. Hence, for a minute omit it and it would read

There is nobody except his sayings will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet.

Now if the first illa is confusing you then note that the phrase except followed an entire sentence is used by the Arabs often is different from the English exceptive clause. You have to add the idea of "in a state" along with the clause which is a sort of descriptive clause after the illa. So you would say

There is no one except (he is in the state) that his sayings will be taken and rejected except the Prophet (PBUH).

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Peace brother ZeeshanParvez

The zaroof (Zarf) I was talking about are a special kind of ism ... We call it (Zarf) adverb in English. It is because they decline whereas the haruf are mabnee ... Al-Yawma is an example of Zarfu-zaman and huna is an example of zarfu-makan... I'm sure you have done this ... Anyway ...

I still don't understand the sentence being formed in English. I'm busy at the moment but shall inshaAllah take another look later. If I still don't understand it there might be a problem that I might have to just accept an opinion on it ... A kind of taqleed perhaps? I agree it must be passive the first verb gives it away as you rightly stated the second verb will follow the first verb in state so the waw here is of inclusion not of separation.

also ... I know ba'd means "after" ... But what about when it appears as a Zarf shibhu-jumla? .. When it appears as a shibhu-jumla then it can take the meaning "some of" ... May be that will help?

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Additionally if the above quote still is not making sense then simply refer to similar quotes in that post to better help you. Consider this quote of Ibn Abbas (RA)

عن بن عباس - رضي الله عنهما - رفعه ، قال : " ليس أحد إلا يؤخذ من قوله ، ويدع ، غير النبي

There is no one except that a portion of his saying will be taken and abandoned other than the Prophet (PBUH)

In this the word ghair has been used instead of illa. Both are أَداة استثناء words of exception.

If you took out the ghair and the phrase following it the English would be

There is no one except that his saying is taken and rejected

In this sentence everyone would be included. We need to except the Prophet (PBUH) from the phrase his (PBUH) saying is only taken and cannot be rejected. Hence the need for a second particle of exception which in this case is Gharia.

If you really want to get nitty gritty about the specifics of the above phrase(s) you can ask native Arabs on this forum in the Arabic section. They answer in English. That should dispel any doubts you have.

Additionally, I did a search and thefollowing website which has put the vowel inflections on it and you can see that the verb you were talking about is not in the subjunctive because had it been it would taken Fatha but as seen in the example below it has dammah.

قَالَ:لَيْسَ أَحَدٌ إِلا يُؤْخَذُ مِنْ قَوْلِهِ وَيَدَعُ غَيْرَ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ

And you really don’t have to do Taqleed of what I have translated! There are probably people in your area well versed in Arabic and better at explaining then I am. You could always ask them. Then based on their explanation you could take these quotes which would be Itiba (following after seeing the evidence)!!

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

How many people have the resources and ability to do this for everything brother? InshaAllah ?I’ll do some work on this and come back to you. The above translation still does not make sense to me … To say “there is no one except his (Nabi (SAW)) saying is taken and rejected” meaning

“everyone will reject the sayings of the Prophet (SAW)”

I can’t see that as accurate translation.

however it helps because now some parts are clearer … I would not trust the native Arabs by the way … They speak very simple Arabic and they will confuse me more, unless of course they know English very well and have studied grammar …

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

You seem to have reworded it wrong. The saying means everything anyone other than the Prophet (PBUH) says can be taken and it can be rejected but what the Prophet (PBUH) says will be taken completely without any rejection.

As for you question about how many people can do this, then consider this - children can go to school for 12 years and then study for 5 more years and some spend another 2 years for post graduate studies but do not have time for Islam? If Arabic is taught from the beginning until a person reaches 12 grade he would have Arabic on his finger tips. And if this is not done, as is the unfortunate case, then it is necessary that a person take out time and study. Think of the countless hours we spend on forums, watching TV, chit chatting, going outdoors for dinner but when it comes to Religion we say we will leave it all to the scholars. If we go out to buy a new car we search on the Internet and ask many experts in the automobile industry their views regarding which car is the best so that we can make an informed decision but when it comes to Religion we say we will listen to only our "sheikh" and no one else and we don't even try to investigate the matter.

We are told that we can't understand the rulings and that we need to be at a high level of Ijtihad to decide anything. Brother was this Religion only meant for a select few?

If you spend just one hour a day you can complete an elementary course of Arabic in a year which will set you up for advanced studies. Keep taking out a little bit of time and you will master Arabic and be able to read the books on Usul Ul fiqh, Mustalaul Hadith, Tafseer, Hadith, Usul Tafseer, and be in a much better position to understand what you are following and the views of those who disagree with you.

Blind taqleed which we hardly practice for worldly matters has been reserved by us for Religious matters and puts us in our comfort zone one which we do not want to leave and this blind acceptance of our views closes our mind leading to the fanatisicism prevalent in the Ummah today.

Only knowledge of Religion in its true sense can take us out of the pit we have thrown ourselves into.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Ok first thing ... Laysa ahadun ... Does not mean "there is no one" ... It means "one is not" ...

Second thing ... About the inflections ... A-kha-tzha ...

1) Active-Perfect is mujarrad ...akhazha
2) Active-Subjunctive is alif between the first two radicals and fathhah on the last radical making ya'khuzha.

3) Active-Imperfect is ya'khuzhu
4) Active-Jussive is ya'khuzh.
5) Passive-Perfect is ukhizha
6) Passive-Subjunctive is yukhazha
7) Passive-Imperfect is yukhazhu
8) Passive-Jussive is yukhazh.

All 8 are muzakkar, mufrad and 3rd person.

Of these 8 ... The last three are candidates ... I'm looking at the khabaru laysa ... The rule is that it should be in nasb ... It is possible that one of the terms here are "fi mahalli nasb" ...

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

OK brother you are now arguing semantics. The meaning of those quotes I posted is indisputable. They CANNOT be read in any other way. You can confirm their meaning from anyone who knows Arabic. They are all in very basic Arabic. I know you as many people have trouble accepting that Taqleed should be rejected but the fact remains that it was not endorsed by these Imams as the quotes show. The best thing you can do is either learn Arabic or ask anyone in your area to confirm what I have said. I would be willing to take an oath on the correctness of what I have posted. Anyway I am done in this particular thread.

Taqleed was prohibited by the Imams as anyone who knows Arabic can confirm from what I have posted. Salams.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

One last thing brother. To say Arabs know very little Arabic is ignorance. If you spend time on their forums and websites you will be quite surprised to learn that they have the rules of Nahw on their fingertips. Rather it is the Maulvis of our subcontinent who do Darse Nizami and still can't read a word of Arabic properly!

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

And there is no khabar of laysa in that quote because of which I translated it as there is no one. A rule you can read about in W.Wright A grammar of Classical Arabic which is a book used to teach Arabic at the Masters level. You can download the book from here. Read about the use of Kana on page 302 of volume 2 as Kana Taamah and Kana Naaqisah.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

JazakAllahuKhair I’ll read that …

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

To go to any site where there are Arab that I do not know is taqleed and I as you said earlier do itiba not taqleed, I will go to people who have ijaza even if they non-Arabs. Here in Qatar an Arab country I have a friend who is from Pakistani background raised in Canada an is teaching Arabic grammar at university level to Arab students and foreigners alike ... Why would they source a non-Arab to teach their language grammar at university level?

If you learn about the history of grammar in Arabic you will find that most of the work was done by initially non-Arabs i.e. Persians and later by the non-Muslims of Europe. There are some great grammarians who Arabs too though ... And they are most in Syria and across Northern Africa.

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Dear brother ZeeshanParvez ... I am not arguing semantics ... There is a huge difference in the phrase "there is no one" from the phrase "one is not" the former negates the existence of the noun, the latter negates the possibility of the noun (that exists) being something.

And because I didn't say that I know Arabic grammar you should not assume that I have not been studying it ... I am on book 3 Arabic grammar on the Madinah course ... And I have started to take Al-Ajrumiyyah lessons too. I'm not saying I am brilliant ... But I can tell you that sentence is not a simple one and your translations do not make sense in English ... If they do then please explain them in English even ...

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Re: Sad state of Muslims today

Taqleed was not prohibited but the Imams did not want repetition of their mistakes. Furthermore everything from the four schools has been scrutinized and verified. The Imams gave legal verdicts, this is a proof that Taqleed is to be done. Do you really want 'Vroom' here to make my own fiqh and verdicts?

You are propagating a methodology that is haram, that is why you can find the motivation to do so. Jurisprudence of the Four schools is our strongest point in Sunni Islam, it is not something which we are 'astray' on. It was made by Salaf and early Khalaf. I should think you will not be able to take the high ground (Najd) on this

The most you can say to someone like me is to make taqleed, not of the four schools, but to make taqleed of non taqleedis (who came into being after a man said 'no-one knew tawheed before me, if they claim to have done so, then they are liars'.) So its basically a swapping of who we make taqleed of

I am not 100% certain that you know what you are propagating because if you did you will know that it is a swapping of who we make taqleed of. a statement of ''Don't follow them, follow us we are marketing to grow our movement''