Now that the drama of Lal Masjid is close to being over, please share your point of view why and how these maulanas were able to convince sort of big size of people that this is best thing to do, what can be done to avoid these incidents/‘events’ from happening in future. I am sure most of you remember “Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi” in NWFP where his ‘followers’ took over some area to ‘enforce’ sharia on the local population, there was standoff then similar drama.
There has to be something more than just ‘desire to implement Islam’.
My view is that such elements will gain more momentum and support if lawlessness stays on decline, if corruption stays on rise (military used to have some respect 25 years ago which started to decline in Zia era, now military cannot be trusted either). People want security, people want necessities of life to be accessible… ‘democracy’, ‘dictatorship’, ‘pseudo-democracy’ have all failed to provide that.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
How did they convince the people to join them?
Easy. Many people in Pakistan are uneducated, jihal, and need a sense of belonging and these idiots came along and they decided to join them.
** How do we avoid this in the future?**
Easy. By making sure that these Imams are not preaching hate, intolerance and militancy. By making sure that these Madrassas teach other subjects other than Islam so that the student body is not brainwashed.
Why did this happen?
Mostly because these guys were pissed at the government's secularism and decided to take action and used girls as cover so that the military won't crack down on them.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Easy. Many people in Pakistan are uneducated, jihal, and need a sense of belonging and these idiots came along and they decided to join them.
Being uneducated is not the only thing you need to join such idiots, 'religion' card is very important one. Unfortunately it doesn't require a whole lot to be called 'religious leader' now adays.
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Easy. By making sure that these Imams are not preaching hate, intolerance and militancy. By making sure that these Madrassas teach other subjects other than Islam so that the student body is not brainwashed.
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Nope, by trying to control the syllabus and Friday sermons Pakistan will turn into Saudi Arabia/Egypt, in my opinion these are failed countries, we should not follow failed system.
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Mostly because these guys were pissed at the government's secularism and decided to take action and used girls as cover so that the military won't crack down on them.
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They are not pissed only at government's "secularism", there are many many reasons to be pissed at government, the biggest of reasons is 'bending over for America'.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Now that the drama of Lal Masjid is close to being over, please share your point of view why and how these maulanas were able to convince sort of big size of people that this is best thing to do,
Why not? You know anything about Pakistan?
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what can be done to avoid these incidents/'events' from happening in future.
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What do you think is lacking in current setup in the first place?
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I am sure most of you remember "Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi" in NWFP where his 'followers' took over some area to 'enforce' sharia on the local population, there was standoff then similar drama.
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No we don't.
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There has to be something more than just 'desire to implement Islam'.
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Why shouldn't their desire to implement their system of governance subordinate to other "desires"? Aren't they citizens of a free country?
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My view is that such elements will gain more momentum and support if lawlessness stays on decline, if corruption stays on rise (military used to have some respect 25 years ago which started to decline in Zia era, now military cannot be trusted either). People want security, people want necessities of life to be accessible.... 'democracy', 'dictatorship', 'pseudo-democracy' have all failed to provide that.
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Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
i think its because pakistan encouraged extremism for two decades, now we cant trust anyone.
the answer is to push extremism out of the picture, so we can trust everyone.
with extremism out of the picture, is a pro islam agenda a bad thing?
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Why not? You know anything about Pakistan?
May be you can prove otherwise.
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What do you think is lacking in current setup in the first place?
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Law enforcement, justice system, equality of citizens etc.
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No we don't.
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May be you can read up on that.
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Why shouldn't their desire to implement their system of governance subordinate to other "desires"? Aren't they citizens of a free country?
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They can have desire to "implement" while 'elected' but not desire to 'enforce' without 'mandate'.... see the difference?
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Your view has no basis in reality.
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While you may think what you want, but I am very convinced of my views as being real.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
no
mr fraudia i'd like your view on exactly when (how quickly) the government orders all brothels to be found and shut. this was part of the LM campaign but the reality is they were right on this issue. i know pakistan has limited resources but is it right for pakistan to turn a blind eye to 'wrongs'?
lal masjid have left many questions of state direction
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
this was part of the LM campaign but the reality is they were right on this issue
Whether LM mullahs were right or not "massage parlor prostitution" they had no right to 'save those prostitutes', if they were so dying to save them they could've done it peacefully rather than trying to create their own state within state.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Interesting angle for discussion Captain.
I think you're right about the various root causes that stir unrest and then movements of one sort or another.
When people are socially, economically as well as spiritually unhappy and unsatisfied, they want change and that through any means and they start following whatever captures their attn as per their mind frame.
All movements start that way. Unfortunately in Pakistan (not unlike many other 3rd or even 1st world countries) the people are emotionally, financially and even spiritually starved. There are huge issues with politics, representation, governments, policies, law and order, roti, kapra, makaan etc and people are always unsatisfied in every aspect. Some follow extremist thoughts in governance, some follow extremisms in liberalism, some follow extremism in institutional powers and some follow extremism in religion under the impression that the ultimate answers lie in following their school of thought and bringing abt change or revolting. Unfortunately in Pakistan we've always got all such problems and a lot of people start following one movement or another. the Mosque and madressa is the most common institution in our society accessible to all and abundant as well as appealing and often compulsory. Hence large portion of society adapts the jihadi mind frame when desiring change and struggle. The spirit of Jihad and religious schooling and mosque and madressah was lost in translation over centuries and mixed up with political gains etc. Unfortunately at this moment all and various issues had been boiling together and creating complete social unrest with the lal masjid ideology revolting in their way, lawyers revolting in their way, and many other willing to revolting their way. it may seem they're all united against a common enemy but even that's not true. It's confusion and emotion. Education and literacy and moral and spiritual healing may be an answer to a nation's issues to start with.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
mr fraudia i'd like your view on exactly when (how quickly) the government orders all brothels to be found and shut. this was part of the LM campaign but the reality is they were right on this issue. i know pakistan has limited resources but is it right for pakistan to turn a blind eye to 'wrongs'?
lal masjid have left many questions of state direction
lal masjid had no issue with any of that until civil authorities raised the issue of these gusy taking over property illegally. lal masjid losers at that point decided to come up with some populist issues to divert the attention. that is all that it was.
lets just say not all brothels are shut in NWFP which has been in MMA mullagh control, and during zia's islamization period heera madi in lahore and napier road, sohrab goth and lee market in karachi were doing brisk business.
why dont I see mullahs raise slogans about tax cheats? why does their thinking only start and stop at tits and ass?
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
The jihad that army has started in Jalalabad has reached islamabad, why are people surprised? The GHQ has become the real menace to the national sovereignty...mullahs, islamists and jihadis are merely playing the role of pawn in this evil game, the main culprits are the army generals...
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
The jihad that army has started in Jalalabad has reached islamabad, why are people surprised? The GHQ has become the real menace to the national sovereignty...mullahs, islamists and jihadis are merely playing the role of pawn in this evil game, the main culprits are the army generals...
Well, army has all its flaws and needs to be blamed for the actions, but then again why did 'mullahs' become the 'pawn'? Do they not know the 'evil'?
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
very good topic captain, in a country where the MMA rule a 1/4 of the country and are still considered/are extremists by many, then the future looks bleak.
a bumpy ride instore for pakistan
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Well, army has all its flaws and needs to be blamed for the actions, but then again why did 'mullahs' become the 'pawn'? Do they not know the 'evil'?
yara, mullahs are themselves evil and opportunists and they know that without the patronage of the army they are nothing, they don't have any real support among the people of pakistan.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
As we know how the MMA has come to power in the frontier and Balochestan. They could never form government in these two provindes had the military dictator not rigged the elctions.
Re: Root cause analysis: Why it happened? (Lal Masjid)
Interesting angle for discussion Captain.
Thank you.
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I think you're right about the various root causes that stir unrest and then movements of one sort or another.
When people are socially, economically as well as spiritually unhappy and unsatisfied, they want change and that through any means and they start following whatever captures their attn as per their mind frame.
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Very true, ever since Russian invasion of Afghanistan, 'jihad' has been promoted at all levels which is okay, but letting the arm reach every tom dick and harry was one of the worst things. Now all jihad-dreamers have so much ammunition/weapons at their disposal that they think they can create their own state using that.
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It's confusion and emotion. Education and literacy and moral and spiritual healing may be an answer to a nation's issues to start with.
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I agree, the only 'silver-lining' in all this I see is that people are willing to do something for 'good', all they need is good leader, proper education and guidance.