As a person born into a Hanafi household if I choose to reject a verdict from the Hanafis which calls for prostration to be wajib at the time of hearing the Verses of prostration in favor of what Hazart Umar (RA) said about it being a Sunnah and not fard - something based on which the Shafis and Hanbalis have also said that this act is a Sunnah and not Wajib - is HARAM then this haram act is more beloved to me than everything in the world.
If Allah Wills, we will discuss this HARAM manner of Itiba - following an opinion with evidences - in front of Allah on the Day of Judgement!
و سجود التلاوة سنة عند جمهور الفقهاء وهو الصحيح لأنه ثبت في صحيح البخاري أن عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله تعالى عنه: (قرأ يوم الجمعة على المنبر بسورة النحل حتى إذا جاء السجدة نزل فسجد وسجد الناس حتى إذا كانت الجمعة القابلة قرأ بها حتى إذا جاء السجدة قال: يا أيها الناس إنا نمر بالسجود فمن سجد فقد أصاب ومن لم يسجد فلا إثم عليه ولم يسجد عمر رضي الله تعالى عنه)
Paraphrase of the above
And the prostration of Tilawa is a Sunnah with the Majority of jurists and it is the correct (opinion) becuase it has been proven in Shaih Bukhari that Umar Ibn Khattab (RA) recited Surat-an-Nahl on a Friday on the pulpit and when he reached the verse of Sajda he got down from the pulpit and prostrated and the people also prostrated. The next Friday Umar bin Al-Khattab recited the same Sura and when he reached the verse of Sajda he said, "O people! When we recite the verses of Sajda (during the sermon) whoever prostrates does the right thing, yet it is no sin for the one who does not prostrate." And Umar did not prostrate (that day). Added Ibn `Umar “Allah has not made the prostration of recitation compulsory but if we wish we can do it.”
وأقره الصحابة على ذلك ولم ينكر عليه أو يخالفه أحد فدل ذلك على إجماع الصحابة وهذا فيه رد لقول من أوجب سجود التلاوة. ولا حجة صحيحة لمن أوجب سجود التلاوة على قارئ السجدة
And the above
And the Companions did not rebuke him on this point nor did they oppose him and this shows that there was an Ijma of the Sahabah and in this is a Rad upon he who says that the Sajdah Tilawah is a Wajib.
So you see, if I follow this despite being a Hanafi - people start saying HARAM HARAM. Very sad indeed. Well, we shall know on the day of Judgement what is HARAM and what is not!!!
Dear brother ZeeshanParvez ... I am not arguing semantics ... There is a huge difference in the phrase "there is no one" from the phrase "one is not" the former negates the existence of the noun, the latter negates the possibility of the noun (that exists) being something.
And because I didn't say that I know Arabic grammar you should not assume that I have not been studying it ... I am on book 3 Arabic grammar on the Madinah course ... And I have started to take Al-Ajrumiyyah lessons too. I'm not saying I am brilliant ... But I can tell you that sentence is not a simple one and your translations do not make sense in English ... If they do then please explain them in English even ...
Good once you finish the 3rd level of those books and then read up on advanced grammar you will realize that when in the indefinite form of Ahad is used in Negation the word takes the sense of "nobody." Until then I shall leave you at your beliefs.
If they do then please explain them in English even ...
I kept the translation as close to the Arabic as possible so that I am not accused of "messing with the Arabic."
Either wise in simple English phrase is simple. Sayings from people in respect to knowledge will be accepted and they will be rejected. The only exception is that of the Prophet (PBUH) whose sayings will ALWAYS be taken. The reason for rejecting other peoples sayings was clarified in the following quote of Imam Malik
إنما أنا بشر أخطئ وأصيب فانظروا في رأيي فكل ما وافق الكتاب والسنة فخذوه وكل ما لم يوافق الكتاب والسنة فاتركوه
Verily, I am only a human (hopefully you should understand this easily as it is a simple nominal sentence). I make mistakes (again a simple first person verb) and I am in the right (i.e I make correct decisisons easy sentence again as it is simply a verb in its 4th form in the first person), so look into my opinions (easy sentence consisting of a verb of command followed by a prepositional phrase) and all that which is in accordance with the Book and the Sunnah, take it. And all that which is not in accordance with the Book and Sunnah leave it.
I don't think you should have problem with that one. And nor should you find my translation difficult to understand. And it should clear up what the other quote of his means.
To go to any site where there are Arab that I do not know is taqleed and I as you said earlier do itiba not taqleed, I will go to people who have ijaza even if they non-Arabs. Here in Qatar an Arab country I have a friend who is from Pakistani background raised in Canada an is teaching Arabic grammar at university level to Arab students and foreigners alike ... Why would they source a non-Arab to teach their language grammar at university level?
Then the matter is sooo simple. Give him the quotes and he can confirm what they mean. Simple.
And I don't see why you find what has been said in the quotes so difficult to accept if you truly do Itiba. That is what the Imams said. Do Itiba. Do not simply accept what we say until you know from where we got it? Why the fuss then???
PS: Good to know you actually have spent time studying Arabic. Very good to see.
Here are some quotes from the Quran and Hadith to prove to you that when the word Laysa is used with the indefinite form of Ahad it means total negation
There is no blame upon you for seeking bounty from your Lord [during Hajj]. But when you depart from 'Arafat, remember Allah at al- Mash’ar al-Haram. And remember Him, as He has guided you, for indeed, you were before that among those astray.
Muhsin Khan
There is no sin on you if you seek the Bounty of your Lord (during pilgrimage by trading, etc.). Then when you leave 'Arafat, remember Allah (by glorifying His Praises, i.e. prayers and invocations, etc.) at the Mash’ar-il-Haram. And remember Him (by invoking Allah for all good, etc.) as He has guided you, and verily, you were, before, of those who were astray.
Shakir
There is no blame on you in seeking bounty from your Lord, so when you hasten on from “Arafat”, then remember Allah near the Holy Monument, and remember Him as He has guided you, though before that you were certainly of the erring ones.
Dr. Ghali
In this example of the Quran Juunah is an indefinite noun and when Laysa is its verb it shows total negation.
And here is a quick breakdown for you to better understand Laysa, which is Naqisah by nature, but is used as Taamah.
معنى هذا الكلام :
**أن كان وأخواتها يصح أن تكون ناقصة ويصح أن تكون تامة **
***فالناقصة : *** من كان وأخواتها تحتاج إلى ما تنصبه فلا تكتفي بمرفوعها ** بينماالتامة:
** تكتفي بالمرفوع ولا تطلب ما تنصبه
**فيجوز في " كان " وفي أخواتها أن تكتفي بمرفوعها ويجوز أن تكون ناقصة ** وأما نقصانها فكما مر معنا :
**كان زيد قائما **
**مادام زيد مجتهدا **
**أصبح زيدٌ عالما ** إذاً : هذه هي الناقصة رفعت الاسم ونصبت الخبر
ويجوز أن تكون تامة :
**وبالتالي فلا تدخل معنا في هذا الباب فلا نقول لها اسم هذا اسم كان
أو خبر كان **
**لا هي فعل تام ** قال عز وجل: ((وَإِن كَانَ ذُو عُسْرَةٍ فَنَظِرَةٌ إِلَى مَيْسَرَةٍ ))
**كان : هنا تامة ** نقول : كان : **فعل ماض تام ** ذو :فاعل إن قدرنا كان بمعنى حصل إن حصل ذو عسرة ** قوله عز وجل :
** ((مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ )) ((وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ سُعِدُواْ فَفِي الْجَنَّةِ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ عَطَاء غَيْرَ مَجْذُوذٍ{108} ))
**دام هنا تامة تحتاج إلى مرفوع فقط ما نحتاج فيها إلى منصوب **
Paraphrase of the above:
It is proper to use Kaana and its sisters as either Naaqisah or Taamah (Laysa is from among the sisters of Kaana)
Naaqisah is when the verb requires both a subject (Marfuu) and a object (Mansoob). It is proper that Kaana and its sisters - Laysa being one of them - be used with a subject only, in this case it would be Taamah, or with subject and object - in this case it would be Naaqisah.
Examples
**كان زيد قائما **
Zeid was standing.
This is how Laysa is also used when Naaqisah and is causing you to have trouble understanding the quote I posted. In those quotes it is being used without a Khabar and hence is being used as a Taamah verb.
And when these verbs are used as Taamah it is not proper to say Ismu Kana and Khabar Kana.
Hopefully, this crash course will clear some of your doubts and will better enable you to understand what is written in W.Wright as that books is a bit terse.
Please be patient with me ... The meaning of laysa I understand ... It is the way it is to be constructed in to English without changing the meaning that I was trying to do.
The opposite of laysa is kana ... Which means (to be/was) ... So saying ... Kana ahad huna means "one was here" ... So the opposite of this is "one was not here" which is to be said like this in Arabic ... "Laysa ahad huna".
To say "no one exists" in Arabic we have to say "La yakoonu ahad"
I don't know about taamah .... I will learn that inshaAllah.
Sorry if I appear impatient. I am a very bad teacher I must admit.
OK, as soon as you learn Taamah it will all be clear.
And the “no one exists” when used with Laysa means “no one exists in the state of being.” The one with La yakoonu ahad would mean he does not exist in the word. Therefore, the arabic dictionary defines laysa as كلمةٌ دالَّة على نفي الحال a word which shows the negation of Haal, i.e state of being.
Even in the sentence
**ليس في الدار أحد
**You need to realize that it actually means no one exists in the state of being (present) in the house. This is because in English we simply consider the prepositional phrase to act as the predicate but in Arabic the Grammarians say that their is a Hazaf (omiision) of the word Maujuud or Mustakar before the prepositional phrase which begins with fee.
So lets first take the above sentence without laysa and it would mean******في الدار أحد
******One (meaning someone since it is indefinite) is in the house (Propherly written in English as There is someone in the house)
Here in English we would consider the phrase in the house to be the prepositional phrase acting as the predicate.
But according to the Arabs in such phrases there is a Hazaf of مودود or مستقر which is actually the predicate and the Jaar wal Majruur is related to this predicate to specify the meaning.
Keeping this in mind when we add laysa to it it becomes
One (meaning no one because if not even one is present then that naturally means no one is) is (in the state of being) not present in the house
In English it would be properly translated as There is no one (present) in the house.
Keeping all this read up on the Laysa as Taamah where it only has a Faail and no Mafuul and the quote of Ibn Abbas (RA), Ibn Malik, and Mujahid will In sha Allah make sense. **
Here is another example from a Hadith in Muwatta Malik
وَإِذَا هَلَكَ الرَّجُلُ وَلَيْسَ مَعَهُ أَحَدٌ إِلاَّ نِسَاءٌ
**
And when a man dies (this is a clause beginning with izza and there is a verb with its Faail which simple to understand) and (note this part with laysa)** there is no one with him except females**..
Again no Khabar and the verb is only used with a Faail hence a Taamah usage. You can read the translation here in which it has been translated as when there are only women which is the equivalent to when no one is with him except females. Here is another example from Muwatta which is translated exactly as I do with there is no one**
There is no one (now the relative clause acting as an adjective for this Ahad) who is praying this prayer other than you.
**
There is no one (this following clause is a relative clause for no one and there is no allazi becuase in Arabic indefinite nouns do not take allazi instead the relative clause it attached directly as an adjective) whose deeds alone can’secure salvation for him
Note in this example again there is no Khabar as would be in the case of a Naaqisah usage such as
ليس الولد تاجرا
or
ليس الولد بتاجر
The boy is not a Taajir.
Finally, I would like to correct myself here and say that it is not proper to call Laysa, Laysa Taamah, but rather it is better to say Laysa which acts like the Kaana Taamah.
That last sentence should further clear up what is meant by this word when used in the negative.
Also do refer to page 99 Volume 2 of W.Wrights book for a detailed discussion of Kana Taamah. Since Laysa is used as its negative you need to first understand the Kana Taamah!
Firstly, that W. Wright book is a real gem ... I like it. Secondly, I have realised that I have no idea where to start in trying to translate the sentence myself without inflections. Lastly, let's come back to the meaning ...
There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH), except a portion of (or from) his saying will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet (PBUH)
You gave this before ... with previous explanations above you and I were saying the same thing ... So here you are saying ... Every person after the prophet (SAW) will have something taken from his sayings which will be rejected ... Except for the prophet (SAW) ...???
This does not make sense to me ... The except for the prophet (SAW) part makes no sense since the prophet (SAW) cannot be after himself, also that saying that everyone is deficient ... Which is true ... But it has no bearing on the topic of Taqlid. If it is meant to suggest that people will accept some things and reject other things ... Then I can quite earnestly say the Sahabah didn't reject anything ... So it can't be that either. I am truly confused with the meaning this collection of words is trying to present.
Do not make your religion the blind following of someone from among these. A man should follow what has been transmitted from the Prophet (PBUH) and the Companions.
In post #55 you gave the above ... I learn from teachers with ijaza that for me qualifies as "what has been transmitted from the Prophet (SAW) and the Companions"
It is because I trust them and the people who have trusted them enough to give them ijaza ... They further teach and show how to understand their teaching. It is better than reading a book in isolation, because ultimately we must trust the book author. It is better if the teacher we trust in gives us a book to learn from giving it his tacit approval. Taqlid is not blindly following someone ... That is a slur ... Taqlid is about placing trust in those who are learned and who have a legacy that goes back to the prophet (SAW) ... If you call this itiba ... so be it, then I do the same thing.
Zeeshan, the checking and verification of the positions of the four schools was done after the initial Imams had passed away. So the schools you have today have legitimate positions that are checked and verified at least by the scholars who followed, if not also approved as legitimate positions by the other schools
I do not know what books you have been reading, I can see what they want to portray but be careful. If anyone ever tries to make the Muslims look as fools we can be assured that we are the fools but we know not. This principle applies to me as well as you, unfortunately the Salafi movement is based on making ordinary Muslims to look as fools. It is very attractive to take your chair (and stand on it) and judge the people through what you have prepared as a humiliation for them, by means of making new rules (such as Hadith authentication), definitions (such as Bidah) and manhajs (a watered down (easier to follow) version of the religion of Najdiyah movement.)
Don’t take the chair brother, stand with us on low ground and yes we will look up at our Beloved Messenger Sallallahu Alaihi wa Alehi wa Sallam on his pulpit through his Blessed hadiths
The Prophet peace and blessings upon him and his family has more right over us then that, this principle is built into the Islam of Ahlus Sunnah. Qiyas is only required for areas which are not clarified by Quran, Sunnah or Ijma
I’ll show an example of what i believe is another example of Salafi tampering. The movement which says it follows the Companions Radiallahu anh is actually refuting some Islamic principles. Our Ummah has always been Tabarruk hungry, like dribbling from the mouth hungry, say eww if you want but that is the truth and I am gearing myself to be Tabarruk hungry. Here is Ibn Umar RA seeking Tabaruk from places that RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Alehi wa Sallam prayed at:
""It is related from 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to stop at Dhu’l-Hulayfa when he performed* 'umra or hajj under an acacia tree at the spot where the mosque is located at Dhu’l-Hulayfa. When he returned from an expedition or was coming from hajj or 'umra and was on that road, he came down along the riverbed and emerged from it and would make his camel kneel at the dip which is on the eastern side of the riverbed. He stayed there until morning, not at the mosque which is by the rocks nor on the hill with the mosque on it. There was a water channel there, where 'Abdullah prayed, with sand heaps in it. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to pray there. The floodwater drove the pebbles down until the place where 'Abdullah used to pray was buried.
‘Abdullah related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, prayed at the site of the small mosque which is below the mosque at the hill at ar-Rawha’. 'Abdullah knew the place where the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had prayed. He said, “It is on your right when you are standing in prayer in the mosque.” That mosque is on the right hand side of the road when you are going to Makka, a stone’s throw or thereabouts from the largest mosque.
Ibn ‘Umar used to pray towards the small mountain which is at the end of ar-Rawha’. That mountain ends at the side of the road near the mosque, between it and al-Munsaraf when you are going to Makka. A mosque was built there. 'Abdullah did not pray in that mosque. He left it to his left and behind him. He prayed in front of it towards the mountain itself. ‘Abdullah came back from ar-Rawha’ and did not pray Dhuhr until he came to that place where he prayed. If he was coming from Makka and passed by it an hour before Subh or at the end of the night, he stopped until he could pray Subh there.
'Abdullah related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to alight under a large thornless tree below ar-Ruwaytha on the right hand side of the road, facing the road in a wide level place and go on until he emerged from the small hill about two miles below the road of ar-Ruwaytha. The top of it is broken and inclines inward. It stands on a flat place where there are many sand-dunes.
'Abdullah related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, prayed at the end of the upper part of the valley behind al-'Arj if you are on the way to Hadba. There are two or three graves at that mosque, on which are piles of stones, to the right of the path at the large stones marking the path. 'Abdullah used to return home from al-'Arj after the sun had declined from midday. He would pray Dhuhr in that mosque.
'Abdullah ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, alighted at the thornless trees at the left of the road in the river bed below Harsha. That slope joined the foot of Harsha about a bows-shot from the road. 'Abdullah used to pray at the thornless tree which was nearest the road. It was the tallest of them.
'Abdullah ibn 'Umar related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to alight at the slope which was closer to Marr az-Zahran towards Madina where it descends from the small valleys. He would alight on the flat of that slope to the left of the road when you are going to Makka. There is only a stone’s throw between where the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, alighted and the road.
'Abdullah ibn 'Umar related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, used to alight at Dhu Tuwa and spent the night there until morning when he would pray Subh when he was going to Makka. The place where the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, prayed was a great mound which is not inside the mosque which was built there, but is lower down.
'Abdullah related that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, faced the two gaps in the mountain between him and the tall mountain towards the Ka’ba. He put the mosque that was built to the left of the mosque at the end of the mound. The place where the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, prayed was lower than it, on the black mound located ten cubits or thereabouts from the other mound. He prayed there facing the two gaps in the mountain between him and the Ka’ba. “”
…and if you say this can not be translated then we will have to look at possibility of us having lost Islam
By hiding this aspect of Islam they can deny some softer aspects of Islam, and to propagate a hardline religion in its place targeting the English speaking Layman. In my opinion their summary of the matter is:* the one who goes there to worship Allaah and draw closer to Him should be denounced (ibn uthaymeen)
*
…and they derive their inspiration from Ibn Taymiyah who said as quoted by Islamqa :
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to visiting mosques in Makkah apart from al-Masjid al-Haraam, such as the mosque that is at the foot of al-Safa or the mosque on the slope of Mount Abu Qabees and other mosques that were built in places where the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions went, there is no evidence for that in the Sunnah, and none of the imams encouraged that. Rather what is prescribed is to go to al-Masjid al-Haraam in particular, and to visit places where rituals of Hajj are done, such as ‘Arafah, Muzdalifah, al-Safa and al-Marwah. Similarly, it is not part of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to visit any of the mountains and sites around Makkah apart from the sites of ‘Arafah, Muzdalifah and Mina, such as Mount Hira’ and the mountain at Mina where it is said that there is qubbat al-fida’ and so on. It is not part of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to visit any of these sites, rather that is an innovation (bid’ah). End quote from Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn Taymiyah (26/144).
And he (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did his fourth ‘Umrah with the Farewell Pilgrimage, and hordes of Muslims performed Hajj with him, and no one stayed behind and did not do Hajj with him expect those whom Allaah willed.
In all of that, neither he nor any of his companions went to the cave of Hira’ or visited it, or any of the other sites around Makkah. There was no worship except in al-Masjid al-Haraam, between al-Safa and al-Marwah, and in Mina, al-Muzdalifah and ‘Arafaat.
Then after he was gone, neither the Rightly-Guided Caliphs nor others among the earlier generations, went to the cave of Hira’ to pray and supplicate there.
It is well known that if this was something prescribed and recommended for which Allaah gives reward, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have known it best of all people, and he would have taught it to his companions, and his companions would have known it better and been more keen to do it than those who came after them. As they did not pay any attention to any such matters, it is known that it is an innovation, which they did not regard as an act of worship and obedience that draws one closer to Allaah, so whoever regards it as an act of worship and obedience that draws one closer to Allaah has followed a path other than their path and has prescribed in Islam something which Allaah has not permitted. End quote from Iqtida’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem, p. 425.
So Ibn Umar Radiallahu Anhu, and the blessings of following the Sunnah (praying where the Master Sallallahu alaihi wa alehi wa sallam prayed) is refuted by the salafiyah and their inspiration ibn taymiyah without anything but their desire to impose themselves.
[QUOTE]
This principle applies to me as well as you, unfortunately the Salafi movement is based on making ordinary Muslims to look as fools. It is very attractive to take your chair (and stand on it) and judge the people through what you have prepared as a humiliation for them,** by means of making new rules (such as Hadith authentication), definitions (such as Bidah)** and manhajs (a watered down (easier to follow) version of the religion of Najdiyah movement.)
[/QUOTE]
You do realize Hadith authentication is not anything new. You can read the book Muqadimmah Ibn Salah to confirm this. He was a Shafi. Do you know how many positions the Hanbalis and Shafis have rejected of the Hanafis by declaring their Hadith weak?
And the word Bidah has been used and defined by Nawawi in his book Sharah Muslim. Again you do realize that he was a Shafi and not Salafi right?
Firstly, that W. Wright book is a real gem ... I like it. Secondly, I have realised that I have no idea where to start in trying to translate the sentence myself without inflections. Lastly, let's come back to the meaning ...
There exists no one after the Prophet (PBUH), except a portion of (or from) his saying will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet (PBUH)
You gave this before ... with previous explanations above you and I were saying the same thing ... So here you are saying ... Every person after the prophet (SAW) will have something taken from his sayings which will be rejected ... Except for the prophet (SAW) ...???
This does not make sense to me ...** The except for the prophet (SAW) part makes no sense since the prophet (SAW) cannot be after himself**, also that saying that everyone is deficient ... Which is true ... But it has no bearing on the topic of Taqlid. If it is meant to suggest that people will accept some things and reject other things ... Then I can quite earnestly say the Sahabah didn't reject anything ... So it can't be that either. I am truly confused with the meaning this collection of words is trying to present.
That is the part which refers to his sayings and deeds which have been transmitted to us. That is why it is said except the Prophet (PBUH). He (PBUH) may not be after himself but his (sayings) are. Note: ** except a portion of (or from) his saying will be taken and rejected except for the Prophet (PBUH). **The Arabs do not repeat a word again in a sentence when it is related to a previous one. Hence, when it is said a portion of his saying will be taken and rejected except (the saying) of the Prophet (PBUH). Again, I did not insert this into the translation as those with little knowledge would accuse me of tampering with the Arabic text which is a common allegation on the Salafis and since people think I am a payroll promoting their ideas - which is quite an accusation if you ask me - I thought it would be better to leave the words as literal as possible.
And as a note their is also an ellipses of his sayings after it will be rejected. While it is written يؤخذ من قوله ويترك it will be understood as يؤخذ من قوله ويترك من قوله
Once you go through W.Wright and other books you will realize this Hazaf and then it will all make sense to you.
Second, have a read about what he says about the funeral prayer in the Mosque
وأجاب** النوويبأن الحديث ضعيف تفرد به صالح مولى التوأمة **وهو ضعيف
And Nawawi has answered by that this Hadith (which is used as support by the Hanafis and that one who prays in the mosque the funeral prayer is not valid0 is weak because it has only been narrated by one **صالح مولى التوأمة and he is weak.
The Hadith under discussion is
**من صلى على جنازة في المسجد فليس له شيء
]He who prays on the Janazah in the mosque, then there is nothing for him.**
Now then, was Nawawi a Salafi? He just declared a Hadith weak. How is this some new rule the Salafis have made up?
Now lets see what Ibn Hibban - you do know he wasn’t a Salaif right - said about this Hadith
ابن حبان في
** "الضعفاء " ( 1 / 366 ) :
" و هذا خبر باطل
كيف يخبر المصطفى صلى الله عليه وسلم أن المصلي في الجنازة لا شيء له من الأجر
ثم يصلي هو صلى الله عليه وسلم على سهيل ابن البيضاء في المسجد ? " !!
** And this Khabar is Batil. How is it possible that Mustafa (PBUH) informs that the he who prays in the Janazah has no reward and then he (PBUH) prays over Saheel Ibn Al-albaidaa in the mosque? [Duaafa page 366 volume 1]
Now that is two scholars, not Salafi, declaring Hadith weak. Since when did declaring Hadith weak and rejejcting views based on that become an invention of the Salafis?
Now here is a surprising news flash. Sheikh Al-albani, who you hate sooooo much, actually graded this Hadith Hasan despite the fact that it is used by the Hanafis as a source for not allowing praying the funeral prayer in the Mosque .
Had he had some agenda like you suspect all Salafis of having, he wouldn’t have done what he did.
Finally, I have read several of your posts in other threads and I suggest you hold of on the Taburrak for now and ponder over the following Verse of the Quran
O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, ** some assumption is sin*. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.[49:12]
*
Finally, if we get into this blame game and who tampers with what then I too can accuse the website alahazarat of tampering with text. This website states
Hafidhh Ibn Kathir writes:
“Imam Qurtubi writes: The angels present the actions of the Ummah to the Prophet [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] every single day. This is not correct, but the truth is that the actions of the Ummah are presented not every day but every Friday. [Tafsir Ibn Kathir Surah Al-Nisa’a under verse 41]”
Apparently they do not know how to translate. Here is the full text in Ibn Katheer. (click for the book online)
وأما ما ذكره أبو عبد الله القرطبي في " التذكرة " حيث قال : باب ما جاء في شهادة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم على أمته : قال : أخبرنا ابن المبارك ، أخبرنا رجل من الأنصار ، عن المنهال بن عمرو ، حدثه أنه سمع سعيد بن المسيب يقول : ليس من يوم إلا تعرض على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أمته غدوة وعشية ، فيعرفهم بأسمائهم وأعمالهم ، فلذلك يشهد عليهم ، يقول الله تعالى : ( فكيف إذا جئنا من كل أمة بشهيد وجئنا بك على هؤلاء شهيدا ) فإنه أثر ، وفيه انقطاع ، فإن فيه رجلا مبهما لم يسم ، وهو من كلام سعيد بن المسيب لم يرفعه . وقد قبله القرطبي فقال بعد إيراده : قد تقدم ] أن الأعمال تعرض على الله كل يوم اثنين وخميس ، وعلى الأنبياء والآباء والأمهات يوم الجمعة . قال : ولا تعارض ، فإنه يحتمل أن يخص نبينا بما يعرض عليه كل يوم ، ويوم الجمعة مع الأنبياء ، عليهم السلام.
*And as for that which Qurtubi has mentioned in Al-tazkira where he said The chapter of what has come regarding the witnessing of the Prophet (PBUH) over his Ummah. He said Ibn Mubbarak informed us that a man from the Ansar informed us on the authority of المنهال بن عمرو who heard سعيد بن المسيب saying There is not a day except that the (actions) of the Ummah are laid open before the Prophet (PBUH) morning and evening. Then he recognizes them by means of their names and deeds and because of that he bears witness over them. Allah says ‘And how when we bring from every Ummah a Shaheed and we bring you over these as a witness.’
For it is a narration and in it is Inqitaa’ because there is a man in it who is obscure because he is not named. And this is from the Kalaam (saying) of سعيد بن المسيب . And Qurtubi has accepted it and said after citing it.
It has passed (been mentioned previously) that the deeds are laid open before Allah every Monday and Thursday and before the Prophets and fathers and mothers every friday. He said, there is no Ta’aarad (conflict), For it is possible that our Prophet (PBUH) is special in respect to that which is laid open before him every day and on the day of Friday along with the Prophets.*
Is is clear he didn’t say “this is not correct” anywhere in that. He said it was a Munqati’ narration and thus from the saying of سعيد بن المسيب
So tampering from the Bralwis?
See why this blame game is so dangerous and needs to stop from all corners.
By the way wvroom also note how Ibn Kathir (who was not a Salafi) verified the Narration which reached him. So ponder over your statement in which you accused the Salafis of inventing this new rule!
I have some more questions ... because the sentence does not make sense as it currently is being presented. You said earlier that the meaning is apparent and easy and now you are putting in to it so much of external understanding. Even if I fully understood it - I would ask you "who or what is doing the taking and doing the leaving"? Because even that is not clear ...
What if the first Alif-Laam-Laam - is not "illa" but "An-La" - It would explain the apparent lack of the khabaru laysa and do away with the double illa ... (except). Can you also check if the second illa is really after the verb and not before it?
The problem with the Salafi manhaj is that is too onerous and grinds everything to a halt … the default position is skepticism and distrust … not all people can source their own evidences and not all people can understand what they have been able to source. It is for this reason that ulema are here.
In your post number 55 of this thread there is a statement that actually favours taqlid …
**You are more knowledgeable than me in respect to Hadith and its chain of narrators so when a Hadith is Authentic then inform me of it whichever thing it may be Basari or Kufi or Shami so that I may go toward it when it be Authentic.
**Here the statement “then inform me of it” is the trust that the narrator of this is giving to his respected counterpart. In other words his form of verification of the authenticity is not to do the actual work - but to trust in the work undertaken by the “expert” to tell him what is or is not authentic.
I have some more questions ... because the sentence does not make sense as it currently is being presented. You said earlier that the meaning is apparent and easy and now you are putting in to it so much of external understanding. Even if I fully understood it - I would ask you "who or what is doing the taking and doing the leaving"? Because even that is not clear ...
What if the first Alif-Laam-Laam - is not "illa" but "An-La" - It would explain the apparent lack of the khabaru laysa and do away with the double illa ... (except). Can you also check if the second illa is really after the verb and not before it?
If you think that illa could mean alla then you really need to first learn how Arabic is written before you even attempt grammer. The hamza under the first alif is a dead give away that it is illa. I don't see how I can help you if you continue to miss such basics.
And I suggest you get your teacher friend to help you with that quote since you will.probably trust.him more than you will trust me. As for who is doing the taking and leaving do revise passive voice verbs. They are used when a subject is not named because of its lack of importance to the sentence. The main purpose of the quote is to show how it is important not to blindly accept everything. I know you won't accept this even after these quotes but hey, I really don't have anything to lose!
The problem with the Salafi manhaj is that is too onerous and grinds everything to a halt ... the default position is skepticism and distrust ... not all people can source their own evidences and not all people can understand what they have been able to source. It is for this reason that ulema are here.
In your post number 55 of this thread there is a statement that actually favours taqlid ...
**You are more knowledgeable than me in respect to Hadith and its chain of narrators so when a Hadith is Authentic then inform me of it whichever thing it may be Basari or Kufi or Shami so that I may go toward it when it be Authentic.
**Here the statement "then inform me of it" is the trust that the narrator of this is giving to his respected counterpart. In other words his form of verification of the authenticity is not to do the actual work - but to trust in the work undertaken by the "expert" to tell him what is or is not authentic.
If the Salafi Ulema can give reference for every one of their verdicts then it only follows that the ulema of other schools start giving their evidences. And in this digital age with scanned copies of all books it is very easy to do. You can't be labelled an Alim unless you know your evidences. The only person who would hide evidences is one who knows they are to weak to present or has no clue about them. Even in darse Nizami when they teach you there are references in some books like Hidayah. Best the students memorize these if they want to call themselves scholars.