Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

I sorta agree that the current bunch of mullahs we have are corrupt just like rest of the politicians/brigadiers, they received great support from army.

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they don't have any real support among the people of pakistan.
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I can't really agree, they do have some support, they may not have support in the proportion we are told that they have but there is sizeable population that supports Islamists (including the extremist Islamists).

Now the question is what can be done to avoid such circumstances in future? how to curb the 'extremism' (not necessarily Islamism)?

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Nothing can be done to curb the islamic extremism as long as the army is calling shots in Pak. As we have seen that the army may have captured some al qaeda terrorists, and that too under the immense pressure of the us government, but it did nothing to subvert the Taleban. Army is the real patronage of these fanatics, get rid of the army first if people want to get rid of these fanatics.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

this is what happens when confused pakistanis bend over for saudi arabs and the ilk.

what's the matter with pakistanis wanting to be more arab?

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Well, unfortunately army is untouchable, lets think of options other than that. If (a big if) a civilian rule is restored, what can they do to curb the extremism?

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Be a bit more realistic and serious. Advising any nation to 'get rid of its army' is out right treason and next a call for civil war or enemy agression or selling your nation to foreign mercy...the army's issues may be one thing, but you cant be this irresponsible...

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

I am not sure if he meant 'removal' or 'dismantling' of army, I took that comment as 'no army interference in civilian matters'.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Chief Justice is responsible for all this and his lawyers, the same way, they were held responsible for clashes in karachi. If they have not gained public support and an edge in high court,.......

The hunger for power and "ta-hayat qayadat" is the root cause.

It was quite shamefull that almost entire media prefered to cover this issue over the trial of the chief justice of Pakistan that is in a crucial stage.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

  1. Deal with these religious zealots as you deal with normal criminals.
  2. Close all religious seminaries, they have become the breeding ground for jehadis.
  3. The religious education should be provided in the governmnet schools, thus the government can control the syllabus and stop mullahs from indoctrinating the innocent minds.
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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

The questions I have are:

Why did the government not act against these thugs before

Why now, is it because dictator is facing a humiliating defeat in the court?

I support his move against Lal Masjid but it has not made any difference to my opposition to his misrule, because even here, as usual, he tried to play politics for his own benefitl.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

tyeah we knew after a brief pause ppl will start goignon these trangents, its okay.

mayeb some day ppl will see real faces of the thekay daar of jamhuriaat just like today they may begin to see the real faces of thekay daars of islam.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Is it tangent, big coincidence don't you think, the day after his humiliation at the court the military action is launched when the problem had been festering for months now and he just sat on his ass and did nothing. Poor defence of an indefensible position.

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

so are you saying that how the govt handled this in the last 36 hours is incorrect?
I dont care if the timing coincides with whatever. all I am concerned with is whether the right thign is done. so far I dont see any real argument that it could have been handled any better.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

I have already said that I support his action, however one also has to see his timing and motivation for taking the action **now. **Please do let me know as to why he did not take the action before and why did it become imperative to take this action the day after his humiliation in the court. A coincidence, don't think so, well planned selfish move on his part which once again proves that he puts his own interests before that of the country.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

nyah probably not a coincidence, but I dont really care. I am more interested in action and outcome and I have no issue with it so far.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

To understand Mush you must answer this question

Do you know the difference between having a wise man in charge and an incompetent?

The incompetent will make the exact same decision a wise man would, but the difference is the incompetent takes longer and causes more of a mess in the process.

If you understand that answer you understand virtually every "right" act Musharraf has taken

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Going back to the topic - it's not just an isolated problem. Neither, there's one facet to it. There are extremists on both end of the spectrum as you may have noticed through comments by some of the members on this board. Anyone that with-holds hardened and unbending view of an ideology and vehemently support the complete destruction of someone with different set of values / religion is an extremist - period.

Anyone devoid of fundamental interpretation of an ideology on which actions / thoughts are based upon, is the root cause of degeneration specifically amongst Muslims..

2 Likes
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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

abdullah

how do you suggest criminals like ghazi biradaraan be treated?

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

well, first we must ask, who's religion's honor they were trying to defend - Allah's. How much recognition do they have of Him in their hearts, only Allah knows, but judging from their actions, probably not much.

Looking at the corroded and despicable state of affairs in Pakistan, neither, do I care what fate is served to them. If one person gets due punishment, there are hundreds and thousands others that are denied justice in the courts of law.

Although, the real court awaits in the heirafter, and only the Creator knows what' he has destined for them...this is the manifested truth that will never alter.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

Education obviously is the key and by that I don't mean just formal education - look at the people 7 doctors and 1 lab technician arrested so far in connection with the failed car bomb blasts in London and Glasgow - but good schooling and parental upbringing (I mean violence just never crosses my mind) and a good understanding of the basics of Islam.

I think central to this problem of extremism is a twisted understanding of the true meaning of Jehad. Most of these extremists and jehadis wrongly believe that jehad is all about guns, bombing places and shedding blood without a care or thought for innocent people who may die as a result of their actions. They just want to create havoc and civil disruption and spread disorder and disloyalty in the name of Islam. Their hatred warps their judgement. So the first thing that should happen is a fundamental review of the teaching about Jehad in madrassahs and schools across the country. Children and teenagers should be taught that a revolution or change (religious or political) should always be sought thru peaceful means and intelligent debate.

Can the speech of God change no hearts? can it bring about no change in the world except with the help of the sword?

In Islam it is a sin to try and convert a people through fear or favor. Infact Islam is the first religion which lays down the principle of freedom in religious matters in clear and unambiguous terms.

'There shall be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong.'(Al-Baqarah, 257)

According to Islam, every human individual is free to believe or not to believe. He is free to follow reason.

'And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.' (Al-Baqarah, 191)

A religious war is to be waged against those who make war on Muslims because of religion, who seek by force to convert Muslims. Even in such a war Islam forbids the transgression of limits. If non-Muslims seeking to convert Muslims by force withdraw from such an attempt, then Muslims must stop fighting.

In a nutshell a religious war is not permitted by Islam unless it is against a people who force Muslims to abjure Islam.

But even when permitted, a religious war is not intended to force a people to give up their faith, nor is its purpose to desecrate or destroy places of worship, or to kill. The purpose of religious wars is to protect religion, to protect every religion, and to save from disgrace and destruction all places of worship, irrespective of the denomination to which they belong. Only such a religious war is permitted by Islam.

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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)

well our judicial system needs a major overhaul, getting justice is tough in the country, took us 11 years in 70's 80's to get rid of squatters in a rental property.

but some justice is better than none, and like u I hope and pray that pakistan becomes a more just and law abiding place, and it has to be done at all levels.