Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

As I mentioned above, there is no way (IN MY OPINION) that God would give eternal punishment because he is a loving God. I don’t know why you had to bring “fair” or “unfair” into this, but do you really think it’s unfair for people who are NOT your religion to get eternal punishment? Would you really be happy with this? I know I wouldn’t. No one deserves eternal punishment. Look at the guy in the below video, he does not follow your religion, but do you think he deserves eternal punishment?

You can’t compare tests to eternal punishment.

Human beings can be brainwashed to believe the religion of their parents in early age. It doesn’t make any sense for a loving God to give anyone eternal punishment just because they don’t follow a certain religion.

Again, it doesn’t make sense to punish anyone eternally for any reason whatsoever.

Now that science has started answering a lot of questions we had in the past, it is not necessary for one to follow any religion.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

How can we bring our opinion, when God Himself has given His opinion?

That was just an example. I think it’s fair if you’ve been shown the true guidance (Islam), and you still reject it. As for those who haven’t heard of Islam, then Allah will judge them in whatever way is fit for them..

I wouldn’t know. Has he been presented with Islam or not?
Yes, he is in a state that no one wants to be in and may Allah save us from it. But isn’t he still a slave and creation of Allah? Isn’t he still obligated to believe in Allah?

Again, this was an example. But, you get my point, don’t you?
Life is a test, the after life is the result of this test.

Are you saying I’m brainwashed because I believe in Quran?
1.2 billion people are brainwashed because they believe in Quran?
What about those reverts who accpet Islam by their own will at adulthood with full sanity?

How does it not make sense…when the verse from the Quran are so crystal clear? When God, Allah Himself is saying it to you?

Doesn’t make sense according to who? Your own opinion?
Like I said, what Allah said holds more weight than anything we can come up with.

What does science have to do with following religion?

Islam answered question 1400 years ago that science is discovering just now.

For example:

•The sun and the moon float in an orbit.
•The sun is in motion constantly.
•The earth has layers.
•The skies have laters
•The universe is expanding
•The universe was created out of nothing.
•The universe was in a gaseous, smoky, state before its existence.
•The moon’s light is the derived light, while the light of the sun is from itself
•The sky is well protected
•The mountains are in motion, even though we see it still.
•The underground water cycle.
•The formation of the fetus inside the womb.

It’s all in the Quran which was revealed 1400 years ago to an illiterate man, Prophet Muhammad :saw2:

Sorry, if I sound harsh, that was not intended.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Peace Unos,

There are punishments for disobeying but doing something inadvertently could be forgiven by the Most Merciful Almighty Allah SWT! u hav given an example of a child. Incase of a child with little sense of understanding i do agree with u but what if a adult fully matured person, having good sense of uderstanding what is right and wrong for him disobey? will he be treated same as child? I don't think so. He will be punished as per his conviction. If he mudered then he will punished life time in prison or death penalty.

And u also wrote about love and care so isn't it God's love and care for us that He have given us full permission to do whatever we would like to do till the day of judgement? otherwise, angels are enough which praise Him day and night without committing any sin.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

↑JazakAllah Khair bro.

Also, to add, Allah doesn't need our prayers. He's self sufficient.
It's only us who need to pray to Him, to show our devotion to Him, so we can be rewarded.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

**one MOST important aspect:

Allah is also JUST! where is the justice if Allah puts both the murderer and his victim in Jannat? where is the justice if Allah treats the Obedient and the Disobedient in a similar way by putting both in Jannat? where is the justice if Allah shows his love and places Hitler and other Tyrants like him ij Jannat?

Uno's twisted understanding defies all the known logic. **

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

JazakAllah Khair. Indeed, He is the Best Judge and Most Just.

As for eternal hell, I wasn't even going there, but the discussion led me there.
Why would anyone even want to go to hell for a temporary time? Isn't that bad enough for us to face the fire for such and such time?

We should strive to go directly to Jannah. These are the ones who have truly succeeded in this dunya.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

The issue is much broader than Pakistanis; and much more common than recent times.

I've been reading a lot of books in the past couple of years concerning many of the greatest Muslim states such as the Ummayid Khalifat, Abbasid Khalifat, Ottoman Khalifat, Taimur-i-leng's state, and the Mughal Empire.

What emerges is how Muslims have lived in societies for nearly 1400 years with a cosmetic layer of religion pasted over a deep pit of sinfulness. If anything, the strong, richer, and more powerful the state ..... the deeper the corruption.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

you created that thread n the 15th,Today we have 18th...See no one is really interested your topic. Even not when you mean it good.

read what queers writes:

"Zarvani Ali sounds like a Sufi saint compared to this one"

D you know zarvan Ali? He is such an extremist, saying we should stay in our country and not mix with non-muslims.

The sad part in that whole story is that 2 women lke the statement of queer.

Or when we are accused of being massively general. Telling us to mind our own buisness. If that was so, we never needed Prophets or Saints. But we needed and this is what mankind forgets. This is a very good Thread, but you can forget a productive discussion. Mind your own Business. As we say.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

I don't agree that this is a generalisation. If anything, to say everyone in Pakistan is a good Muslim would be a mass generalisation because nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree with the OP that ours is a nation that has generally gone astray (myself included). The vast majority of Pakistanis do not even fulfil the five pillars of Islam. I know the OP sounds preachy but it is good to have reminders once in a while, he is only fulfilling his duty as a Muslim.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Well, we did go off topic for a bit. I was here to talk about the situation in Pakistan. But, since this is a sensitive matter, I guess people tend to stay away from it. If they read it, they might feel guilty, esp. if they’re from the ones those mentioned in the first post.

I’m sorry, if this is offensive to anyone, but all I can do is try. Try my best to show my brothers and sisters in Islam what’s right and what’s wrong. The guidance only comes from Allah, I can only convey the message.

:insh: more people will read it and reflect upon it and mend their ways.

This world is only a temporary place, we never know when our time can come to leave this dunya. And nobody wants to die in a state where their scale of gunnah is heavier than sawab. Who wants to stand on that Day in front of his/her Lord and wish that they had done more in this world to please Allah, follow His commands, and worship Him?

Allah has given us so much that we barely acknowledge. Yet, we still keep on neglecting His commands and the message of Nabi :saw2: When will we learn?

May Allah Ta’aala guide us to the Straight Path and forgive us for our sins.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Why is it that people associate righteousness or religiousness with specific societies or cultures? Wearing a pair of Levis won't make me any less Muslim than donning a shuttlecock burqa. Islam does not equal Pakistani or Arab lifestyles (and more often than not is quite opposed to the dominant practices).

Can't we stop blaming others for our own moral, ethical, social and political dilemmas?

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Peace Nene23,

Every society or culture have their own traditions which comes right unders the law of their religion. On the day of Judgement, The matter which is count most is how much a person was righteousness and religiousness by following all prescribed laws written in the Book Holy Qur’an and/or in Hadith (as taught by our Prophet Muhammad :saw2: ), Wearing a posh dress won’t gonna increase our good deeds in fact what will be use of such good deeds if our dress codes are not as prescribed. Its like copying some others tradition and mixing it in our society or culture and then blaming others just for sake of such freedom.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

↑JazakAllah Khair brother.

I think you took it wrongly. I wasn't blaming anyone in particular.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Typical of religion. Trying to SCARE people into following medieval norms. What a scam.

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How can you say this when pretty much all of the population of this world is following some sort of religion?
All of these people can't be wrong.

Anyways, may Allah guide you.

Can you please not disrespect other religions even if you don't believe in any?

It seems you think that billions and billions of people in this world are "brainwashed" and you, somehow, are not.

As for mercy, He's merciful to those who believe in Him.

Just know that really soon you're going to be standing in His court and then on that Day you won't have any excuse, nor anywhere to run or hide. This might seem like a fairy tale to you, but it's my responsibility to give you this message. No hard feelings, yeah?

May Allah guide you before it's too late.

If you have nothing constructive to say, then you can leave the thread.

You're gonna wish you were a Muslim the moment you leave this world. Guaranteed.
There's still time, though.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

fascinating thread. really! amazing how intense you guys are about these things. couple of you wrote about God expecting certain clothing to be worn by women. Question: if it is mandatory why doesn't He/She simply make people born with the right clothing?

Alright - so He/She expects human beings to come to that conclusion by themselves, kind of as a a test, as a agin somebody has mentioned.

So that would mean humans are expected to use their intellect *and not blindly follow. Because if you blindly follow, you are cheating in God's test aren't you? **so how does this reconcile with your statement of not having our own opinions and must only follow Gods?

And then again, what is God really testing? He/She made the souls, so how can you blame the soul and not the God that made it?

the whole thing makes no sense

you also say this somehow has something to do with Pakistan's current sad state. *But don't you see that the sad state (assuming you mean all the bombing and terrorist violence) seems to be emerging fro, people who claim to be clerics and mullahs and stricter followers than the general public? how come such stricter followers do not know that killing is a sin?

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Don’t you think you’re using an over-the-top example by expecting people to be born fully dressed?

No, not by themselves (meaning, you do not use your own assumptions to come to conclusion). You come to the conclusion by examining what Allah and His Messenger :saw2: has said.

Use their intellect to understand Allah’s laws, not make up your own rulings. You can’t have your own opinion, when Allah has giving His.

Allah is testing who follows His commands and obeys Him and worships him. That’s the main goal of this life - to worship Allah, alone.

How can you blame Allah since He had given us the clear method, the Quran and the Sunnah of Messenger of Allah :saw2:, to attain Paradise. This is our manual.

If there was no guidance sent to mankind, then it would be unfair.

I hope it makes sense now. If something is unclear, go ahead and ask, please.

Well, that’s part of it. But, I was more pointing to the sad state of people themselves (take a look at the bullet points on 1st post).

Don’t judge Islam by what these crazy lunatics do. Islam is against killing of innocent people. These people have distorted the meaning of Islam - they are not stricter followers, they’re not following Islam. I have no idea why in the world they do this in the name of Islam. Beats me.

Allah knows best.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

I'm not threatening, nor did I mean to.
I'm just doing my job of making you aware of the Truth. The rest is up to you for yourself to decide.

edited

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

Walekum assalam

Koi baat nahi… everyone is young once, and threads like these are expected.

Not really. 40,000 come out on a single days notice to ensure that a woman who they believe insulted Islam is killed, and to celebrate the killing of a govt official who supported that woman publicly. Every other day someone or the other blows himself and many others up, believing that is an act in furtherance of Islam. Hardly seems like we’ve got disinterested in religion.

So what beautiful traditions would you like to see more of on tv? There are specialty channels for Islamic material.. i assume you dont mean those. Obviously non-Islamic channels will cast a wider net for inspiration. While I agree, the Indian part of it is regrettable and should definitely be addressed, whats the harm in getting inspired by western ideas. The beauty of the thing is, you can always switch over to the Islamic channel like Qtv etc.

There is no known Muslim conception of ‘cool’. The closest we can get to the middle east is the Yoruba who have a notion of mystic cool. But that might involve wearing masks of coolness and all that sorta stuff, a lot of hassle.

Times change. Lets remember that before Zia movies and tv would show people drinking and clubbing. So it isnt exactly a linear progression.

Agreed, they shouldnt be like bollywood actresses.

Why are you spending so much time looking at clean shaven men in tight jeans dude. Be cool.

Thanks to beyonce and other western influences lowering the gaze is no longer a guarantee of virtuous behaviour. Perhaps that is the explanation.

WHERE WAS THIS PAKISTAN WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE?? :confused:

Like what?

Well why dont you begin with yourself? Clearly ‘we’ includes you too, otherwise you would say why are ‘you’ not praying 5 times. So you should start by praying 5 times and doing hijab/lowering your gaze.

Did you actually try this out yourself? Be honest.

Ameen.

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Re: Sad State of Affairs Pakistanis

It is the age of deception. What is right is wrong and whats wrong is right. So dont worry what the clever people say OP, just keep on doing your thing.