Maybe noor factor. Muslims have more noor. With Christmas time they will have more premium. They think they are doing what Christian missionaries do to poor people of other religions.
BBC News - Indian Agra Muslim fear conversions to Hinduism Good news is the Hindu extreme guy is taken in for questioning and the Muslim who helped collect these people are also taken for questioning.
Recently 13 hrs ago any planned conversions on Christmas are now banned. With Christian conversions i think they want to get back at Sonia Gandhi
somebody played somebody here - may be the hindu group tried to bait and switch the 57 muslim families, or the 57 muslim families baited and switched the hindu group. facts need to emerge after investigation, right now we have he said she said.
It is quite nonsensical for people to try and equate this to forced conversion atrocities of Pakistan - where young baby girls are abducted and married of to muslims - if you don't see the complete difference, you have to be blind deaf and dumb.
It is equally nonsensical to somehow construe this as groups 'feeling' empowered because Modi is PM. These things happened before Modi getting elected, actually more.
Frankly I find the Modi government playing LESS religious politics than Congress and its crony parties used to do (and still do).
Referring Modi as butcher of Gujarat is unjustified - all authorities have exonerated him but those who have made up their mind simply call all investigations an eye wash or under pressure - meaning they will only be satisfied if such investigation convicts him! Is that called an investigation or witch hunt?
I don't know if they are babies but i think adolescents is more likely the age. Samir we must also respect the emotions of others. Calling people who disagree as blind, dead and dumb does nothing for your arguments and reflect badly. Muqa bhai is a supporter of Sindhi Hindus and he supports them to have rights like Hindu marriage act. So we should appreciate people like him.
I don't know about babies getting married but i know there is the story of 12 yr old girls. As to which is worse forced conversions by marriage or forced conversions by poverty will depend on perspective, gender and the person. Both equally wrong if forced.
I don't know if they are babies but i think adolescents is more likely the age. Samir we must also respect the emotions of others. Calling people who disagree as blind, dead and dumb does nothing for your arguments and reflect badly. Muqa bhai is a supporter of Sindhi Hindus and he supports them to have rights like Hindu marriage act. So we should appreciate people like him.
I don't know about babies getting married but i know there is the story of 12 yr old girls. As to which is worse forced conversions by marriage or forced conversions by poverty will depend on perspective, gender and the person. Both equally wrong if forced.
a. child abduction, forced marriages,
b. speech
If somebody equates a and b, they have to be bdd. On top of that if they do not admit they made a mistake and cavalierly dismiss the stark difference, it is either obstinacy or something more sinister than that.
But I agree that everyone's emotions must be respected - I hope that includes not just that of the perpetrators and their sympathizers but also the victims and those trying to help them?
the sindh abductions/conversions may or may not be the same in trauma as RSS' bullying and hoodwinking conversions. but why should this matter? what is wrong is wrong. i'm not sindhi or pakistani. i dont see why as an indian i should leap off the bridge if pakistanis leap off a bridge - why argue over my bridge is only 25 feet, his is 30 feet?
the top one. it isnt something particularly new. RSS khakhi chaddiwalas have been doing this for nearly 100 years now all over india with kids in weekend clubs called "shaakhas".
Given its history, its ideological orientation, and the nature of the social movements it relies on for core support, this is not surprising. The BJP is the successor organization of the Janasangh, a party founded in 1950 by members of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) or Association of National Volunteers, a proto-fascist Hindu nationalist, paramilitary-type (khaki shorts/white shirts) organization founded in 1925 and modeled after Mussolini/Hitler/Franco black/brown/blue-shirt outfits. (RSS co-founder B S Moonje met Mussolini in Rome in 1931 and subsequently structured the RSS on the lines of the Fascist Academy of Physical Education.)
The tactics of the right wing are predictable. They assign the following labels to those who don't conform:
Self loathing
Accommodating the other side
And yes - even conformist. (In their twisted mind, if a person does not agree with EVERYTHING the right wing in his country stands for, he or she is a conformist - conforming with the rational and honest people is a big no-no with that crowd.
the top one. it isnt something particularly new. RSS khakhi chaddiwalas have been doing this for nearly 100 years now all over india with kids in weekend clubs called "shaakhas".
Interesting...didnt realize RSS that managed to penetrate NE India too :)
There are literally hundreds of schools that the Hindu organizations that you Pakistanis (and wannabe such as Southie!) love to hate run in the Northeast, educating children. After coming across that story recently I spoke with some people in the NYC volunteer federation of Indian origin people and they knew about these - looks like the syllabus is quite good and comparable to Indian and international standards - though they do suffer from the usual shortage of resourced. We have to do something about that. May be you guys can contribute ?
As to immature comparisons to Nazis - that is plain stupid but as long as Southi says what Med911 likes and Med911 likes what Southie says, who cares! Go ahead and call children nazis, is what you are doing!
Standard Tactics Of Right Wing. In this case from India.
Anyone who disagrees with him is a "wannabe Pakistqni"
Despicable thinking. But not far from the thinking process of the media whose lies such right wing nuts "conform" to.
stop sulking, I'm sure someone will come around and give you some likes soon.
since you are posting in the thread it'd be useful to hear if you have anything to say on the topic - for example somebody has posted a picture of school children and called them nazis. All you are whining about is how there is a global right wing and media conspiracy to come here and shame you,
Request to all: please hit like on Mr.Southie's posts asap; he is a fair minded daniel come to judgement victimized by Modi's right wingers, Reagan's wingnuts and the entire fourth estate
Do you agree with this kind of ‘conversion’ by fooling people?
I am not talking about voluntary or informed conversion which is not the case here.
AGRA: In a controversial ceremony, Bajrang Dal and Dharam Jagran Samanvay Vibhagh, an offshoot of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), converted over 200 people from 57 Muslim families into Hinduism. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is the ideological mentor of the ruling-BJP.
The ceremony saw chanting of priests while the converts, wearing skull caps, performed havan (offering in fire). After the ceremony, vermilion dots were applied on their foreheads. Saffron flags were proudly displayed at the event.
The groups that performed the mass conversions claim that the families were originally Hindu and converted to Islam around 30 years ago.
“About 30 years ago, their forefathers had converted to Islam. Now they realise their interests are protected by Hindu religion so they have returned,” said Ajju Chauhan, a Bajrang Dal activist.
Some of the converts, picked from a colony of rag-pickers, claimed that they had been lured with incentives like a ration card and other cards that would entitle them to subsidized welfare schemes.
“We were told we will get ration card, Aadhar card, the police will not bother us. We are poor so what do we do?” said one of the converts.
**Others like Sufia Begum got emotional and said, “Please forgive me and let us remain Muslims.” **
**However, the groups, which undertook the conversion ceremony, remain undaunted. **
“Come to Aligarh on 25th, both Christians and Muslims will be converted under Adityanath’s blessings,” said Rajeshwar Singh, area chief of the Dharam Jagran Samanvay Vibhagh.
The episode, which has come after days of protests revolving around the ‘hate speech’ of Union Minister Sadhvi Niranjan Jyoti, has provided the opposition with fresh ammunition. Parliament is scheduled to debate on the rising cases of communal tension on December 17.
BSP chief Mayawati has said that these events were being organised by communal forces and that her party was against it. Rajiv Shukla of the Congress said that this was being done keeping in mind the Uttar Pradesh Assembly polls in 2017.
No, I don’t agree with any conversions that involve any fooling of people. Further I support prosecution of those that are involved in such fooling. Obviously I am vehemently against forced conversions as well.
That was easy, hope I understood your question fully and correctly?
No, I don't agree with any conversions that involve any fooling of people.Further I support prosecution of those that are involved in such fooling. Obviously I am vehemently against forced conversions as well.
That was easy, hope I understood your question fully and correctly?
So you would agree that those who did this should be prosecuted, right?
So you would agree that those who did this should be prosecuted, right?
I am the one that said prosecute them - so why are you asking me if I agree with it?
by due process - investigation, evidence of intent to defraud, trial, etc.
I am the one that said prosecute them - so why are you asking me if I agree with it?
by due process - investigation, evidence of intent to defraud, trial, etc.
You do realize the defrauder could be either side
Got it. Thanks.
Yes, defrauder could be on either side too.
But you have to admit there is a plan to convert Muslims and Christians back to Hinduism and different tactics are being used for it.
The ceremony was a fraud where a Hindu Priest announced those Muslims to become Hindus.
Naturally there would be condemnation and criticism as anyone can see.
But you have to admit there is a plan to convert Muslims and Christians back to Hinduism and different tactics are being used for it.
The ceremony was a fraud where a Hindu Priest announced those Muslims to become Hindus.
Naturally there would be condemnation and criticism as anyone can see.
Got it. Thanks.
Yes, defrauder could be on either side too.
But you have to admit there is a plan to convert Muslims and Christians back to Hinduism and different tactics are being used for it.
The ceremony was a fraud where a Hindu Priest announced those Muslims to become Hindus.
Naturally there would be condemnation and criticism as anyone can see.
There is scope to take your question up a notch, hope you don't mind if I do.
I think ALL religions conversions happen, even historically, with motives and with tactics. Some cases we know of for example are:
* bunch of priests get together with the warrior ruler (or gain control over the ruler) and this combine unleash cruelty (could be subjugation, 2nd class treatment etc) on a subsection of the population (usually different in some respect such as ethnicity, origin, language etc). At some point this differentiation gains the sanction of the priests' religion. The subjugated people when they gain a voice (a charismatic leader, an external ally, an internal conscientious objector etc) then convert to a religion where they believe they won't be 2nd class
a people are invaded by external force and conquered; the external force unleashes tyranny and treat those that don't convert to torture (force) or 2nd class citizenry (pressure) or long term modification (preferential inheritance ...) etc
priests develop difference of opinions (or theological difference of opinion) and branch away, taking followers; over time the philosophical differentiation morphs into different Gods and religions (probably to simplify for the sake of the masses who cannot otherwise appreciate philosophic reasoning)
Bottom line, there is always motive and there are always tactics.